Post by Tseralith

Posted: 1/13/2014 7:05 PM

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Derakon wrote:

Radiant wrote:
This is possibly our first TAS for a game difficulty mode that's designed to be utterly impossible?
Adelikat did a TAS of Reallyjoel's Dad mode in Hero Core, which sticks you in a room with every single boss in the game active simultaneously. I don't think it got submitted for publication though.

That was nitsuja, actually. Post: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11376#276482 Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFvOzLX-bm4 He made a TAS of the full game too, which I can't find on Youtube. Not sure why they weren't submitted. But yeah, Hero Core in Reallyjoel's Dad mode is a good example of another difficulty level which is intended to be impossible.

sack-bot wrote:

Is it just me, or is suplexing overpowered?

It's indeed a very good move: it both makes you invincible to most bullets, but also instant-kills whatever walks into you. The downside however is that you need to stop firing to perform it, and you remain stationary while it's being performed. This makes you very vulnerable, especially if you miss your intended target. So under normal conditions, this still isn't nearly enough to get through more than one or two rooms in ReallyJoel's Mom difficulty.

Posted: 1/13/2014 7:35 PM

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Radiant

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Derakon wrote:

Adelikat did a TAS of Reallyjoel's Dad mode in Hero Core, which sticks you in a room with every single boss in the game active simultaneously. I don't think it got submitted for publication though.

Now that you mention it, I've seen that. I wonder why it wasn't published, perhaps because it requires a savestate with the difficulty unlocked?

sack_bot wrote:

Is it just me, or is suplexing overpowered?

Without TAS abilities, it's very hard to pull off without getting damaged.

Zarmakuizz wrote:

Iji from the same author seems impossible to do in reallyjoel's dad difficulty even in TAS.

Oh, don't worry - Iji is plenty ridiculous if you put it on Ultimortal difficulty with Turbo mode and Max Charge Tor. Unfortunately you need to play it on lower difficulties before those get unlockable. That reminds me: we need an Iji TAS :D

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Posted: 1/13/2014 7:55 PM

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Tseralith

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It's a good thing I can activate them in just four frames then. Even better I can begin reactivating it the very frame I land on, and that the two first frames are invincibility frames with the fourth one instantly blocking anything that "should've" hit me that frame. This gives me a one frame window to not get hit before I wait for the next victim. Believe me, it's not as easy to avoid shots as it might sound as... those elves certainly aren't making it easy for me. Speaking about Hero Core by the way, Reallyjoel's Dad mode is said to have actually BEEN beated by none less than... Reallyjoel's dad! The real dad that is according to this video, no joke intended. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfM3vtVlCTw

"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."

Posted: 1/14/2014 6:04 PM

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Derakon

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Posts: 3960

Truncated wrote:

That was nitsuja, actually. Post: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11376#276482 Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFvOzLX-bm4 He made a TAS of the full game too, which I can't find on Youtube. Not sure why they weren't submitted.

Gah! Thanks for the correction, and sorry nitsuja!

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Posted: 1/20/2014 11:20 PM

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So, back to discussing the game which this thread is actually about: Tseralith, any progress on the last stage? When can we hope to see a completed run?

Posted: 1/21/2014 5:16 AM

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Tseralith

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I'm currently testing out a couple of different routes in order to pick the most optimal one and I've gotten about halfway through the stage so far. There's a couple of rooms in the stage which has the slow spawning trains, so I could limit the possible paths to just two, both which ends up at the same room halfway through the stage. Just for comparison a "normal" room takes about 13-20 seconds for the last enemy to spawn while one of the train rooms takes 55 seconds. I believe I should finish this later on this week, maybe before the weekend depending on how much time my studies will demand of me.

"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."

Posted: 1/24/2014 8:49 PM

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Tseralith

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Daaaaang. Mecha Santa. Is. NASTY. ...posting the movie as soon as it's encoded/uploaded to youtube. No sneak peeking the .WTF file just yet.

"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."

Posted: 1/24/2014 11:52 PM

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Patashu

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C'mon, you're not gonna skip THAT cutscene, are you? :D It's after gameplay ends after all. Also, 255 piledrivers on the dot is a nice touch BTW, I'm curious about the frame data for counters. You said earlier that if you land from a piledriver you have two iframes, one vulnerable frame then on the fourth frame you've finished inputting it and are invincible again. But what if you just do a counter (didn't pick up anything)? How many frames are you vulnerable for before you can do another?

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Posted: 1/25/2014 12:47 AM

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Tseralith wrote:

Aaaand here it is! The conclusion of Hyper Princess Pitch and the fight with the "impossible" Mecha Santa, on the "impossible" difficulty Reallyjoel's Mom. Before you ask, yes you can skip the cutscenes. I just wished to keep them in for this particular video, though the one I'll submit will skip them all.

Heh, I chuckled at the screen in disbelief when the Mecha Santa fight started and he did his Multi Hand Storm. It might not be impossible but it's surely "impossible". Great work on this in any case. I loved it! :) Do you want to skip the ending cutscene so you can type in your name faster? Is there any meaningful content after typing in your name? To me, it seems that the run could be stopped after you deliver the last hit to Mecha Santa, which means that the ending could be included in the encode.

Posted: 1/25/2014 1:21 AM
(Edited: 1/25/2014 1:26 AM)

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Ilari

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Wonder how many rooms it would be possible to proceed (sure it would be much slower) on Reallyjoel's mom difficulty without piledriving/throwing? Also, one can't summon the goddess (or whatever, that does a lot of damage to enemy) on this difficulty?

Posted: 1/25/2014 1:22 AM

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FatRatKnight

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You can submit one movie, and have that one get straight to the very end as fast as possible. You can probably stop at the last hit against Mecha Santa if it's enough to reach the ending, and it's probably fine if the last scene is the stats screen. ... And upload a different movie that lets the ending cutscene play out, show off the stats for a few seconds, and write in whatever (short) message you like for name entry. And in the submission text, point encoders to this alternate version that gives a slightly better looking ending while the main submission file is used for record keeping. At least, that's what I recommend trying. I've done that, submitted a run that's enough to reach the ending, and offered an alternative movie that messes with the name entry just to give that feeling of completion. The main encodes use the name entry version, as it changes absolutely nothing before then, and still shows the ending exactly like the main version. As for my thoughts, I don't rightly see how mere humans can complete this. Couldn't weave around a few more shots between the insanity that is Mecha Santa at reallyjoel's mom difficulty? Definitely a fun TAS to watch. Also... That Multi Hand Storm. What the...

Posted: 1/25/2014 9:35 AM

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Radiant

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Excellent work! I concur that the run would look better if it ends with the last hit on MS and the endgame movie, instead of skipping the movie and entering your initials. I'm pretty sure that reaching the end movie counts as "completing the game". (edit) seriously that MS fight is beyond ridiculous :D

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Posted: 1/25/2014 1:51 PM

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Tseralith

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FatRatKnight wrote:

You can submit one movie, and have that one get straight to the very end as fast as possible.

So you are allowed to submit two movie files then, one which skips straight to the end and one which keeps the ending cinematics. If I understand it correctly, you link the fastest movie when you make the submission and link the cinematics one in the text for encoders to encode? I'd certainly prefer to watch the one with the endings which also lets you see the final stats as well. Technically the final input is the moment I enter my name for the scoreboard. Before that I have to manually skip the stage ending, the ending cinematic, the Galactic Princess Buster, stats screen and the hidden tips. I don't think the game will skip a few of them for you unfortunately. About those counters, they're not as helpful as a normal piledrive unfortunately. The very frame it ends on you're vulnerable again, and you have to wait one frame before you can begin another counter. Since the last input makes you invincible again, this means there's four vulnerable frames between each counter when you don't grab anything. You can barely keep up with Mecha Santa's Arctic Thunder since each wave gets a bit closer to you. In fact I had to walk down as much as I could in between each counter, or else the last wave would've reached me. If I had tried to shoot between the counters, I'd be locked from initiating it for one frame. One frame which I couldn't spare since the second series of Arctic Thunder did actually reach me the same frame I activated my last counter. Also, counters can block ANYTHING in the game except for the bosses themselves. Shots? No big deal. Blasts? Didn't feel anything. Lasers? Fancy light show. Arctic Thunder? Nothing special. Aurora Force Blast? Just some fireworks. The Goddess can't be summoned on this difficulty unfortunately, but I managed to do well enough without her help anyway. ;)

"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."

Posted: 1/25/2014 4:51 PM

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OmnipotentEntity

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The score counter hasn't been able to keep up since the second stage. Any idea what your score should have been?

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Posted: 1/25/2014 10:16 PM

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Patashu

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Cool! I hope you include this juicy frame data in the TAS submission ;)

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Posted: 1/26/2014 4:34 PM

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Zarmakuizz

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That last room before Mecha Santa is crazy, with that huge santa stream. … But Mecha Santa is even more insane. I am barely watching how you succeed to avoid all those damages and oh snap, the 2nd form already starts. Congrats!

Truncated wrote:

In the Wishlist for Windows topic, the user Billy Johnson claims to have TASed this game up to the final boss. I have tried sending a PM to get the WTF file, but no reply. Post: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=321194#321194 He also said that it was not possible to avoid the final attacks of Mecha Santa and more extra lives are needed. See his picture. It sounds strange to me that it wouldn't be possible to block the shots with piledrivers, but maybe it's true.

Tseralith did it :)

Posted: 1/26/2014 7:35 PM

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Tseralith

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The score actually did catch up during the fight, just that it started increasing again since I received 5000 from defeating Mecha Santa and an additional 10000 from finishing the stage. Right before I enter the room my score should be 234578... which takes 1 minute and 25 seconds to count up. My final score is thus 249578, just short of reaching first place. Sigh... An interesting thing I discovered earlier today, or rather finally figured out why it happened is that after you fire with your first shot, the second shot will appear one frame sooner. Then every other shot will appear after the normal delay. This means if I shoot with Bricks, the second shot will appear after three frames while every other shot appears after four frames. Same thing happens with Rainbow... which I accidentally miscalculated earlier. I thought it fires every nine frames, but then I happened to include this one frame faster rate of fire... so Rainbow actually fires every ten frames which means it ties Ice in damage. Damage wise this means: -Brick 0.25 damage/frame (~0.286 damage/frame for the first two shots since you do 2 damage in 7 frames) -Ice 0.3 damage/frame (Appears to not be affected by this single frame since it already has such a high rate of fire) -Rainbow 0.3 damage/frame; 3 damage per 10 frames. Miscalculation from earlier as I mentioned. (~0.316 damage/frame for the first two shots since you do 6 damage in 19 frames) This one frame faster rate of fire only happens every time you begin firing and unfortunately can't be exploited by firing twice, stop firing and start firing again. The game seems to keep track of the cooldown so this can only be exploited again after the cooldown has ended, that is after four frames has passed and you begin firing again on the fifth frame. I'll look into what I'll need to include when I post my submission, so it'll be up when I've finished writing it.

"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."

Posted: 1/27/2014 1:11 PM

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Radiant

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Do you see any way of scoring an additional 423 points?

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Posted: 1/27/2014 5:20 PM

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FatRatKnight

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Just to be clear, I make one submission (record keeping fastest main movie), and one WIP upload which I point to in the submission text ( http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/ - flashier ending that doesn't involve gameplay). But yeah, that's about it. As for the score, we can easily go either way for what's more aesthetic with the points. One point short, exactly matching, or one point above would be fun. But I like the idea that, despite doing this blindfolded and while doing dishes, reallyjoel's mom also has the modesty to merely remain in second place even against such legions. But the score is just aesthetics. How easy does it look to tweak your points without wasting time?

Posted: 1/27/2014 7:21 PM

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Tseralith

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Hmm. The closest one would be the present in the fourth room on the last stage. That shouldn't waste any time at all to get, although they give you 1000 points so I would have 250578 in the end. I could skip two of the triple shot sleighs as well since they give you 250 points each, but that would probably look sloppy if I did. Alternatively there's the third room on Stage 2 where about 16 marbles (that's what I'd like to call those bouncy) dissapear since they exit the screen at the bottom. Each one gives you 33 points so I'd need 13 of them to get 429... this will be harder to pull off since they dissapear faster than I can piledrive them. Although I could combine it with the fourth room in Stage 3, the one with the Ufo. I could try to throw an enemy on one of the triple shot sleighs and hope I'll be able to destroy 6 marbles from the earlier stage, or just destroy two of the sleighs instead. In the first room on Stage x, I could maybe piledrive a couple of the triple shot sleighs and hope I'll be able to catch up with the other sleighs without losing time, but that won't be easy. The last possibility I can think of which I basically wouldn't lose any time at all, but would be really hard to implement is if I could get enough black elf robots to spawn instead of the normal robot elves. Then I'd earn 99 points instead of 12 and I could theoretically acquire the points I need. But... normally you'd expect the TASer to get top score so I personally thought it was a funny change that I didn't in this game. Though this is just my personal opinion and I don't know what the audience in general think about this. To be fair score wasn't one of my goals in the beginning.

"An artist who can’t take constructive critique on their work is only hurting themselves and their potential. Conversely, and artist that can’t communicate a critique in a constructive way isn’t helping anybody."

Posted: 1/27/2014 9:58 PM

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jlun2

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FatRatKnight wrote:

But I like the idea that, despite doing this blindfolded and while doing dishes, reallyjoel's mom also has the modesty to merely remain in second place even against such legions.

LOL! I support this.

LLCoolDave wrote:

This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.

Posted: 1/27/2014 11:15 PM

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Radiant

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Seriously? Submit this run. You've worked hard on it and it's awesome. Nobody cares about scores, people care about that you beat the impossible mode of the game.

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Posted: 1/28/2014 12:14 AM

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Patashu

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Maybe the inevitable improvement run can be 'secondary goal: maximizes/minimizes score' or 'secondary goal: minimizes piledrivers/counters'.

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Posted: 1/28/2014 1:33 AM

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FatRatKnight

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If there's an improvement, and the TASer feels like manipulating the score at the time, I would love to see it miss the first place by exactly one point. But I have to agree, submit the run you've got once you feel ready. It already stands on its own as a good TAS to watch. I'm guessing there's a lot of text to write up? If you're worried, you can edit your submission text later if you find mistakes or realized there's more stuff to explain. We're also pretty patient (I hope a TASing community has patience, considering what TASing takes), so if you really want the time, I don't want to put harsh pressure on you. You have a complete run, and sometime in the future, you're likely to submit it. I'm already happy thinking that.