I'm not a big fan of "perfect" runs (most of my favorite challenges revolve around meeting minimal requirements rather than obtaining maximum completion) but I'll chip in a few thoughts, regardless:
The only way to get the Cursed Ring is with the Ragnarok Esper. If you're more concerned about item completion than Esper collection, though, you could manipulate luck and use Setzer's slots or the Magicite item to use Metamorph instead. I recall from some tests I did a while ago that manipulating Ragnarok using Magicite/Slots prevents you from getting particular items from a monster's morph list due to the way the RNG works. I'm not sure if the Cursed Ring is one of those, but if it is, you might have to take the Esper instead of the sword.
I'm pretty sure that perfect stats for every character would be impossible to accomplish due to the limited number of levels you can gain. Plus, watching everyone grind up to 99 would be pretty boring.
By "All Spells," does that mean you're going to teach every spell to every possible character? That could get kind of dull as well...
Of course, this is your run, not mine. If you're interested in getting it accepted to TASVideos, though, you might want to bump up the entertainment value by minimizing grinding and keeping the action moving along.
Rayas wrote:
Dunno if I'm really clear. I need to drink more.
<br>
adelikat wrote:
The idea was to kill off my family to avoid lost time to them getting sick and other inconvenient things.
Wouldn't you run into an issue where you need certain enemy formations early in the game, but getting the experience from them ruins your perfect stats?
Wouldn't you run into an issue where you need certain enemy formations early in the game, but getting the experience from them ruins your perfect stats?
Once he gets Umaro and/or Gogo, he can use them to advance the formation counter. That may be a bit late though.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
First off, you can rule out getting max stats. That would require doing a low-level run until you get the best stat-boosting espers, and then you still have to make an arbitrary decision about which stats you want to focus on (vigor, mag, spd, etc). Also, even fighting nothing but double tyrannosaurs, it takes HOURS to get everyone to lv 99.
As for the other things you listed, my thoughts:
At least 1 of every item- Very reasonable
Perfect Stats - Forget about it; already explained why
All Treasures - How is this different from getting 1 of every item?
All Characters - Definitely
All Levels - Hell no
All Spells - For every character? Absolutely not
All Rages - Are you insane? That must be an hour of veldt grinding alone
All Lores - Sure
All Dances - Sure
But in my own view I imagine there's some way to overflow the items back to 0 anyway, using some bug. (All hypothetical; I don't really know. But the mere thought of that probably existing makes me think that it sounds better to get at least 1 of each item, in order to fill up the entire item list obviously, instead of wasting away at 99 items, of which some can't even be obtained as such.)
You can't just hope that there's an overflow/underflow glitch that would allow that to happen. You either need to understand the inner workings of the game and discover it yourself, or assume it doesn't exist until someone else actually finds it.
Why don't you do something similar to the Chrono Trigger run? I know it was ruled out as a '100%' category for various reasons, but I feel like it pretty well accomplished everything without being absolutely ridiculous. It obtained many, many important items without bothering with every single treasure and item, it obtained all of the unique stat tabs, it completed all the major sidequests...
Instead of every item, why not go through every major treasure? Certain treasures are mutually exclusive (e.g., Ragnarok), but having that one guy at the end with 8 attacks and two Ultima Weapons is always just fun to see, even if only once.
All spells? I think having every spell between all characters should be a thing we could look at. It wouldn't even be that ridiculous, I feel. Also, between Celes and Terra with their natural spell list, that could cut down on the need to grind with some early espers.
All Lores may prove a little difficult, since you may wind up having Strago in your group a lot to avoid switching characters or backtracking lots to get hard-to-find lores. Dances, probably not so much, especially with good luck manipulation.
One thing I feel should be different, I don't think all the major boss battles should be Slot manipulation. As hilariously fast as the game was at the end of that TAS, it was a little boring seeing that go down... Having it happen once or twice was fun, but with all the options we would have available with a high% TAS, the bosses would be a joke, anyway. Especially given that several bosses throughout the game are undead, seeing multiple ways of one-shotting most bosses would be pretty amusing. That and glitches like Vanish-Doom/X-Zone or bugging out Cyan's Retort would be amusing, not to mention messing around with the possibilities of Rippler.
There's a guide on gamefaqs that shows how to play through the game low enough level to get all the enemies for rages while keeping a very low level. It's very useful, though even in a casual console run there are some things it overlooks, like just using Morph/Earrings with Terra during the burning house boss, which heavily cuts down on the amount of ice rods he says to buy. More strategies like this [and running away from Shiva/Ifrit battle, not mentioned there but maybe to make the gameplay less cheap for a casual player] is what I hope to do throughout the rest of the early game to cut down on costs. Luck manipulation would be heavy (like for 'farming' Veldt formations) and is actually the one thing I feel a little down about, since I'd like to see a theory TAS for what a human player can do, but this would find stuff (known or not!) as well. For instance, since there are better items later on in South Figaro barrels if you don't retrieve them early in the game, a human player would likely want to enter the town with Mog in the party, collect the appropriate barrels, then go down with the Moogle Charm to retrieve all the treasure in the basement where the monsters are.
Also a lot of sections would be boring but they're completely necessary to complete the objective. It's super possible to simple skim/skip over the boring sections in order to see the results of figuring out the mechanics of the game well enough to achieve everything as fast as possible. Again it wouldn't be published on this site at all; it would be more like a 100% TAS from Saturn like what he did with Secret of Evermore. (All Treasures differs from having 1 of every item because it's one of the more interesting parts of the game to see where all the hidden items are.)
One thing to clear up is that I wouldn't be getting ALL enemy formations, as that would be stupid. anyway yeah here's a terra thing i made
Terra needs to equip:
Ramuh (2 battles) [Poison]
Kirin (3 battles) 2 battle = 80%
Siren (2 battles) 1 battle = 80%
Stray (2 battles)
Ifrit (0 battles)
Shiva (0 battles)
Maduin (0 battles)
Unicorn (0 battles)
Shoat (2 battles) 1 battle = 80%
Phantom (4 battles) 3 battle = 90%
Carbuncle (2 battles) [Reflect]
Bismark (1 battle) [Ice]
Golem (2 battles)
ZoneSeek ("1 battle") [used heavily during leveling to 99]
Seraphim (0 battles) [get after rescuing the child in WoR]
Palidor (5 battles)
Starlet (1 battle)
Fenrir
Tritoch (10 battles)
Terrato (10 battles)
Phoenix (10 battles)
Alexander (tba)
Paladin (0 battles)
Bahamut (5 battles)
Crusader (1 battle)
http://pastebin.com/2ChZD9uR current thoughts
Could also steal a Debilitator from the Right Crane, and use that for leveling in the WoB (by making Adamanchyts weak to poison then running away with Edgar).
There's a guide on gamefaqs that shows how to play through the game low enough level to get all the enemies for rages while keeping a very low level.
I actually followed that guide a long time ago so I could get everyone to lv 99 with esper boosted stats. From what I remember, you have to grind a lot of Locke steals to afford halfway decent equipment. The first half of the game was hell, but suddenly became a lot easier when you got equipment that would grant a unit 128 magic avoid, since they would become de-facto invincible.
Come to think of it, a low-level run TAS by itself would be interesting to watch if it can manipulate away most of the grinding done in RTA.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I agree with Vykan's recommendations. Level 99 and all spells for all chars is insane. I've done it myself but wouldn't want to watch it. Same thing for all rages, the veldt time would just be too long and boring plus you would need to spend a lot of time winning random battles.
"All treasures" could be separated into at least "open all treasure chests/search all barrels/etc", "all side quests" (for example, getting all the items from a perfect banquet) and "at least one of every item". All of those are reasonable though they might be a little slow at times. Would you do all the letters in the Cyan letter subplot?
There is a hack of this game called Pony Fantasy VI. It replaces most characters with those from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
Due to changes in script, I cannot do Ponified encodes of existing runs of Final Fantasy VI TASes.
Things also changed include battle commands, name of characters, towns, items, spells, etc., effects of spells, and things that can be learned and/or equipped.
There are also various shout-outs to My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. It has to be seen to be believed.
"Winning random battles"? Can run away from battles and still have them (the formations) appear on the Veldt. (I'm guessing most people know this so I must be misunderstanding.) The boring parts could be skipped over by the watcher. It's the challenge of figuring out the exact formulation, to require the least battles, which makes the end result satisfying. If one is bored during the most grind-filled spots, the result after skipping the video is still gratifying in a way. (I'm hoping it's all under 10 hours.) I get motivation after reading this thread, so thanks for anything. The way the encounters work in this game is aggravating, though; it's like everything is pre-determined when the game is first turned on. Also which emulator should I use for testing or whatever (could answer in PM), since I'll have to wait until the end of the year before affording a good computer for Bizhawk. I heard 1.52 is good?
I have a Lua script that counts the number of steps to the next encounter. Yes, it's basically pre-determined though there are different areas with different encounter rates. For example on the World of Balance lighter coloured pieces of terrain have no random encounters.
Therefore you can't avoid encounters entirely without the assistance of the Moogle Charm. (Untested: how resetting affects encounters... though this would only help on the world map anyway)
Well we could do the GBA version and utilize the Level Reset Glitch.
Link to videoIt can also be read here.
And of course on the GBA version you don't need the sprint shoes to dash, you can do it right from the start by holding B. You can even toggle auto dash. Also, the Chocobo controls on the GBA version feels a little cramped. It's something to get used to. Also, the sprint shoes make you move even more faster.
I would do the Airship Glitch if I were you.
After the Esper World cutscene, fly to South Figaro and buy 3 Sprint Shoes before getting to Narshe, after that, you can't return there until the World of Ruin to get Mog.
After Leo is put to rest, fly to Figaro Castle with only Terra and Locke, after the cutscene with Kefka, leave the castle and fly to the east end of Mt. Kolts.
Enter Mt. Kolts with Terra, Locke, and Edgar. Defeat Vargas, then fly to the imperial camp with only Sabin. After Cyan's cutscene, leave.
Go to the south end of the Phantom Forest and hop aboard the Phantom Train. After that, you'll see that Strago and Relm are now ghosts.
Now fly to the Floating Island. I'm not sure if the ghosts can be used again after using Possess on Ultima Weapon.
After that, watch as the Great and Powerful Moghan tears through the first part of the World of Ruin.
We realized we didn't activate Gau's introductory scene, sometimes in the Veldt, the battle will last indefinitely. So the only way out is to commit suicide.
So that means, no rages. Also with ghosts, No lores which means no Grand Train. On the other hand, Gogo can use Possess.
No enemy is immune to Possess. Which means you can OHKO Kefka by using Possess.
And yes, these glitches also work on the GBA version (except for the Vanish/X-Zone bug which was fixed)
I would use Possess on the last 2 phases of the final boss. We have beaten the game before Kefka can say "Son of a submariner!"
I just found out that casting Possess on a boss with multiple phases, just goes to the next phase.
Plus, Pony Fantasy VI has made the bosses harder, like giving some bosses extra phases, and also a Life3 status buff.
Bosses with 4 or more phases cannot easily be defeated with just Possess alone. I learned that the hard way.
Link to video
From what I understood from the video, you can now go from the floating continent to Kefka's tower with a full party, as well as several illuminas in your inventory, effectively skipping the entire world of ruin.
I feel like the Illumina/Gem Box glitching is probably not worth the time under TAS conditions, where we can just Joker Doom everything anyway.
I am very curious to see what is worth the time once in WOR. Possibly just Moogle Charm.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Is anyone working on this? Using the multi-game run as reference we should save half an hour from this trick alone! (The Atma fight begins at 3:03 and control of the Falcon occurs at 3:33.) I think it's nice that the parts which are cut are the less exciting parts: the long WoR cutscene, feeding Cid, and running from lots of battles on the overworld map. The only potentially exciting parts we lose are Daryl's Tomb and Figaro Castle.
...but I've been unable to replicate that " la " spell which is Engulf. Can anyone get that working? Preferably without an 8 minute blackout in the middle of the run?
Take my old 4:15 run and cut it off at the point where you have the choice to jump from the Floating Containent (and I select no). In my old run, the very next thing I did was encounter a Dragon a few steps away from Atma and perform the sketch glitch on it. And what a coincidence, this was the perfect setup to equip the Goggles! It can be done via the item menu.
The final battle is even faster than I thought. Killing Kefka with BabaBreath is super fast (and funny!) because it skips his lengthy pixel-crumble animation. Yes, he goes flying off screen. But then I realized that using BabaBreath on an ally and having the other guy die is even faster. Oh well.
We really only need 3 "instant death captains" to win the game. Setzer is an obvious and easy one. As long as we can get Goggles on at least two other people, we're made. Goggles -> X-Potion/BabaBreath works on literally everything because running from a battle is as good as winning it.
Hey,
I'm currently working on it with Kadmony who designed the sketch glitch speedrun route. I've worked on disassembling the code concerning the sketch glitch, and I found more than 50 different setups of spell aiming byte/availability that can produce the glitch (instead of the usual 3 that are mentionned).
You can find my current work (in a mess) here: https://github.com/clementgallet/ff6-tas/wiki
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Nice work! I read all of it. But I have a question about the table of sketch glitch values. How do you read it? For example:
List of potential distinct glitch effect based on Spell aiming and availability. Common spells in bold.
...
Template 0-8F: (2,40), (69,68), (69,88)
Template 0-97: (69,DA)
Template 0-9B: (43,CC)
...
Are you saying that when 7E20FF contains 008F (2 bytes) that it has an effect described by the numbers (2,40); (69,68); and (69,88)?
-------------------
Since I've never seen the sketch glitch give direct access to Engulf and since I also can't replicate the video that Vykan12 posted, I'm going to try something clever.
I can easily get goggles equipped on someone. Good thing, because that allows for BabaBreath! But the fun of the item id -> spell id glitch which is enabled by the goggles is limited by the fact that most items aren't useable in battle. If only somehow I could use a BlackBelt after attacking with goggles then I should be able to have an easily controllable Engulf on command!
Well, the sketch glitch corrupts your battle inventory. And not just item ids and quantities - it also corrupts the item flags. That's how I equip the goggles, since they're temporarily a weapon for some reason. If I could get an item slot marked as consumable without changing the item id then I could 'use' a BlackBelt after attacking with Goggles. But my testing is so random.
Nice work! I read all of it. But I have a question about the table of sketch glitch values. How do you read it? For example:
List of potential distinct glitch effect based on Spell aiming and availability. Common spells in bold.
...
Template 0-8F: (2,40), (69,68), (69,88)
Template 0-97: (69,DA)
Template 0-9B: (43,CC)
...
Are you saying that when 7E20FF contains 008F (2 bytes) that it has an effect described by the numbers (2,40); (69,68); and (69,88)?
Yeah, sorry, I was really not clear.
Numbers in parentheses are aiming byte and availability of the 28th spell. So if 7E20FF is 0x4002, 0x6869 or 0x8869, you will get the same glitch that query the 8-bit enemy size template with id 8F.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I understand now. "Template 0-9B" is the name you've given to one of the possible outcomes, and 7E20FF = CC43 is how you obtain it.
But the outcome of the sketch also depends on the current formation's mold, doesn't it? So what we need to do is to test each of the 24 bolded size templates against the 4 most common molds? (0, 1, 11, and 12. Although 3, 4, 5 and 7 are arguable.)
I've been at it for a bit already today. I did finally replicate the " La " result. But I was unable to create a consumable BlackBelt or make an existing one consumable temporarily. The closest I found was an equipable one. But I have " La " now so I can cast Engulf that way. The muddle manipulation is annoying, but oh well. And so are enemies whose battle scripts are 100% battle, which spoils the muddle. (The first formation I succeeded against was 2x Brawler.)
I've noticed slightly different visual effects depending on *which* monster I target for the sketch. It seems not to affect the "fun" stuff like available spells, items, or equipment. But it does affect how quickly the sketch glitch "returns" from the animation. The possibilities seem to be: instantly, after several minutes, and never.
EDIT: about 19/20 tests of these possibilities never terminate :| (game is hung)
EDIT 2: I thought I was so clever. You need mold 0 to get Engulf, so I thought I'd do it against the IAF! But no. The game seems to ignore the Engulf teleport both during the IAF sequence and everywhere on the floating continent. No teleporting into the ZoneEater "while on an airship". Too bad. Doing the sketch glitch and airship glitch at the same time would've been so cool!
