I'm confused. You got 32:56 - but it's only going to TG? And you're working on another, and you will send that into?
You should read my SDA comments - I mention about the gamble and stuff. Michael Friend and Ramzi back then were telling me a route I should do if I redid this run...I don't even remember exactly what it was, but they did have a route...(wishes he could find it).
Yes, I’m working on a faster run right now. I sent the 32:56 run in right away because I’d be punching myself if it were accidentally erased/lost/destroyed.
I read on SDA, and it just says that it’s a gambling route for 33 minutes. Whatever it was, I can tell you right now that it’s slower than the new one I posted. You can give me any route, aside from the TAS, and I will tell you why it’s slower, and where the time is lost. You can imagine how much testing was done to arrive at this route, TAS-wise and Speedrun-wise.
Btw, congratulations on your sub 1:40 LttP. You just finished MM and you set another record so soon.
But didn't you gamble 1x times in your run?
I'm pretty sure the route I was told and believed was the fastest was:
3-Candle-4-1-HC-HC-5-White Sword-HC-2-7-Magical Sword-6-8-9
I'm pretty sure that's what I've believed was the route or about a year now, though the specifics of it (where to get items, what exact screens to go) I didn't.
I'm pretty sure either Ramzi or Michael Fried told me this.
Alright, with no WS in L5, I lose an average of 40s, with my fastest time losing 30s. 12s gained from up+A after getting WS. That makes it at least 18 seconds slower from my POV. There’s also a survival issue there.
Edit: I forgot the difference in the L2 path. It would be at least 10 seconds slower, not 18. You would still die a lot in L5 though.
TSA, I remember awhile ago you mentioned a sub-33 run that some Japanese guy did. Do you remember what the exact time was? Is the Japanese version of the game slower or faster and by how much?
1. It was done on the Famicom version, not the FDS version, so it should be running as fast as the NES version.
2. Pols Voices can't be killed with arrows in the Japanese version.
3. Japanese text is shorter in this game than English text.
4. He was on GameFAQs and said he did it, and he spoke very poor English and I don't think I got my point across for him to send a video to TG or to SDA.
5. He said he got a time of 33:07.
This guy got a sub-30 while trying to beat the TAS, which he thinks is the WR. GJ GameFAQs.
Yeah, and what about that guy who beat Genisto's 10:54 SMB3 TAS on a real console? You can't trust everything people claim on gamefaqs, it's very likely that he's BSing.
I hate that guy...him and Exrodus go around trolling and claiming they beat all these times. He said he got a 3:57 100% OoT run...better than that one guy who said he got sub 5 100%.
Sleepz - do you plan to send any run to SDA? I understand if you want to keep it a secret, but in all honestly the TAS gives away so much...and just knowing the route...I'm just saying it's pointless not to put it up unless you have another reason not to (like SDA messing up your MM 2 run capture originally, which they fixed).
Honestly, I am tempted to keep the run private. Believe me, it was my original intention to send to both TG and SDA, but I was also expecting my time to be just under 33:45, not sub 33. This is why I didn’t want to announce it. The TAS didn’t help as much as you think for this one, especially since LoZ is far from a linear run, and the fighting is so ridiculously fast. I spent a LOT of time with both TAS and Speedrun to come up with a routine on my own. Please understand.
So I've decided for now, the route and the times I’m not revealing. I might eventually change my mind though. As for everything else, strategies, other possible route ideas, I don’t mind sharing everything I know.
Edit: Just so I don’t leave you wondering, no, I didn’t use the route I posted. The route I used is only 5 seconds slower overall, but the changes make the run easier to perform. That route posted is still the fastest for a human though.
So I've decided for now, the route and the times I’m not revealing. I might eventually change my mind though. As for everything else, strategies, other possible route ideas, I don’t mind sharing everything I know.
Eck...I'm having a shitty day, so pardon this crap I posted earlier. I did not see that you said you would discuss your stuff.
But I'm confused? If you will discuss it, this means you will reveal some stuff. But is your goal to only reveal stuff to people who come around here or are involved, and not some people who just browse around and suddenly get better because they see the video or something? Also, if your run is as good as you say, it will be hard to replicate for somebody then?
Also, have you seen sdkess said he has a faster route than the one you posted? You said it was the fastest human route...so he says otherwise...
I still think:
Level 3
Up+A
Gamble 1X
Blue Candle
Level 4
Up+A
HC
100 rupees
Level 2
HC
White Sword
Level 5
Up+A
HC
Level 1
Warp to Level 3
Arrows/Bait
Level 7
Magical Sword
Level 6
Warp to Level 2
Level 8
Warp to Level 1
Level 9
Is a good route.
So I've decided for now, the route and the times I’m not revealing.
Oh no, are you starting to catch TG syndrome, Sleepz? I think TSA is annoyed now, so it seems this might backfire for you and instead greatly increase the chance of your run being beaten.
Edit: Lol, now that I'm reading over this post, I really like that term TG syndrome, maybe I should add it to the glossary. ;)
I still think:
Level 3
Up+A
Gamble 1X
Blue Candle
Level 4
Up+A
HC
100 rupees
Level 2
HC
White Sword
Level 5
Up+A
HC
Level 1
Warp to Level 3
Arrows/Bait
Level 7
Magical Sword
Level 6
Warp to Level 2
Level 8
Warp to Level 1
Level 9
Is a good route.
Michael - Before video games existed, the trade of "keeping secrets" was around long before...I'm sure you already know, though. Magicians are big time practitioners of this. In fact, if you give away magical tricks, you're black balled. Imagine if we did that in the speed run community?
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
It's different for speedrunning, though. 90% of the tricks out there don't have a hidden catch. Therefore, as soon as you bust out your ace in the hole, someone else will come along and steal it. Why not have everyone spill everything they have, save for those things that do require obscure catches (since they're your secret, right?), and further the optimisations of the games?
Also, no one will be black listed in a gaming community for discussing games. Ever. That defeats the purpose of a gaming community.
He probably doesn't want someone to just copy his run, make only small changes then create a new WR out of that.
I do think a lot of speedrunning is just practising sequences until it is all encoded in procedural memory and happens almost unconsciously. Coming up with routes and creative strategies is the best part because this is where most of the thinking is involved. I think to demonstrate whether one player is truly more skillful than another you'd have to make them do something that goes out of their preparation. Let them play a cart that randomly generates levels and see who handles them better. This, however, would be very difficult to arrange.
Michael - Before video games existed, the trade of "keeping secrets" was around long before...I'm sure you already know, though. Magicians are big time practitioners of this. In fact, if you give away magical tricks, you're black balled. Imagine if we did that in the speed run community?
Are you implying that you're not annoyed? Then... wait a minute, did you edit your post on SDA? I could've sworn you said you were annoyed, or am I just imagining things?
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Diablo 1.
Except you can play ahead in Diablo 1, and then replace the save file with an older file, veritably playing a 'random' map with knowlege of everything therein.
A better example would be Diablo II through battle.net without using any illegal hacks. Also, to further define it, I would say Diablo II, through battle.net, in Act III. There is no way anyone can comfortably enter that area of the game and know what they are doing.
