Post subject: Hyper Princess Pitch 'Reallyjoel's Mom' difficulty
Patashu
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You might recall that Hero Core, by the same dev, has 'Reallyjoel's Dad' difficulty which is possible only for a TAS: Link to video Hyper Princess Pitch also has a similarly absurdly tough secret difficulty, 'Reallyjoel's Mom'. It looks like it would be a challenge to try and beat in TAS. Link to video
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Would it even be possible? Also, Iji also has a reallyjoel's Dad difficulty, and as far as I know, it's impossible to, even with TAS.
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Espyo wrote:
Would it even be possible? Also, Iji also has a reallyjoel's Dad difficulty, and as far as I know, it's impossible to, even with TAS.
Elaborate please?
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As I understand it, there's a shutter you need to open to finish the first mission, and it simply doesn't open on reallyjoel's Dad mode. I assume this is intentional so that the author didn't have to implement an entire game at that difficulty.
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I'm actually trying to see if I can finish this game on "Reallyjoel's Mom difficulty," TASing it on my Windows XP laptop. And I've finished stage 1 already, with no "unlockable shutters" as yet. Although I have no idea if one might appear later on. I can also mention this difficulty is close to impossible to finish outside of TAS. I probably won't make a serious TAS of this myself as the level of optimization you can do in this game is ridiculous high, but at least it'll be a semi-serious TAS playthrough with no damage taken and making all attacks hit (which I kinda botched already, but oh well...). Here's an encode on the first stage to show how ridiculous this game is on the highest difficulty. Crap quality youtube video unfortunately. Maybe I should look into making better encodes again? Or maybe just put up the encode itself on mediafire or something if anyone would want it (though 110 MB for a 3 minute video is a bit much). Link to video
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Tseralith: ah, sorry, I was talking about Iji. I have no idea if Hyper Princess Pitch's realljoel's Dad mode is completable; Iji's very obviously wasn't due to the aforementioned shutter. Good luck with the TAS!
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Tseralith wrote:
I'm actually trying to see if I can finish this game on "Reallyjoel's Mom difficulty," TASing it on my Windows XP laptop. And I've finished stage 1 already, with no "unlockable shutters" as yet. Although I have no idea if one might appear later on. I can also mention this difficulty is close to impossible to finish outside of TAS.
I would love you if you completed a TAS of this game. :) It doesn't matter that much if it's completely optimal, given as you say the very large number of possibilities. It would still be incredibly impressive, since it's only possible to get through 1 or maybe 2 rooms when playing normally. Some things I wonder about: - Isn't it possible to skip the title screen with the escape key? I deleted my .SAV file and it seemed to be possible. - Is it faster to go into the options and turn off the intro before you start, rather than skipping through it? - I realize there are no powerups and ammo refills from the enemies. What about the presents? - How strong are the weapons compared to each other? Is there any point in using the 8 Rainbow and Ice ammo you get from the start? In the Wishlist for Windows topic, the user Billy Johnson claims to have TASed this game up to the final boss. I have tried sending a PM to get the WTF file, but no reply. Post: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=321194#321194 He also said that it was not possible to avoid the final attacks of Mecha Santa and more extra lives are needed. See his picture. It sounds strange to me that it wouldn't be possible to block the shots with piledrivers, but maybe it's true. In a normal game I always use the Goddess Buster on Mecha Santa once he's into his red health desperation, which kills him instantly. However, this move is forbidden in ReallyJoel'sMom difficulty. Unsurprising, given that the idea seems to be to give the player the worst possible deal.
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-Yes, it's possible to skip the title screen, and it actually is faster to turn off the intro compared to pressing escape. I didn't consider it at first, but decided not to do anything about it when I made this playthrough. Although I could just redo the first stage to remove these simple mistakes anyway. -The presents, as far as Stage 1 is concerned, only gives you 1000 score and nothing else. As expected of this difficulty. Could always shoot them with the Rainbow just to get them, though that means less ammo to fight everything else. Speaking of which... -In values: --The Brick does 1 damage and shoots every four frames in a straight line. --The Rainbow does 3 damage and shoots every nine frames in a straight line, ricocheting off any wall twice. --The Ice does 0.5 damage and shoots every two frames as a short-range flamethrower, destroying any simple projectile in its path without being destroyed itself in the process. --Piledriving something into an enemy does 8 damage, while the enemy you piledrive is destroyed. It even works on bigger enemies as well. The Rainbow is useful for strong enemies and enemies beyond normal reach. I'd say bosses are my best target for them unless I need to get rid of any pesky enemy. The Ice is actually quite useful when you fight really weak enemies as it can kill them in one shot, the spinners mainly that I know of. The robot elves has 1 hp unfortunately, so they require two shots. No faster than using Bricks. Or actually a bit slower as I'd have to time in two hits then. Although it could also be useful to clear up projectiles when needed. Of course you have to be careful not to waste any considering you have to go through four/five stages before you fight Mecha Santa. If it's actually true you can't win the fight with Mecha Santa, then I guess there's nothing you can do. But I'll try to reach him and see for myself what makes him so impossible. If it's just specific attacks you can't dodge, then maybe you can manipulate them not to appear, but I'll have to reach him first. Although if it's just a matter of defeating him before he defeats me, I probably should save up on my Rainbow ammo until the end.
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In other words: - Bricks 0.25 damage/frame - Ice 0.30 damage/frame - Rainbow 0.33 damage/frame So Rainbow is the strongest. I thought enemies you piledrived/threw into were destroyed, but I guess I just haven't hit big enough enemies. Looking forward to the rest of this! EDIT: updated Ice damage according to Tseralith's info.
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Thanks for picking this up, Tseralith :) Keep it coming!
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Truncated wrote:
In other words: I thought enemies you piledrived/threw into were destroyed, but I guess I just haven't hit big enough enemies.
Not quite exact. The sled in the third room has 12 hp, so I can't destroy it just by piledriving into it, which is why I had to shoot it a few times first. Of course I could just piledrive the sled itself instead, but it all depends on which is the fastest.
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I've run through the first stage again and improved it by ~46 seconds compared to my last run. 12.5 seconds saved from skipping both the title screen and the intro, and 33.5 seconds from choosing a different path. I've noticed that since this difficulty greatly increases the amount of enemies that spawn, going to rooms which has enemies that always spawn at a fixed rate (like the trains) will take longer to clean up, so I'll have to avoid such rooms. About Mecha Santa, I think I might know why he's "impossible." Given the image Billy Johnson shown us and which attack Mecha Santa is using, he'll throw out full rows of projectiles and if you try to piledrive block them, he'll continue to shoot his Artic Thunder which can't be blocked. I won't know until I finally reach him, but I believe I should be able to use my Ice weapon to remove the projectiles instead. And if I still have to try and kill him before he kills me, I'll actually get an extra life for every stage I finish, the only courtesy the game will give you apart from 8 Ice and Rainbow and full health at the beginning of a new stage. So you'll actually get a total of 3 extra lives before you fight him. A little side discovery that every second time Ice fires, it shoots two projectiles for two frames instead of only one. That should mean it actually does 0.3 damage/frame. So it should be useful for bosses as well. No encode at the moment, but I'll look into making one later on. Here's the .WTF file for anyone who's curious and wish to try and play it back yourself.
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I'm very much looking forward to a TAS of this game!
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>I believe I should be able to use my Ice weapon to remove the projectiles instead. The green spikey projectiles in the picture cannot be removed by the Ice weapon. >A little side discovery that every second time Ice fires, it shoots two projectiles for two frames instead of only one. That should mean it actually does 0.3 damage/frame. If I understand this correctly, Ice shoots 1*0.5 dmg the first 2 frames, and then 2*0.5 dmg the next 2 frames, and then repeats. So that's 1.5 dmg every 4 frames, which is 0,375 damage/frame. Is that correct? That would make it stronger than Rainbow. EDIT: I got it running on Windows 7 even though it was recorded on Windows XP. Very nice! One question: is the piledriver the same length of time as the throw, or shorter/longer? Or does it depend on when you throw the enemy?
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Aw, that's a shame you can't remove those projectiles. Oh well, I'll just have to find another way. The Ice shoots 1*0.5 the first two frames, then 2*0.5 the next three frames, not two. That should be 1.5 damage every 5 frames, which is 0.3 damage/frame. I guess I didn't explain it correctly. If I throw on the first possible frame, it'll take just as long as the piledriver would. Otherwise it'll take longer depending on when I throw them, though throwing them lets me reach enemies I wouldn't reach otherwise. Of course its preferable to piledrive them normally, though sometimes it doesn't really matter when enemies are still spawning after I've cleaned up the room. Speaking of the piledrives, I have to use it a HELLA LOT if I wish to survive at this difficulty, which makes me wonder how entertaining it would be to watch me do hundreds of piledrives over and over. Of course there'll be some variations to the best of my ability, but I believe most rooms will be watching me piledrive enemies for half the game. I've also almost cleared Stage 2. Just the last room before the boss, where I'll have to fight elves which spawns from four different exits for 25 seconds. Fun times!
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Tseralith wrote:
Aw, that's a shame you can't remove those projectiles. Oh well, I'll just have to find another way. The Ice shoots 1*0.5 the first two frames, then 2*0.5 the next three frames, not two. That should be 1.5 damage every 5 frames, which is 0.3 damage/frame. I guess I didn't explain it correctly. If I throw on the first possible frame, it'll take just as long as the piledriver would. Otherwise it'll take longer depending on when I throw them, though throwing them lets me reach enemies I wouldn't reach otherwise. Of course its preferable to piledrive them normally, though sometimes it doesn't really matter when enemies are still spawning after I've cleaned up the room. Speaking of the piledrives, I have to use it a HELLA LOT if I wish to survive at this difficulty, which makes me wonder how entertaining it would be to watch me do hundreds of piledrives over and over. Of course there'll be some variations to the best of my ability, but I believe most rooms will be watching me piledrive enemies for half the game. I've also almost cleared Stage 2. Just the last room before the boss, where I'll have to fight elves which spawns from four different exits for 25 seconds. Fun times!
Thanks for clearing up how the ice works! About the stage 2 boss: after you go one round and new turrets drop down from the sky, it's possible to piledrive the turrets as they come down. I'm not sure if that saves time in itself. But I am thinking, maybe you can throw one of them at the boss? It looks like he just might be in reach. I can't get it to work when playing normally, but perhaps it's possible with TAS precision. I know for a fact that the boss is not invulnerable when he has his spikeball shield up, only just not hittable with normal weapons. (He takes damage if you turn on cheats and use gold bricks.)
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It works! You just grab one of the upper turrets, fly straight down and throw it at the boss doing 8 damage to him. If this actually saves time or not I'll have to time and see. You don't get too many frames to activate your piledrive, so it won't be easy to do real time. The lower turrets seem to be too far away to be used unfortunately. I haven't looked into if I can somehow hide within his ring of spikeballs yet though, but I'll certainly investigate it as well.
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Tseralith wrote:
which makes me wonder how entertaining it would be to watch me do hundreds of piledrives over and over. Of course there'll be some variations to the best of my ability, but I believe most rooms will be watching me piledrive enemies for half the game.
While that might not be quite as entertaining, the mere existence of a full TAS on such a difficulty has its own attractions.
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Tseralith wrote:
It works! You just grab one of the upper turrets, fly straight down and throw it at the boss doing 8 damage to him.
Cool. I know it's possible then, I just have to practice more. :) Looking forward to the next WTF file!
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To be fair, you have to be as far down as possible before you grab them since I'm not sure if this was even intended to be possible. For this TAS I throw them at the last possible frame just so I'll land two frames sooner, but there should be about five frames for you to hit the boss, depending on how far down you can grab the turret that is. You should not go diagonally either since you won't get as far down compared to going straight down. This should save time since it'll take about 64 frames from grabbing to throwing and landing again. That's a total of 20 damage (12 for getting rid of the turret and 8 on the boss) which would've taken ~80 frames from just shooting them normally with Brick... not too much time saved when you consider it, but it's still cool! Speaking of bosses by the way, I don't know how well known it is, but you can actually shoot the elf on the first boss before he moves back behind the cannon, immediately getting rid of that threat with just one shot before the fight even begins. I was considering doing it myself when I fought it, but decided people would rather want to see how nasty the bosses can get on this difficulty than that the elf is killable. I'm also saving 4 frames from not wasting a shot on him as well. :) Stage 2 is finished now as well actually, with loads of piledrives when the situation starts to look grim and some fancy shooting in between. With this stage I also discovered there's actually a cap on how many enemies may be on screen at once. When the cap is reached, more enemies just won't spawn until I kill off some of them. You won't be able to see it here yet as this was something I just discovered when I was messing around. Here's the link to the latest .WTF file for anyone who wish to watch it. I'll really try to see if I can get a decent enough encode for everyone else to watch sometime soon. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11761786865506540 EDIT: Here's a much higher quality encode of the two current stages. Link to video
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The princess says it best -- Awesome!
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Tseralith wrote:
This should save time since it'll take about 64 frames from grabbing to throwing and landing again. That's a total of 20 damage (12 for getting rid of the turret and 8 on the boss) which would've taken ~80 frames from just shooting them normally with Brick... not too much time saved when you consider it, but it's still cool! Stage 2 is finished now as well actually, with loads of piledrives when the situation starts to look grim and some fancy shooting in between. With this stage I also discovered there's actually a cap on how many enemies may be on screen at once. When the cap is reached, more enemies just won't spawn until I kill off some of them. You won't be able to see it here yet as this was something I just discovered when I was messing around. Here's the link to the latest .WTF file for anyone who wish to watch it. I'll really try to see if I can get a decent enough encode for everyone else to watch sometime soon. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11761786865506540
Nice to hear that the idea on the second boss worked out! The movie looks really good. Questions: - It seems you cannot shoot the boss turrets constantly since their green shots block the bricks. Would it be worth it to use some Rainbow ammo to bounce off the walls and kill them quicker? - In the room directly before the boss, there are some explosive barrels. However, you shoot them down before there is any significant amount of enemies, so they don't do you much good. Would it save time to leave them standing, so they could take down some enemies save them for later to kill more enemies with their explosions? On another note, the game locks up in Hourglass if I try to use savestates, so I have to watch it from the beginning every time. :/
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I couldn't find any maps online, so I went ahead and made some myself. As you can see they are extremely professional and well-made, and not at all thrown together in Paint with copy paste. Anyway, as you probably already know, all paths are equidistant (same number of rooms), so it's all about choosing the fastest rooms. Also the maps are pretty trivial, except for Stage 4 where the map wraps. Stage 1: http://postimg.org/image/48amtfmyr/ Stage 2: http://postimg.org/image/x8cwk4kkh/ Stage 3: http://postimg.org/image/yoof29nhd/ Stage X: http://postimg.org/image/xyt9ointh/ Stage 4: http://postimg.org/image/xno6d56ht/ EDIT: Updated Stage 1.
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I'm a little unsure how generous I should be with the Rainbow considering it might or might not be decisive for the final fight with Mecha Santa. Were I not to consider about him, it would certainly help out using it for the turrets. Though I would also have to consider the fact that after I shoot with the Rainbow, I won't be able to fire anything else for the next 8 frames. This also means no speed swapping weapons in order to fire the Rainbow more often. For now I feel I'd rather be safe than sorry. The barrels would probably help me out a bit, though I'm not sure how much of a difference it would've made anyway considering the sheer amount of enemies I'll be facing. It could very well make no difference at all short of visual effects, but do you feel it's unprofessional of me not to make use of every little timesaver? ...or actually it could even be faster to remove them since all elves are now nicely gathering around me for me to piledrive them, clearing up bigger groups much faster. I haven't tested with keeping the barrels around, though do you think it's worth trying? I might just end up saving time from minor optimization alone anyway. Anyhow thanks for your professionally made paint maps! :) I've tried to find some myself as well without any luck, so these should help out. And I'll also try to continue with my encodes so you won't have to rewatch the .WTF file all the time, but I understand you'd probably want to take a closer look at what's happening in this mayhem. Personally I've not had any problems with playing back my files nor with savestates, so it might be because of Windows 7 who's not cooperating. Just so I'll know for sure, I've been intending to do the Secret Santa stage in order to get the best ending since I feel a difficulty like this deserves that kind of ending. So I wish to check if people would approve of this detour for the best ending category?
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Patashu
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"Reallyjoel's Mom difficulty, best ending" sounds like a fine tag to me.
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