Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I thought about what a modern any% route would look like and made one in my head, with little or no testing. So enjoy, I guess. :D It would be cool if you could correct mistakes or give suggestions. Legend (of Zelda): ss = super swim rss = regular super slide r = rupees in wallet r-b = rupees in bank b = bombs c = bombchus cycle 1: - skip text and flower at dead Deku - pause buffer past bipolar mask salesman - reset - make it night of 3rd day - collect fairy - collect 99r from 3-4 fields and bushes in nct - get magic - put the rupees in the bank (99r-b) - collect 99R from 2nd trip through field - put them in the bank (198r-b) - finish cycle cycle 2: - play sodt as soon as the cycle starts * - get soh - hit owl - withdraw 99r (99r) (99r-b) - buy bomb bag and 10 chus (20b 10c) (9r) - recoil flip past guard (19b 10c) - get isg, hiss to fence, hover over and explode it for slide (18b 8c) - hiss to Mikau (16b 8c) - hiss off leaver to owl, hit it, then explode it with chu, SS to sgb (16b 7c) - SS off leaver to zora owl, grab bomb drop, hit owl, explode it with chu, SS to second highest platform (20b 6c) - do snowhead triple hover strat over (17b 5c) ** - explode rocks (17b 4c) - double bomb thingy to pillar (15b 4c) - 3 chu hovers, 1 mega hover, 1 megaflip (13b 0c) - get isg, hiss with bomb over your head through drop-gras to owl, rss past owl (16b) *** - hiss to swamp warp (15b) **** - get isg, hiss through woods, pick up 10r form bushes on the way (14b) (19r) - get red, down A slide past big octo (12b) - triple staircase into deku palace map (9b) - hiss through palace (8b) (20r) - hover to monkey room (7b) - learn soa - learn sos - get to woodfall owl with megaflip of enemy start - get stick, nuts and activate owl - play soa and sos to ct to skip cs - get bremer mask - dupe over sticks, nuts and bremer mask, sell red (99r) - buy 20c 10b (17b 20c) (0r) - sos to ngb - explode owl, ss to pf (17b 19c) - ss, then snowhead strat hover over (13b 19c) ***** - hiss to hookshot room (13b 18c) - long jump to tank, shoot nest, get 1st egg and hookshot (12b 18c) - recoil flip thingy to second egg room, get second egg (11b 18c) - get third egg - do pirate skip to third egg, get it, sos to ngb (7b 16c) - deposit eggs, leave and get out bomb, get bomb drop, ss off bomb to pinnacle (11b 16c) - js-ss to pinnacle, collect eggs, oob out, js-ss back to observatory - deposit eggs, nwbn- collecting- cs- skip via sos to sgb - get bomb drop, nwbn cs skip via pause buffer into zora hall (16b 16c) - get bomb drop, throw jug with fairy, hookshot up, catch fairy [duped or not duped bottle actually doesn't matter], stop time, skip pirates cs (20b 16c) - enter gbt, BK skip, defeat Gyorg (19b 16c) - sos to woodfall, get stick back (maybe nuts?) - make your way to bow with hookshot - BK skip, kill Odolwa [hookshot or arrow in his direction to save bomb] (12b 9c) - make your way to the FF (12b 9c [guesstimation]) - FFWW to SH (8b 5c) - glb skip (5b 5c) - bomb drop from icycle (10b 5c) - recoil flip over in bridge room (9b 5c) - weirdshot to fairy chest (9b 4c) - get to wizrobe and get fire arrows (9b 2c) - do the original SH hover strat (6b 1c) - store sot (6b 0c) - hover gap, BK skip (3b) - kill ghot, get mask, trigger sot, reset (0b 0c) (0r) (99r-b) * If you were to play it at the same spot the old TAS did, you would be at the curiosity shop at approximately a little before 10:30pm, so at the right time. But that is cutting it rather close, should you save time elsewhere, and since japanese can't skip the Mikau walking CS with it, why take the risk? Also you have the ocarina on C anyway. ** This should work (in this many explosives), but it's untested. When I refer to this strat I mean this: http://youtu.be/L1RrLvJ4qsA?t=1h3m59s *** drop might not be getable with bomb over links head because of the position of the swords hitbox. Would need to be tested, bomb might need to be thrown. **** Here a SS with zora mask might be better now that there are less explosives to go around ***** There is a CS skip at the beginning of PF, but I do not know if it's worth it / how many explosives it would take, since I couldn't find the vid. The SH triple hover strat should work that way. Might need one explosive more or one less. I am not sure. :D Notes: - You could replace 1-2 chus in SH with bombs and use these chus in woodfall to get to the FF, if needed. - Afaik you need at least 97r to buy 10b 20b (thanks venick409 for the information) if there is some way to get that down, that might save a little time. Ideas that should work, to save a chu in the first part where they are scarce: - To enter GB with a chu slide + triple staircase (2 hovers 1 megaflip -> iss) might be a better idea. Would save two chus. - Throw a bomb onto a pillar in the FF to save a chu for the hover. Throwing a bomb up there works without a problem, I've tested it. If you have enough time before it explodes to get up there and turn around, I don't know. But it should work if you do the following: Do what Grunz did here http://youtu.be/L1RrLvJ4qsA?t=30m27s , but delay for ~ 5 seconds. Once you are on the ring surrounding the fountain, throw a bomb to the pillar. Delaying 5s at the beginnign should give you enough time to throw the bomb, throwing the bomb that long after the first two should give you enough time to get to the pillar, turn aorund and backflip before the third bomb explodes. Crazy unrealistic ideas to save chus in the first part where they are scarce: - To enter GB get isg and hiss off a bomb, hold one bomb over your head while sliding, manipulate a leaver so you can do two hovers off it, megaflip -> iss off the now exploding bomb into GB - Since there is now a way to grab the second highest platform in sgb out of a zora jump, maybe that is somehow also possible with the highest one? That would save a lot of explosives. cycle 3: - withdraw 99r (99r) (0r-b) - buy 20c and 10b (10b 20c) (0r) - hiss to st (10b 19c) - first gap (7b 17c) - second gap (4b 14c) - get arrows near owl (should be faster here, since you need to wait for the bomb to explode) - go around 3rd gap, like old tas (3b 11c) - little slide inside stt (3b 10c) - sun block clip (3b 9c) - in room with 3 sunblocks a-slide, convert into weirdshot and hookshot the crate (3b 8c) - weirdshot to flame chest (3b 7c) - kill Garo Master with fire arrows, then kill yourself [Link should be at 1/2 heart at this point] (3b 7c) - invert st with weird shot or the acute angle clip, whatever is faster (3b 6c) - store sot - in istt use a slide, then jump over the gap (3b 4c) - BK skip (0b 1c) - fire an extra chu at twinmold - kill twinmold with fire an normal arrows - trigger sot, get mask, save, reset Note: - In this first darf I used the explosives that Link bought as much as possible, without getting an extra drop. However, there are quite a few chu usuages in there, where a bomb might be as fast or only slightly slower. So it might be advantagous to get 1-2 extra bomb drops (1 when getting arrows and one from the fake goron enemy thingys) and use the chus for speed trick, and maybe even 1-2 for killing twinmold faster - For arrow drops a combination of a drop form a keese while climbing the tower (thx mmFruit for the suggestion) and the 10-drop in the room with the 3 sun block could also work. cycle 4: - Go into termina field, to the nearest bushes, get 2 bomb drops (10b) - a-slide off the blob to the dekubaba, while holding a bomb over your head, get deku stick from baba (9b) - a-slide back to ct - hiss to clockt tower, with bomb over your head to recoil flip on (7b) - triple staircase + 1 hover into the tower (will need some forewards backflips) (3b) - a-slide to stallkid (2b) - kill all majoras forms - done Super-Note: Splitting cycle 2 into two cycles might be faster. We don't know yet. This would be the route if it isn't.
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
So a few little things for the future people: First I made 100% Bizhawk Savestates for every MM version. Should help for testing and small tases (once tasing from savestates is fixed). https://mega.co.nz/#!XYgWnaKY!DdQqCFGUa75t4qhc0_IFr2h0qmdex7wQApbXlZfIwM8 Then I would like to share my video plugin settings. Glide64 seems to be almost perfect with the right settings. I wouldn't recommend Rice. My Glide64 settings are these: Differences from defaults: - Activated the "Zelda corona fix" for obvious reasons - Activated motion blur. Without it some cutscenes, like the Zelda and being cursed to be a deku CS mess up. - Deactivated "Disable GLSL combiners". If this option is active magic arrows, zora shield and SoS warp animation mess up. -Deactivated "Disable dithered alpha", because it probably can't hurt. The Per game settings I left on "Use defaults for current game" Things that could be better: - Motion blur could be a little smoother - Deku bubble still messes up. There is a weird reflection of the enviroment in it. If anybody has solutions for these problems it would be great if you'd let me know. But those are really minor things, that basically never happen in the game. So I'd say with this settings a TAS would be good to go.
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Thank you for your extensive research and know that you are not alone. Meaning we all appreciate your hard work.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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I don't know much about the N64, Bizhawk, or Zelda, but normally in computer graphics, "dithered alpha" would mean that if something was semi-transparent, you'd make it semitransparent via alternating between transparent and opaque pixels, rather than via averaging its color with the color of whatever was behind it. At a high resolution, the difference is hard to notice for typical 3D landscapes (although it can be a lot more visible in 2D). It's also quite possible that there simply isn't anything that uses dithered alpha in Majora's Mask anyway, in which case the option would do nothing (or possibly that the parts of the game you played through don't have anything semitransparent in).
Joined: 12/6/2008
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AngerFist wrote:
Thank you for your extensive research and know that you are not alone. Meaning we all appreciate your hard work.
Nah, I'm just derping around. But it's good to hear that some people are interested in the stuff I look up. :) Like I said, I would still like comments on the route, ideas, suggestions, errors spotted. If anybody has one of these things, I'd really like to hear them.
ais523 wrote:
I don't know much about the N64, Bizhawk, or Zelda, but normally in computer graphics, "dithered alpha" would mean that if something was semi-transparent, you'd make it semitransparent via alternating between transparent and opaque pixels, rather than via averaging its color with the color of whatever was behind it. At a high resolution, the difference is hard to notice for typical 3D landscapes (although it can be a lot more visible in 2D). It's also quite possible that there simply isn't anything that uses dithered alpha in Majora's Mask anyway, in which case the option would do nothing (or possibly that the parts of the game you played through don't have anything semitransparent in).
Yeah that's kinda what I gathered from googling, too. Thanks for confirming. I think MM just doesn't use it. Lens of truth, water and magic arrows all have transparency and all work without "dithered alpha" enabled. But I guess it can't hurt to have that option unchecked too. It doesn't seem to make any difference, even to speed, so I changed my last post in that regard. What sadly makes a huge dent into emulation speed it seems, is unchecking the "Disable GLSL combiners" option (so enabling them), but without them quite a few things aren't displayed correctly, so there is nothing that can be done about it. :( But the speed seems to be mostly an issue when water is on the screen and thankfully that isn't the case all too often.
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New glitch found by Indextic to warp to owl statues that haven't been triggered: Link to video
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Pheenoh wrote:
New glitch found by Indextic to warp to owl statues that haven't been triggered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kdZxuCgJ_A
HOLY CRAP THIS IS AMAZING!
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Pheenoh wrote:
New glitch found by Indextic to warp to owl statues that haven't been triggered: Link to video
I almost shit my pants while watching this :O Sucks, that you need to visit Goron Village (--> Stone Tower) and Romani Ranch (--> Snowhead) for 2 of the most useful warps. Both places are not even close to be visited in the old route, but let's see how well we can integrate this trick. It has a shitload of potential for sure. And maybe this even turns out to be damn huge. Let's hope it. It is by far the closest we got to real Wrong Warps in Majora's Mask.
Tompa
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Ennopp, current WR holder, is doing a run with the new glitch atm: http://www.twitch.tv/ennopp112 In case people wish to see it in action.
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The new glitch is going to change the TAS routing quite a bit, our explosive usage is now going to be hugely different too. - We don't have to hover up stone tower - We probably won't get zora mask straight away - This means that we won't be doing the FFWW from great bay to ikana - Most movement from area to area will mainly be song of soaring - We do need to hover over to the hidden owl at the start of 2nd cycle - We still need to do the FFWW from woodfall to snowhead to lullaby skip - Inside dungeons could stay the same We have some potential options to try out, need to time some things and consider different methods of doing stuff. Just a reminder of what the warps are: Cursor position -> song of soaring destination 0) Great Bay -> Great Bay Coast 1) Zora Hall -> Zora Cape 2) Romani Ranch -> Snowhead 3) Deku Palace -> Mountain Village 4) Woodfall -> Clock Town 5) Clock Town -> Milk Road 6) Snowhead -> Woodfall 7) Ikana Graveyard -> Southern Swamp 8) Ikana Canyon -> Ikana Canyon 9) Goron Village -> Stone Tower 10) Stone Tower -> Dungeon Entrance Text (Softlock) We have some options for orders of dungeons with the above combinations, however, we actually need to have been to these areas in order to be able to select them on the map. Potentially, we could use 1st cycle to make our way up to mountain village which would unlock it on the map. If we can get there and back in the time it takes before midnight then great. In reality, I'm not so sure we can go that fast. There is a warp back from snowhead to termina field using the midnight cutscene, however I think using that would waste more time than it would save. I was also considering hookshot and PF skip. With song of time storage we could do 3 trips of pinnacle rock (1 trip for 2 eggs, another trip for 2 eggs, final trip for 3 eggs). Depending on when we want to do eggs in the route, hookshot skip could be a thing because it's only used in dungeons now and each one of those can be replaced with hovers or other strats. Again, it's something that would need to be timed. I think routing this is going to be pretty fun. I'll post more stuff as the route ideas develop I guess
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GlitchesAndStuff wrote:
- We still need to do the FFWW from woodfall to snowhead to lullaby skip
If we have to go to Goron Village anyway, I guess it is faster to go to Snowhead Temple from there. Lullaby Skip doesn't need the WW via one of the Fountains in a TAS, because you can simply HISS up. Going to Romani Ranch could also be an option, but I think the one I mentioned first should be faster.
GlitchesAndStuff wrote:
I was also considering hookshot and PF skip. With song of time storage we could do 3 trips of pinnacle rock (1 trip for 2 eggs, another trip for 2 eggs, final trip for 3 eggs). Depending on when we want to do eggs in the route, hookshot skip could be a thing because it's only used in dungeons now and each one of those can be replaced with hovers or other strats. Again, it's something that would need to be timed. I think routing this is going to be pretty fun. I'll post more stuff as the route ideas develop I guess
This sounds pretty slow. Hookshot still saves quite a bit of time inside of Snowhead Temple (Weirdshot to the Fairy Chest etc.) and Stone Tower Temple (Weirdshots in the Mirror and Updraft Rooms). Other than that, Pinnacle Rock doesn't even sound really that much faster than Pirate's Fortress for a TAS. PF took 4:45 and Pinnacle Rock 2:20. Doing Pinnacle Rock twice would be slightly faster than PF, but if you add in the time it takes to recreate the eggs in Pinnacle and the time Hookshot saves, doing PF should be way faster.
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One thing I can see for exploration is seeing if the R button ever leads anywhere, because it seemingly sends you to a different soft lock each time, and if that will ever not send you to a softlock.
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MrGrunz wrote:
PF took 4:45 and Pinnacle Rock 2:20. Doing Pinnacle Rock twice would be slightly faster than PF, but if you add in the time it takes to recreate the eggs in Pinnacle and the time Hookshot saves, doing PF should be way faster.
There has been a clip which makes pinnacle quicker but you're still probably right about that. I just really like the idea of skipping hookshot and PF :D And about lullaby skip: the new TAS would be on JP obviously and on JP when the wind pushes you against an edge you lose all your speed. We would need to start a new HISS/superslide each time the wind stopped blowing if we wanted to do it that way. Also, getting to mountain village to unlock that section of the map won't take that long because we can just soar there via the deku palace map spot which we'd already have by that point in the run.
sack_bot wrote:
One thing I can see for exploration is seeing if the R button ever leads anywhere, because it seemingly sends you to a different soft lock each time, and if that will ever not send you to a softlock.
It seems to be writing values to weird places, but those places seem to be in areas which we already can write to with BA. Nothing useful yet but we can keep hoping.
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GlitchesAndStuff wrote:
the new TAS would be on JP obviously
Uh, isn't this ntsc-u only?
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..
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So like GnS already said there is consideration what we could do in cycle 1. An alternative to going to goron city might be to get SoS. So that would be: - get magic - activate romani ranch by going to milk road - get SoS - cutscene death warp back to CT. If there isn't enough time, we could skip activating romani and do that in cycle 2. Ofcourse there is an upside and a downside to this. Upside: We can soar around the moment we start cycle 2. Downside: Mountain Village and Goron City aren't activated yet. Also we would have to go to the swamp twice and there is no good way to soar there. Best way would probably be to do the following in cycle 2: - Play sodt - get 99r chest - buy chus and bombs - SoS to GB - Get Zora mask - super swim to Zora hall - SoS to mountain village - go to goron village - SoS to ST - Jump down and go through ikana to the witches - get bottle and SoA - warp to CT - Dupe bottle - warp to GB - rest as normal Getting the zora mask first adds one extra SoS, but it will help later on when you have to warp away from the nwbn learning CS. I'm pretty sure that will get you back those seconds the extra SoS wastes, plus the zora mask will speed up the swamp and getting past the big octos a lot.
MrGrunz wrote:
I almost shit my pants while watching this :O Sucks, that you need to visit Goron Village (--> Stone Tower) and Romani Ranch (--> Snowhead) for 2 of the most useful warps. Both places are not even close to be visited in the old route, but let's see how well we can integrate this trick. It has a shitload of potential for sure. And maybe this even turns out to be damn huge. Let's hope it. It is by far the closest we got to real Wrong Warps in Majora's Mask.
Well romani ranch gets activated by milk road and you can either get that in cycle 1 or warp there by selecting clock town. So worst case it wastes like 25s. Still faster than to get to snowhead form mountain village. Anywho, what is exciting is that with this, SHT is probably best done with only bombs and no chus. A bomb shop trip only for SHT would waste far too much time. You basically didn't use any chus there anyway in your TAS. I also thought STT might be doable in that way, but I can't think of a way of pulling either of these BK skips off in a timely fashion, without some chus. But if you have any ideas in that direction, that would be great.
GlitchesAndStuff wrote:
And about lullaby skip: the new TAS would be on JP obviously and on JP when the wind pushes you against an edge you lose all your speed. We would need to start a new HISS/superslide each time the wind stopped blowing if we wanted to do it that way. Also, getting to mountain village to unlock that section of the map won't take that long because we can just soar there via the deku palace map spot which we'd already have by that point in the run..
I already talked to you about it in IRC, but for the people here: I'm pretty sure Grunz told me once, that he can actually HISS against the wind, so that he doesn't get pushed to the ledges. Is that true, MrGrunz? If so, this shouldn't be a problem. But even if you get pushed to the ledges, you can always start a new HISS the moment the wind is gone. I'm pretty sure you can make it up in under 5 and that is all that is needed.
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Bizhawk because its newer than mupen64 and bizhawk is mupen64plus
Indextic can warp to owl statues without hitting them
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Sorry to ask that, because I never played MM but isn't Bizhawk can't reset the game (thats why i'm asking: Is Majora Mask TAS needs reset?)
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got4n wrote:
Sorry to ask that, because I never played MM but isn't Bizhawk can't reset the game (thats why i'm asking: Is Majora Mask TAS needs reset?)
Yep, you need to do a trick like this a lot: -Song of Time Storage (play the song of time while voiding out, so the game knows you need to do it but the message box isn't opened yet) -Kill a boss -Open the song of time prompt -Pick up the remains, then say 'yes' to the song of time, then reset This skips the cutscene where you meet the giants but you still get the remains.
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Oh, then you have to use Mupen64 if i'm correct, I don't know if bizhawk support resets?
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
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Where did you get that from? Bizhawk does support reset recording. mupen-rr doesn't.
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Oh okay, I thought it wasn't, thanks. Good luck on the TAS!
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
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Also who said that anybody would do a TAS of this?
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It was for the future
Current: Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD Paused: N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair) GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven) TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand