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Posted: 12/12/2013 3:25 PM
Post subject: Maui Mallard
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Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
I didn’t know about the existence of the Genesis version of Maui Mallard until yesterday, when feos suggested me to take a look at it. The first thing I noticed is that there are only PAL versions of the game on the GoodGen 3.00 set, the one I have here, but one of the members of Sega-16 Forums posted something about an NTSC version, also known as TecToy version. TecToy manufactures the Brazilian Mega Drive console, and since there’s no longer a preference for NTSC/USA games, I’m really excited to TAS the Brazilian version of Maui Mallard. TV Tropes Org says that there are a few things on the Brazilian version that are missing on the European version, so I think it will be a plus too. Anyways, I’m still getting the hang of the game, so it will take a while for me to have something to show, and until then, if you know any tricks or glitches for the Genesis version, please let me know, thank you.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/12/2013 3:37 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
http://www.gamefaqs.com/genesis/586143-donald-in-maui-mallard/cheats Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/12/2013 3:46 PM
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Dark_Noob
He/Him
Experienced player (813)
Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 319
Location: Brazil
Funny TAS of 2012
WoW I didn't know that had this game for Sega Genesis,is one of the best games that I played,the first level is nice and is same game of SNES,but more fast,I hope to you can do a great TAS Dooty,this is a great game maybe the tricks/glitches is the same of SNES see the SNES movie maybe can help-you.
Someone who still enjoy playing fighting games ;)
Posted: 12/12/2013 5:06 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
I don't know anything about Brazilian version. I don't know why Europe version is slow. This game is pretty straightforward. I don't think there is many routes. I know only one little bug, I always abuse it in runs: if you fast sit/stand while fire, you will shoot faster. And one tip: don't pick golden bar to skip bonus level. Hmm, and another one: in first level there is some rotating things(I don't know how to call it), that you need to stop, and jump on them. But in TAS, probably, you can jump with rotation turned on. But it may be requires some manipulation... While ninja, to run: A+>> Transform while holding down - may be faster? I don't know. Now, I think, it's all I know.
Posted: 12/12/2013 5:43 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Thank you, guys. looks like I'll have to play the European version after all; the supposed Brazilian version is just a translated hack, oh, well...
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/12/2013 5:45 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
In debug mode you can observe maps. Didn't try it myself, but may be dumping maps for this game sometime.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/13/2013 3:00 PM
Quote
Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
I was wrong, the Brazilian version is not a hack; http://www.sega-brasil.com.br/Tectoy/index.php?title=Donald_in_Maui_Mallard It was not even translated to Portuguese, mind you. anyways, I'm doing a test run on the European version in the meantime; http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11294322600107176
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/13/2013 4:21 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
Great! Do you realy need last bottle before boss? It is kind of secret bottle. It's not easy to get it. So, did you try to jump from one tube right to another?
Posted: 12/13/2013 6:11 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Bottle? Umm... I'll have to check it out, but I do need more lightning bugs for sure to finish the boss faster. (oh, and thank you for the "crouch and shoot" trick, it is a lot faster than just shoot.) the tubes, man those tubes seems so close and yet I was not able reach them in succession.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/13/2013 7:28 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
It is simpler than NOT SKIP :S
Posted: 12/13/2013 8:22 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Oh, there, I don't need the punch (drink), the tube in the middle is one of the tubes I was not able to reach, but okay, I'll try it, thank you :)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/13/2013 9:31 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
I remembered one nice trick http://elektropage.ru/r57shell/donald_trick.zip jump + shoot to make "wrap" no frame precise, just example. ROM: (E)[!] gens rerecording 11a used. gmv with save state. to watch, save files must be compatible. And, just to mention. In third part of volcano level, there is shortcut Hmm and, try to hit hooks from opposite side than you need to jump.
Posted: 12/14/2013 12:31 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
I just tried to make volcano level. http://elektropage.ru/r57shell/donald_itshot.zip not frame precise again :). Just test New observations: 1) When you stand and get hit, animation is long, so you can jump before someone hit you, then you get hit and land. control returned. 2) there is several states when you on hook. First - right after hit hook. You can see it by animation frames. To jump at some state, you need press jump before first frame with sprite in state needed. (at least in gens rerecording 11a) 3) in ninja mode you can skip full hit animation if you jump right after hit. (this I have use with boss) 4) you can fast change direction on hook: just jump in second state, and hit hook again from other side. 5) under certain circumstances you can run, just by A+> instead of A+>> (need more investigation) I think, it is somehow depends with input before landing. 6) v+B with ninja, may be faster if you stand up after hit, and sit down again - I don't know. 7) you can hold A to transform ninja while walk. Nothing special, but I didn't think about it 8) in muddrak city shaman resize animation can be skipped if you get hit. Useful in end of second part. I don't know how to beat boss fast. Ah! Assuming that you will have there 100 hp instead of 300, I tried to keep HP greater than 200. EDIT: another one replay http://elektropage.ru/r57shell/donald_weird_collision.zip in ninja mode A in air has some weird behavior. normally you can't jump on that platform from below. using this glitch, you can!
Posted: 12/14/2013 3:50 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Thank you, r57shell! I'm not at home at the moment, but I downloaded your files and will watch it later. by the by, I'm really close to the Brazilian version now, the rom's name is - Donald in Maui Mallard (Brazil) a friend said that in this version you can take damage on the water in the first stage without dying, much like in the SNES version, so that part will be a lot faster too.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/14/2013 3:54 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Is it a hack? Good set doesn't seem to have it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/14/2013 3:58 PM
Quote
Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
----------------------------------- sorry. edit; Tested it and it's a true 60hz game, so no, it's not just a hack of the European version, it's the real deal!
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/14/2013 6:05 PM
Quote
r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
I have made script to change side on hook, and here is test http://elektropage.ru/r57shell/donald_hook_change_side.zip and watches Hope it helps. Hmmm interesting! I have found many differences in version you call "Brazilian". Most expensive difference, that RAM map not same. I don't want to write list of differences, but some of them realy expensive for romhacker. EDIT: script updated. One line commented, if it does not work, uncomment it.
Posted: 12/15/2013 2:03 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
Here we go. Differences list: http://pastebin.com/0Xu7JDTf by me. And, what I can say about it. Only 3 thing from list I like: 1) Hints 2) Frog camera move 3) Flying duckman boss animation All other - dislike. Here is some watches and script for brazil version http://elektropage.ru/r57shell/donald_brazil_lua_wch.zip
Posted: 12/16/2013 4:28 PM
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Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
You beat me to it, but here; The Brazilian version is a lot easier to play in real time, but TASwise it is, sadly, a lot worse; * Some actions causes more lag * When you land from a jump your speed drops to zero * On the water, the damage animation is longer than waiting for the platforms to appear So, despite my excitement to TAS the Brazilian version, there’s no way to make it faster than the European one. But when I was playing the Brazilian version I found a new trick, so it was not a total disappointment; Donald can fall through the elevator’s floor if he hits the edge of a platform one frame before he lands on it. @ r57shell; Man, lots of cool stuff you found! I managed to use some of them so far, but I’m kind of playing the game for the first time, so if you think I could’ve used them more, please let me know. Also, no matter how optimized a strategy is, if you’re going in the wrong direction it is worth nothing. So, I’d like to ask you if you want to join me in this project as a partner, don’t worry if you don’t have any TAS experience, just play a stage using whatever tricks and routes you think are the fastest then send it to me to optimize. I’ll then send it back to you to play the next stage and so on. I think we could achieve better results working together. Please, think about it.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/16/2013 6:08 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
Dooty wrote:
* When you land from a jump your speed drops to zero
Added into list :) More about Brazil version. It's date November 1996. So it was one year after (E) [!] version. But there is info that Brazil version released in 1995. But, in ROM header marked version 00. Something strange. I have tested PC version: Donald starring in Cold Shadow. It's date 1996 year, and it is almost equal to Brazil version on genesis. (only PC graphics & music quality and changed password for Debug Mode). I interpret this as two version of Donald starring in Maui Mallard: 1995, and 1996 years :). And may be developers of SNES version lay hands on 1996 version.
Dooty wrote:
So, despite my excitement to TAS the Brazilian version, there’s no way to make it faster than the European one.
There is 60/50 speed multiplier in time, but in frames, there's no way definetely.
Dooty wrote:
Donald can fall through the elevator’s floor if he hits the edge of a platform one frame before he lands on it.
Great! I have found it too when I tied to test zero speed when you land. And I have found one interesting thing, if you shoot right after jump - you will jump higher than normaly. But, as I see it is not higher than high jump (holding C). This was found while autoshot C key was turned on.
Dooty wrote:
I think we could achieve better results working together. Please, think about it.
I can make it, but I think we need optimize all routes to achieve best results.
Posted: 12/16/2013 8:03 PM
Quote
Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
Nice, we're a team! here's my last progress, the rum will be restarted then; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1882003112/Dooty-MauiMallard.gmv edit; I forgot to mention, but you can fall through the spikes of stage 2 as well with the elevator's trick, but I can't find a use for it.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/16/2013 8:25 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
Dooty wrote:
here's my last progress, the rum will be restarted then;
Hmm, completely same file as previous. We need to choose version. And, what you need from me now?
Posted: 12/17/2013 3:09 AM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
http://elektropage.ru/r57shell/Donald_in_Maui_Mallard-E-.gmv My attempt to first level. It's worse, but you can think about other routes/tricks. And it shows new stuff. (elevator trick, and tubes jump) About tubes jump: you need to land on tube with such sprite If you do so, then you will jump higher. It can be usefull at least in two places. I think, you can select other sprites to reach different jump height.
Posted: 12/17/2013 1:09 PM
Quote
Dooty
Expert player (2466)
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sega TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2012 SNES TASer of 2010
r57shell wrote:
Dooty wrote:
here's my last progress, the rum will be restarted then;
Hmm, completely same file as previous. We need to choose version. And, what you need from me now?
Sorry, my bad. Here's the file with the fall through spikes; http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1520150638/Dooty-MauiMallard.gmv We will take turns, you beat a stage and send it to me, I'll optimize it and send it to back to you. Doing that we can avoid mistakes, like me going in the wrong direction :) We'll use the European version for this run. I saw you already did a stage, so I'll optimize it now, and that's it.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Posted: 12/17/2013 1:38 PM
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r57shell
Player (98)
Joined: 12/12/2013
Posts: 378
Location: Russia
Stop, I think we need more planning. I didn't think that routing there so difficult. Reason: HP. I thought that HP resets to MAXHP in next level. Nope, it's not. And we should take maxhp items into account. So, I think we should make this: 1) HP and MAXHP planning 2) Boss runs tests - to know how many hp you need to spend to kill them as fast as you can. 3) Various scripts: enemy & yours bound boxes, hp. Hooks marking system would be nice too. (mark state for jump) Hmm!! good Idea, we can draw marks in level :). 4) Investigate dmg of different hits. Scripts is very useful when you rerun from start, because it's realy difficult to remember whole things, and make them every time. I think (1) is very important. More info: there is +50 MAXHP items (bag with plus sign). It increase HP and MAXHP +50 at same time. And there is two restore HP items: punch (drink): +25 HP jug: HP = MAXHP So, for example if we reach 200 MAXHP, we can spend 200 -> 15 then pick up jug and spend almost whole life again. If you want restart run frequently then you can optimize first level :)
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