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Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Thanks, Harmonik (but I found this page earlier :) ) ! The speedrunner get really lucky for his run.
New PCSX2-rr
Joined: 9/20/2013
Posts: 7
If you need any help with this both me and Ghostwheel have worked on the SS route for over a year now and can help with the routing where ever we can.
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
I'm very happy to see a TAS being worked on for this game. I'm still around and I'm as into CoM as ever. I saw your WIP and I'm impressed with the work you've put into it. Manipulating heartless near doors and optimal routes, menu optimization, manipulating cards when you have time, getting Donald luck on Guard Armor, and lots of other little moments really stick out to me. I have a couple questions: -Why Halloween Town first? You don't really get anything from it, and if you fight Oogie on later floors, you can one-cycle him. For that matter, what is your world route and your reasoning behind it? -What are your future boss strategies? I see you taking sleights, and I'm curious as to what you're building up to. -Why not edit your deck at the first opportunity and grind Traverse town for a ton of cards? In every room but Teeming Darkness you can find the 3x shadow encounter and kill the whole encounter with Blizzara. This is the fastest way to get map cards cards save for the use of the warp sleight, and warp only saves time if you can't get all the EXP fast enough. Keep in mind TT is a great way to incidentally get blizzards and the blue rhapsody enemy card, depending on your boss strategies. I've put a good deal of thought into what a good TAS route would look like, so I'm sure I can help you out. I'll definitely be watching your WIPs whenever they come up, but if you have questions, definitely poke here, on SDA, or on my stream. Good luck, and I'm pulling for you!
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Thanks, Ghostwheel ! You do a really good job with your speedrun, too ! You're really brave because this game is based on luck. The handling of Heartless is not the most difficult thing. Some Heartless move according to the Sora's movement. - Oh, I really didn't know (I've not saw your speedrun fully yet). So, thanks for the information ! - I take sleights because, when there are three things to be displayed at the level up menu, the game lags one frame. - I've forgotten to take the bizzard cards ?! It's really a shame ! (I'm stupid) I accept your help, of course, Drazerk and Ghostwheel.
New PCSX2-rr
Joined: 9/20/2013
Posts: 7
Only a few things come down to luck in the grand scheme of things so its not the worst thing in the world to run :) As for world order I still think Olympus will be your best first choice giving access to Omnislash and possibly Blizzard raid (You may be able to skip this since you won't be needing it for Dragon maleficent or Axel). As well as Omnislash it will give you early access to Olympia which is a pretty powerful early game combo finisher and its best to consider how you will build your decks now rather than later. Edit: Completely forgot about Retrograde which should make up for any CP loss since you are getting sleights
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
With TAS manipulation in both the card acquisition and the fights, retrograde is probably not worth the time it takes to get it. Getting sleights to force the menu to be two entries fine in a vacuum, but I think you may end up needin to sacrifice a few frames picking up CP. The way I see this going is optimally is: -Get 6 blizzards, 1 rhapsody, 1 nocturne and ~1700 moogle points in TT while you farm ~70 cards optimally. Get CP during the level ups (you'll probably need it for the deck) -Do Olympus first, and use blizzaga on Hades while picking up blizzard raid. -Do Wonderland, manipulate an early trick card, and raid trickmaster. Pick up summon boost here as well. -Use a Moogle room in Agrabah to get 10 Lady Luck and 5 Three Wishes Keyblades, as well as 5 fires and 5 clouds. Ideally their values are high enough for good sleights, but if not, you just need to reset more in battles. Depending on the efficiency of lady luck, it may be better to shift the balance toward that and use two hit or one hit combos chained together in a frame perfect way. -Make a deck in slot 2 with 5 well built combos followed by your potion, followed by your magic, followed by your enemy cards (berserk, attack haste, summon boost, rhapsody, nocturne). With perfect menuing, you should have no trouble doing this quickly. Future boss strategies would incorporate either Card Soldier or Berserk depending on whether you can get to low health easily (manipulate a certain attack from the boss or get hit quickly while farming a card). The problem is that most bosses will force you to level up and go back to full health, so keeping in berserk range may not always be optimal. In these cases, Card soldier gets the job done almost as well. This deck is also CP heavy, so it may be good to figure out your theoretical CP at this point -You don't need a trick card to get good platform luck on Jafar -Parasite Cage gets taken down by a Firaga followed by berserk combos -Oogie gets one cycled on berserk. -Larxene and Riku go down in 3 Omnislashes each, but berserk has the potential to be faster. -Maleficent should be fine with physical attacks as long as they're high enough in value. -Ursula should be done next, and looks great when done with berserk and no trick cards (check out Echopheonix's video on YT) -Hook can be pinned into a corner and murdered with fire raid. -Vexen goes down to fire raids. Manipulating him into the wall may be faster. -At Destiny Islands, you'll want to beef up your attack card deck by replacing it with 5 divine roses, 5 crabclaw, and 5 oathkeeper. You'll have to do this after you fight darkside though. With proper trick card manipulation, berserk may be faster, especially if it's integrated with omnislash spam. Echophoenix uses holy here and in future bosses, but that takes way too long to get, especially considering the level you need to be. -Larxene and Riku need a combination of Berserk and Omni, while Axel needs 6 blizzard raids to the face. You can actually exploit Marluxia's weakness to physical attacks here in both forms. What do you think? The only problem I can forsee is a potential CP dearth in Agrabah where you need it, but this can be remedied by splitting the deck edit in two (not much of a time loss). The thing about this game is that with so much potential, there may be faster strategies I never considered.
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
I think you're right ! I thought a lot of things like you (but I've forgotten to take the attack cards... I'm really stupid !). Thanks for your help ! I'll begin this week or next week according to thime I have.
New PCSX2-rr
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Hello ! Thanks to you, Ghostwheel, there is a new version of Traverse Town (but, this time, I knew exactly what I needed) ! Say me what you think about it, please. Link to video And here's all I found about the RNG (x is a number that I don't know) : Out of battle : - Making a jump changes the RNG (but Sora's position doesn't affect except when the enemies appear on the map). - Sometimes, the RNG doesn't change during x frames. - Sometimes, the RNG changes each frame. - Sometimes, the RNG changes each frame during x frames but, after, doesn't change again. During a battle : - Jump and Sora's position affect the RNG... But now always. - Sometimes, the card changes depending on the Heartless. - Sometimes, the card changes depending on the time. The trouble is I don't know how I can switch from one to the other... I tried to watch how the game works (with the debugger) a few weeks ago but I didn't find anything useful.
New PCSX2-rr
Editor, Expert player (2088)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1200
A tad boring, but it gets way more interesting once the farming is over. I'm sure the rest of the run will be fantastic.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Yes, I know that's boring but I had no choice : I had to earn those cards... But, yes, the other worlds will be more pleasant (I'm not going to fight so much).
New PCSX2-rr
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
Lots of great stuff here, I saw a lot of improvements since the last run and even during the run itself. Comments: -Fantastic Blizzard collection. Over the course of the run, you got 6 blizzards pretty seamlessly and worked them into your strategy well. Moogle point collection was also great and I'm curious as to how many points you now have. -Exp collection was mostly flawless. -In the moment, most battles were handled pretty much optimally. Movement of enemies was manipulated when possible and overall everything was set up well. -Picked up a Red Nocturne. -It seems like you got a lot of cards (I didn't count) and in such a short amount of time this looks up for the entertainment value of the TAS. Suggestions: -Spend more time editing your deck. You should have had 2-3 blizzards in the front from the start, so that you don't have to wait the nontrivial amount of time it takes to flip to them at the start of each fight. It's clear that deck editing, once started, takes almost no time, and the timesaving effects of a cleaner edit can be seen in multiple fights. You also kind of wanted to have more blizzards in against the bosses. -Get Blue Rhapsody cards, too. I would optimally have 2 in a run, and I'd expect you will need that many as well. -I've regularly have Guard armor and Axel fights which were significantly faster and which relied on similar resources, with 6 Blizzards and a Rhapsody or 2, you can quick kill both of them just by spamming blizzaga. -You seem to be able to manipulate what happens to a box when you strike it or jump on it, but you don't even attempt to manipulate the type of encounter you get when running into a heartless in the overworld. You set yourself up to fight it as fast as possible, but if waiting a few frames is all it takes to get an encounter with fewer spawns, you could probably cut your W1 time in half at least, no joke. You could fight only the 3x shadow encounter, nuke it with a blizzara, and fight other encounters only to get the enemy cards you need. Your fights are much, much better this time, but you are always at the mercy of the number of spawns your encounter has. Questions: -What is your card breakdown, number of map cards, and moogle points? -Can you manipulate encounter types empirically like you did overworld objects? -How difficult was it to RNG those blizzards from the boxes? The red nocturne enemy card? I don't want to discourage you in any way, your run is 1000 times better than the last one, i just think there are ways that it can be even more tight. If you want to talk to me about the processes you used to get this result, I'll continue to help as best I can.
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Well, thanks a lot (for your comments and suggestions). - My blizzards aren't on top ? It doesn't matter ! I think I lose more time by moving them than by being faster during few battles (I have to wait the Heartless'spawn). - Well, manipulating the RNG isn't really easy... But I'll try to have better encounters (if you think the time can be cut in half, I'll try). But, I don't want to have 100 times the same battle (but if it can save so much time...). And I'll take 2 Rhapsody Cards this time. - I'll do again Guard Armor and Axel with this strategy. Answers : - What do you mean by "card breakdown" ? (Sorry, I've still so much things to learn and I find nothing useful by searching on Internet) - Moogle Points : 1800 - Number of map Cards : 76, a lot of them are set to be used with the crowned doors. - I think it's possible but harder than manipulating the boxes. - For the red nocturne, if I remember well, it got lucky : without any RNG manipulation, I got this one. - For the blizzards, I've tried what I could : jump, wait... When I couldn't have the card, I tried to have Moogle Points. So, I think I'll do it again but it may last longer to achieve Traverse Town if I manipulate the type of battles (I hope I won't have trouble to have again all these cards). But, well, if the movie's length can be cut in half, I won't hesitate (and maybe, I'll be able to use hex editing or the Lua script if the battles are the same).
New PCSX2-rr
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
Yeah, beating a 3x Shadow only takes ~6 seconds so it's worth it. If you end up waiting for heartless to spawn after flipping to blizzards, no it's not worth it to put them in front, but if you lose even one frame by flipping the number of battles makes it worth it to move them, especially since long term you want them in front anyway (a clump of blizzards at the front is very nice for making raids and early blizzagas). Note: you can't find 3x shadow in Teeming Darkness rooms, and maybe not in meeting ground rooms either. I actually think having similar battles isn't so bad considering how much shorter the boring section of the run will be as a result. The battle should be the same each time you get one of these, so scripting may be an option. If encounter manipulation proves incredibly difficult, you can settle for one spawn encounters which don't have rhapsodies as well. (Soldier + 2 Nocturnes, Soldier + 2 Shadows, and Nocturne + 2 Shadows, the first 2 are Teeming only, the last one is everywhere else). These encounters are only marginally slower than the 3x shadow. The only time you should be fighting rhapsodies is to get their enemy cards because they need slower combos to take down. Sorry I use my own terminology sometimes, by card breakdown I meant what you had in your deck and sideboard. It's tough to see and while I can theoretically count as I go I may have missed something. You have 6 blizzards, the nocturne, your starting cards and nothing else? Don't worry too much about what map cards you specifically get just yet. You have a second round of farming to worry about that. If you want, you can ship me a list of map cards when you finish next time and I can help you use them optimally throughout the run too. For now, if you're going to save anything, let it be 9s. The internet is pretty dry on resources for this game but I've scoured it, I've tried to compile everything i know for SS running into this page: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Kingdom_Hearts:_Chain_of_Memories/Sora Maybe you'll find it a good read even if you're doing something different. I probably know as much about this game as anyone can, so feel free to ask me something. I love talking about this stuff. Keep at it! I never had the patience to even attempt something as awesome as a TAS for this game, so I have a lot of respect for what you're doing.
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
So, I'm going to do it again ! There is no way to find 3x Shadows in Teeming Darkness, indeed, but it's possible in Meeting Ground (but rarer, I think). I think the difficult thing won't be manipulating the type of battles, but making the Sora's movements nice (I'll try not to stop too early, this time). Oh, hum, I don't exactly remember if I had more Kingdom Key cards... I'll send you the list of cards (but I know which cards I need to open the crowded doors) ;). ... I must admit I've forgotten to read this page (but I've saved it into my "favorites" [Sorry, I don't know how it's called in English... Saving the url of a page to have easier access]) I won't hesitate to ask you ;) ! You know, I can't do a Speedrun : it would annoy me more than doing a TAS !
New PCSX2-rr
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
Honestly, Sora's movements don't even necessarily need to be nice. If you're getting the same battle every time, you it's pretty clear what you're doing when you move slightly erratically. Good luck and keep me posted.
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I've looked at the RNG for a bit. I have a real simple script for VBA that, all it does, is predict what the next RNG value will be and count how many RNG rolls the game makes. The counter usually resets if you load state, but if it resets during other times, the game is doing something nifty with the RNG instead. I have no clue as to what the game actually does with the RNG itself, just that I think I got the basic "Next RNG" formula. There's probably other ways the game deals with the RNG, such as exiting the decks menu, but knowing this much might help. Honestly, I have no clue how much you know already. 16 bytes at address 02034030 looks suspiciously like the RNG. Download KH_RNG.lua
Language: lua

local R4s= memory.readdwordsigned --***************************************************************************** local function Roll(rTbl) --***************************************************************************** return bit.band(0xFFFFFFFF,bit.bxor( bit.lshift(rTbl[2], 2),bit.lshift(rTbl[4], 1), bit.rshift(rTbl[1],30),bit.rshift(rTbl[3],31) )) end local T= {0,0,0,0} local Count= 0 --***************************************************************************** local function CountRNG() --***************************************************************************** for i= 0, 1000 do for j= 1, 4 do if T[j] ~= R4s(0x02034030+4*(j-1)) then break end -- If we get here, we matched the RNG! Success! Escape the function now. Count= Count+i return end -- No match this time. Roll our stored value, and check for a match next time. table.insert(T,1,Roll(T)) T[5]= nil end --Give up. Reset counter and our stored RNG value. for i= 1, 4 do T[i]= R4s(0x02034030+4*(i-1)) Count= 0 end end --***************************************************************************** local function Fn() --***************************************************************************** CountRNG() for i= 1, 4 do gui.text(0,7*i,string.format("%8X",T[i])) end gui.text( 0,0,string.format("%8X",Roll(T)),0x00FF00FF) gui.text( 36,0,string.format("%6d",Count)) end gui.register(Fn)
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Brilliant ! Fantastic ! Thanks a lot ! That confirms what I thought : the RNG is really strange :p. The game rolls it 6 times per frame, sometimes... And, sometimes, it doesn't change. But, well, that's a big progress, so, again, THANKS !
New PCSX2-rr
Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 174
Good job finding the RNG address! I found the code that controls the RNG and I'll let you guys know what comes out from reverse-engineering it. It will take some time to modify my RNG watcher from twewy to work. While in the start menu, the addresses are constantly written to by the same code so the starting RNG state should be manipulatable. EDIT: I was able to rewrite the code into lua and now working on a gui and the hooks to monitor it. The RNG code returns data in r0 and r2 for the game to use. R0 contains the random number and r2 contains garbage that is left-over from the code.
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Hello, Here it is : Link to video Thanks a lot, FatRatKnight. Your Lua script was really useful ! All the rooms are Tranquil/Sleeping/Feeble Darkness, except two : one Teeming (because the Enemies cards pop more often) and one Meeting Ground because I ran out of 0 cards and I didn't want to use an another number. Indeed, using Blue Rhapsody card was powerful (two hits and Axel's done). About the RNG : - It changes when an enemy pops. - It changes when the enemy is moving (or even when he isn't moving). There is an exception : when the enemy is running to you and following you. - It changes when HP/Moogle Points are on the ground. Same thing for the EXP points. I would like your help to find the better way to allocate the cards, Ghostwheel. Do I send you a MP or do we speak here ? And, of course, THANK YOU ! If you have any questions, don't hesitate !
New PCSX2-rr
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Hey, you're still working on this! It didn't take much of my time to produce that script, but it shows that a diverse set of skills can really help a TAS. I may have saved some work off your TAS, but by now, you're probably a lot more familiar with the RNG, or at least have an idea of some patterns in there. The run does look a lot smoother now. You did manage to save a few minutes, too. It definitely shows in your battles. Here's hoping Ghostwheel notices this update, as when I played this game, I was confused with the whole card thing and didn't get far, so I'm probably not a good source of strategy.
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Of course, I'm still working ! I won't give up. Indeed, I can manipulate the RNG easier and faster, but I've still trouble to understand the patterns. Sometimes, it's really strange (the same Heartless for 3, 4 or 5 different values in a row...). Axel's battle was really fast and I didn't need to manipulate him : he teleported right to the good place ! I must be frank : I've never finished the Reverse/Rebirth because I couldn't get the card I needed, so, I'm not a good source of strategy too. EDIT : I've tried to contact Ghostwheel but I've got any response. I'll try to find out the best way to use the cards (but I'll need someone else to "check" my decisions... 2 heads are better than one, isn't it ?). So, if you want to help me, please, send me a message ;).
New PCSX2-rr
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Hello ! So, I've done some brainstorming about the cards. If you want to see the files, here is the link. Decisions are made for more than 80% (the other percents will come with more cards). For the Crowned Doors, I preferred to use Teeming Darkness because they are the largest rooms to create and it takes too much time for the GBA. I decided to keep all the Sleeping Darkness cards because they are the smallest rooms (and the Heartless won't be a big problem in this kind of room). But I'm going to use Tranquil and Feeble Darkness, too (especially the low value cards). I still need to earn some cards but I don't think Sora will need to farm again (the Heartless on his way will be enough). If you think you have a good idea about the route planning, please tell it ! ;)
New PCSX2-rr
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Hello everyone, Here is the Second World : Link to video I took the Blizzard Raid and 3 cards (1 is already out of the list). I lost a few frames before opening the last door before Hades because I had to manipulate the RNG and it can't be during a cinematic or while we are in menu. If I didn't do that, Hades would cardbreak me immediately. If you have any question, just ask ;).
New PCSX2-rr
Active player (257)
Joined: 8/12/2013
Posts: 185
Location: Belgium
Hello, Here is the Third World : Wonderland Link to video Now, I have the Crescendo Card. It powers up the Invocation Cards but cancels all the Magic Cards. The Trickmaster couldn't be defeated with Blizzard Raid because the only part Sora can hit is too high. Using Hades Card improves the Attack Cards when HPs are low. Also, the GBA lags when it must draw the Trickmaster.
New PCSX2-rr
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2630)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6435
Location: The land down under.
Only thing I can note is the damage abusing. Wouldn't the Royal Guards damage Sora more than a heartless? Also if the heartless is quicker isn't there a way to make them attack you faster? Otherwise good job.
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