There was no thread for this game, so I decided to make one.
Let me start with some searchs I've made last few week. Current world record is 1:31:49 by Ucpro, which is done with GC version. There's also a forum in SDA for this game, where lots of tricks are stated and still new tricks are constantly being discovered.
Below is a demonstration of incredible tricks I found there. Notice some of them are abandoned in RTS because of its difficulty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NidgDjB5D40http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwCloulJzg
This game was done in AGDQ 2012, too(but not sure it was GC).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB5cFONXRic
Bump.
I was bored, and I couldn't boot Penguin Brothers properly, so I made a testrun of this game. You can see it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5idcbd6cx1bb7uz/pop%20testrun.avi?m(andmovie file)
Sorry about the low quality of video, that was the best I can do.
I didn't try hard to optimize, so it's very suboptimal.
Here's some explanation of this run:
1:02 - this wall climbing isn't supposed to be possible, but I made it by glitch. If you cancel walljumping right before he turns around, you can climb a bit higher.
1:15 - The game slows ifself when you run beside wall in early part. Landscape viewing disable this, so it saves some time. I mean, it should have. For unknown reason, the game still kept slow after using this trick. I think I had to switch the view during wall running.
1:25 - I rolled before cutscene to step further.
1:39 - Being in water slows me, so rolled to gain more speed.
1:42 - Obstacle can be removed by stepping on it.
3:19 - a well-known shortcut.
As you mentioned the WIP is very suboptimal, but its only a test run. I would definitly make a complete test run and try get used to the game and its quirks. Hopefully you might discover something that RTS runners haven't figured out.
A bit late to the party, but its pretty safe to assume the controller the guys is holding is a gamecube controller. I know of no other controller with similar L/R triggers.
As you mentioned the WIP is very suboptimal, but its only a test run. I would definitly make a complete test run and try get used to the game and its quirks. Hopefully you might discover something that RTS runners haven't figured out.
You're right. I was thinking that I could start it in anytime because I already beated this game once and learned some techniques, but it seems more reasonable to look around whole game before embarking new TAS. Maybe I can post my testrun to SDA and ask the forerunners which part I miss.
So far I was still strict to make sure every movement optimized. Now I'm going to give up some of them, and try to find out the physics of this game. This project may take months to complete.
Master of Puppets: I am also sure he used GC version, judging from the fact that the screen features Gamecube buttons in game over screen.
I enjoyed that test run a lot, I hope you decide to do some more. It seems like there's a lot of potential for a very entertaining TAS with those links that you shared in provided in the opening post.
Hey, this is UCpro, the runner of the current record for this game. I come on these forums from time to time and just noticed this thread. Excited to see that there is interest in this game as a TAS. I myself have never done any TAS work.
I am currently working on improving my segmented run. My 1:31:49 run on SDA was a 1:26 at the final save. My new run will be a 1:21 at this final save. I have discovered a lot of new tricks and small shortcuts, as well as advanced sand tank planning for optimal enemy retrievals throughout the game. I haven't been posting progress, but i've finished 3 segments and currently working on the 4th. My goal is to be finished in about a year (I don't have much time to work on this with my current life schedule).
Anyways, please let me know if you have any questions. I could see a TAS pushing around a 1:15 time at the final save (just a random guess). There are so many things that are too difficult to implement in a console run, which unfortunately won't be in my new run.
Btw, the wallrun at the very start of the game (i didn't do it in my old run, but you can see it in Satvara's speed tactics video) is something i have done in my new run, and it saves around 6 seconds from the route you did in your testrun video. Make sure this is implemented.
Hi, UCpro! I wondered whether I can meet you on SDA because there wasn't updates recently on the forum, then you came here. Glad to meet you.
UCpro wrote:
I am currently working on improving my segmented run. My 1:31:49 run on SDA was a 1:26 at the final save. My new run will be a 1:21 at this final save. I have discovered a lot of new tricks and small shortcuts, as well as advanced sand tank planning for optimal enemy retrievals throughout the game. I haven't been posting progress, but i've finished 3 segments and currently working on the 4th. My goal is to be finished in about a year (I don't have much time to work on this with my current life schedule).
Wow, that's amazing. 5 minutes improvement must be challenging in real-time speedrun. I hope you get through it well.
UCpro wrote:
Anyways, please let me know if you have any questions. I could see a TAS pushing around a 1:15 time at the final save (just a random guess). There are so many things that are too difficult to implement in a console run, which unfortunately won't be in my new run.
Thanks, I now feel very reassured by your offer. But I temporarily stopped TASing this, because before taking on serious, long-length project(I'm sure this gonna take at least half a year as I also don't have much time on my schedule), I want to try something relatively easy one. Currently I'm working on Klonoa: Empire of Dreams. I'm assuming this will end on June or July, this year. I'll start touching this by then and seek some advices from you.
UCpro wrote:
Btw, the wallrun at the very start of the game (i didn't do it in my old run, but you can see it in Satvara's speed tactics video) is something i have done in my new run, and it saves around 6 seconds from the route you did in your testrun video. Make sure this is implemented.
That was a thing I was going to ask you about. I was actually aware of the shortcut, so I tried to put it on my testrun, but failed to perform it. Someone else(including Satvara and you) succeeded it without an emulator, so I know I can reproduce it theoritically. I just don't get it why I keep failing to do it, even though I check the timing frame-by-frame. Maybe there's technique I missed?
Super! I can see every small improvement adds up to big time saving. I think TAS route will follow almost everything you did.
Just a few questions, did you take death on @3:30, segment 3 because it's slightly faster than not? Also, what's the mechanism of plot on @1:30, same segment- to give a little float yourself?
I take the death at 3:30 so the next area loads. If you don't die to reset the game at the checkpoint, you can't progress.
At 1:30 i use the 'rewind trick' to extend my jump to reach the pole. A TAS may be able to get position on the edge to do a wallrun to the pole. I couldn't find a way to do it myself on console. Would need lots of testing.
The run I'm doing is more of a time attack, aiming to complete the game in the fastest in-game time at the final save. I sacrifice real-time to save in-game time in a few spots...this would need to be accounted for when doing TAS. When you rewind in this game, the in-game clock also rewinds.
Take my segment 3 for example....from 1:16-1:41 is 25 seconds real time. But with all the rewinds, the actual in-game time during this section is 7 seconds. So that's 18 seconds difference between real-time and game time. If I was focused on real-time, the fastest route through this section real-time is about 23 seconds, but that would also be 23 in-game seconds. Since I want the fastest in-game time, I take the route shown in my segment and sacrifice 2 seconds real-time.
BTW, i have to get to the point at 1:23 because that is a checkpoint that loads the next area. If i didn't get that checkpoint and went straight to do the 'rewind trick' to get to the hole in the wall, I wouldn't be able to progress.
I decideed to pick up that game.
428fc0 = X Speed
428fc4 = Z Speed
428fc8 = Y Speed
d84464 = X Position
d84468 = Z Position
d84460 = Y Position
df7760 = Facing Angle
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Right after running up the first wall at around 1m into the YT encode it looked like you got stuck slightly on the rubble on that rooftop. Can that be done cleaner?
At the end, is the slow-motion really necessary? Feels like you shall be able to do that without slow motion using frame-perfect reactions. Or is that move only available in slow motion? I forget, I haven't played this in years.
Remember to read the HUGE SDA thread about this game, as there are surely some stuff explained there that might otherwise go overlooked.
Good luck on the project, been looking forward to a TAS of this game. Will follow your WIPs.
Right after running up the first wall at around 1m into the YT encode it looked like you got stuck slightly on the rubble on that rooftop. Can that be done cleaner?
At the end, is the slow-motion really necessary? Feels like you shall be able to do that without slow motion using frame-perfect reactions. Or is that move only available in slow motion? I forget, I haven't played this in years.
Remember to read the HUGE SDA thread about this game, as there are surely some stuff explained there that might otherwise go overlooked.
Good luck on the project, been looking forward to a TAS of this game. Will follow your WIPs.
Yeah I read the entire SDA thread last night, ill go back and look at the rubble, maybe a little farther from the ledge I can go up the slant. I dont know how to stop the slow motion.. I just Tapped A to jump and it went all slo-mo.
I think odongdong figured this out. though the game slows down when running on walls, may be the same thing here. so ill try landscape mode then try the jump
Solarplex doing Prince of Persia? Sick :o!
You pretty much pick all the games I've been wanting to see TASed for a long time, good luck!
I've been trying to take requests from people lately :P It's been hard to find a game I really want to do. Was attempting GBA/GBC games but something always brings me back to 3D games. hopefully this time around I wont have to redo Prince of Persia when I finish it like I had to for Luigi!
Link to video
Here's a comparison from previous to current testrun/WIP.
A lot less rolling, its practically the same speed as demonstrated in the comparison yet with walking you obvious have more control over your pathing, rolling is best used for cutscene triggers. First ledge once at the top, if you jump instead of running into the wall its quicker. I did some better pathing just due to walking instead of rolling. At the end, I switched to landscape view where I go slo-mo. you cant stop it from slow motion-ing at the jump but once in landscape view at least he wont continue slow motion through his climb up onto the balcony.
Start @ 3:00 if you;'ve seen the other videos.
Link to video
Link to video
Will definitely need to redo the fight room.. I need more double kills to speed up the processes. torpedo hits are obviously faster due to not being laggy. Staying in landscape view helps a lot too.
Btw, everytime you encode a WIP, you don't have to encode from start, oyu encode where you stopped, it'll make encode much shorters ;)
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Btw, everytime you encode a WIP, you don't have to encode from start, oyu encode where you stopped, it'll make encode much shorters ;)
I usually just walk away when it starts uploading/encoding :P less work for me haha..
fixed up the fight room a little bit more by about 200 frames, I got another double kill.
It's very hard to get double kills because You have to be locked on the one thats farther away while the closer one is in the farther enemy's path. So sometimes its actually easy to torpedo one then walk back and torpedo again then collect sands.
Link to video
Finally this game gets on working, I'll keep following your progress.
By the way, wouldn't it be faster to jump hit on every enemy and finishing him with dagger than seeking double kill? Luck manipulation for better position is pretty easy too as enemies always try to approach you.
