Hello here !
I made some tests with an interim build of bizhawk (r4559) this is what I get with the US version:
Link to video
Even if it's still in bêta, it seems to be working not so bad. I didn't get any major desync troubles.
The only point I've to pay attention is with states. Ex:
- I save state 1
- Some inputs
- I save state 2
- Some other inputs
- Back to state 1
- Yet other inputs
- Well, state 2 is better, back to it
This will desync, so you have to restart from state 1.
I've a question about route, I thought about following (No FunkyWeaponGlitch):
Escape training
Fairy (to be able to get rainbow coins)
Crystal Caves
Beat Boss to get key
Creepy Castle
Use the boss fight to deliver Kongs
Buy what is required:
Nothing for DK (to be checked)
Rocket Barrel for Diddy (I think weapon isn't required, to be checked)
Musical instrument for Lanky
Mini Monkey For Tiny (Same as Diddy, I guess weapon isn't required, to be checked)
All 3 skills and weapon for Chunky
Factory
Beat Mad Jack (With DK, for fun)
Hideout Helm early
Key 8
K. Lumpsy
Final Fight
What do you think about? In my opinion, it's faster than the one used currently by runners.
PS: If someone knows some RAM values, it'll be amazing :D
Is this just a practice/test run? There are loads of mistakes and missed optimizations that real time runners use. I don't want to go through the entire video and type up of my suggestions unless I know this is going to be final/submitted.
This route also does not work. Key 6 doesn't unlock Creepy Castle - key 5 does. And Key 5 takes much longer to get than key 6, so it is almost cetainly not faster. Diddy's gun is required for K. Rool (Tiny's isn't). Chunky doesn't need Gorilla Gone or his gun.
If this is intended to be more than just an emulator test, I suggest watching real time runners twitch.tv/cfox7 and twitch.tv/ringrush quite a bit more before continuing. Do some more game understanding because there is a lot missing in this WIP and route.
A few other people have already expressed interest in TASing this game, so you'll need to compete with them if they follow through on their promises.
One final thing - that emulation looks horrible. The lag is completely wrong and in a game where so many tricks are lag based you simply couldn't do a proper TAS on this.
@RingRush: yes that's just some tests. It's obvious that it isn't optimized (and ugly rendering). I think it's possible to safe 2 or 3 seconds in the training zone. I just tried to made something between true tas and "let's play" :p.
I was sure key 6 (I don't know why... maybe Beaver Bother influence me...) open castle but not... I understand better the any% route now^^ !
@Patashu: I hope it can help in some in N64 core dev and to be honest mupen file doesn't exite me a lot... Even if I only make R&D. but i'll test Mupen special build.
Just another test with a most recent build (4758) :
Link to video
I've notice that the timer is dependent of the lag; in the orange barrel it speeds up when you throw too much orange.
I know it's a usefull tricks for entering factory (for instance) but I didn't know if it's normal for the timer.
I also try to change the graphic plugin (by editing the movie file) and I was surprised the show the movie desync o_O (I'll check it deeper later)
So I'm wondering if a graphic/sound/controller plugin matters (whatever game/emulator used)... and how to chose the right one.
The emulation is still too bad to be TASing this game at the moment.
There is a build of mupen created by Cronikeys that runs the game significantly better but has no reset recording. Cfox said he might try to apply those fixes to BizHawk when the new version is released. Until then, test TASes seem kind of pointless.
As an aside, I know this is suboptimal, but this TAS is still beatable in real time purely due to routing reasons. When a working emulator comes out I either plan to do a route-showcasing run or work closely with a TASer (two or three people have already stepped forward) to make sure a lot of the more obscure tricks and timesavers are implemented. As a reference for the future, your movement strategies in a few places are slow (and I'm not talking about before the first barrel jump, I know why that has to be slow), and you are missing a pretty major timesaver (house warp).
I am the tester of the new BizHawk ,and DK64 seems to run well :P
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
I am the tester of the new BizHawk ,and DK64 seems to run well :P
The physics are subtly wrong in DK64 on normal Mupen. If you're not familiar with the game you might not notice but it changes what is possible compared to console.
I agree with Patashu, RingRush told about House warp (You just have to Out Of Bound the last Barrel, if I'm right); I warp just by jumping and hit the tree at a specific frame; it is definitly impossible on console (and obviously, it is a source of mistakes).
It also occurs with Project 64 1.6.
DK64 is very specially coded. I don't why emulate it is so complicated but one thing is shure, it becomes better year after year. I just want to believe we could work on this soon !
That grab glitch is a well known emulator-only bug. It has been patched in the DK64 version of Mupen as one of the many fixes.
The house warp I'm talking about can be done without the grab glitch though, you clip out of bounds after grabbing the coin.
That grab glitch is a well known emulator-only bug. It has been patched in the DK64 version of Mupen as one of the many fixes.
As the new core is based on mupen's, I hope it can be easy to fixed it.
RingRush wrote:
The house warp I'm talking about can be done without the grab glitch though, you clip out of bounds after grabbing the coin.
By doing a long jump, yup that's what I thought too. Yeah, a monkey can do a long jump while in the air and breath under water!
(I've forgotten to check if the console reset is well recorded; feature absolutly required)
RingRush is a beast!! He just saved 8 minutes over the previous DK64 any% WR by doing a TAS only trick that makes a more difficult/more broken route possible. His live commentary explains well.
Twitch highlight: http://www.twitch.tv/ringrush/c/3901761
do I have to watch all 42 minutes to see the “TAS-only” trick?
No.
Roadmap:
Skip ahead like 3 minutes until he's attempting Hideout Helm Early.
This is the new trick that is incredibly difficult to pull off. To get it this fast in a run is skillful.
Because Hideout Helm is done entirely with DK, the route through it is brand new and has never been seen before.
After getting Key 8, MMM is performed (which is like Funky Weapons Glitch but more complicated/more powerful), and Factory/Mad Jack are traversed and beaten with only DK in MMM state.
Now with Key 8 and Key 3, K.Rool can be accessed and fought. But without unlocking all the other kongs, how is K.Rool beatable? Answer: The game will force you to use each Kong in the fight even if you have not unlocked him. In addition, doing MMM gave you ever move on every kong needed to beat K.Rool, unlike FWG. This is what makes the new route saves so much time.
I ended up watching the whole run, but thanks for the explanation Patashu
it was really nice, I don’t know anything about the game so I don’t know how hard that really is, but I find it annoying when people throw out the “TAS-only” word without even trying
This looks like an awesome game to TAS. Too bad it doesn't emulate well... I love this game though. It looks like it could have lots of movement tricks that could save time (like SM64).
Projects:
Interested in TASing N64 Mario Golf.
GBA Mario Tennis: Power Tour is on hold.
Greetings fellow TASvideos community members!
This here is the thread for the in-the-works TASvideos documentary.
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14328 (read first post for more general info)
I'm calling for a little bit of community input at this time. If you go the last page and read my last message (plus some of my other messages above) you'll see what it's about. In a nutshell we're looking for a game to be used to represent some kind of "average game" that features all your run-o-the-mill types of speedrun/TAS tricks like damage boosting, death abuse etc. See the documentary draft for a complete listing:
https://docs.zoho.com/writer/ropen.do?rid=udqvhaeefa22459bb41718824008eea56cc40 (starts about 1/3 down)
or just check the last post in the thread for a concise listing. Is there anyone here who could assess Donkey Kong 64 (it was specifically suggested by someone) for how well it might cover these needs? Just leave a message in the thread. Remember it's best for the examples to be kinda obvious when you see them.
Thanks!
DK64 is an absolutely awful choice.
For one there is no TAS of it. Nor will there be one in the near future due to a variety of emulator issues (most notably no version emulates lag properly and has reset recording).
Even if there was a TAS it is a really boring run for more than half of it (K Rool & cutscenes). It doesn't have a wide variety of tricks (there would be a lot of moonkicking and orange clipping with tool assistance). Trick diversity died with the advent of widespread orange clips and the helm early route.
The run would be confusing enough that you would have to take significant time to explain what is even happening, since MMM is extremely unintuitive.
In an unrelated note, I do have an emulator that runs the game reasonably well and has TAS tools (although lacks reset recording and thus cannot do a full game run). I am planning a few short, unoptimized demonstrations of some routes and tricks that a full TAS would use, so maybe expect those in the next few weeks.
In an unrelated note, I do have an emulator that runs the game reasonably well and has TAS tools (although lacks reset recording and thus cannot do a full game run). I am planning a few short, unoptimized demonstrations of some routes and tricks that a full TAS would use, so maybe expect those in the next few weeks.
The tricks don't strictly have to be from a TAS (albeit certain types of tricks are common only in TASes).
Okay, someone else thought it would be good for this for some reason... I'm on a 2-week break from this project so I'll decide on this later.
maybe if I or we could get the graphics plugin from sixtyforce 1.0, (which works perfectly for dk64) maybe we can put it into mupen or bizhawk.
this will allow you guys and girls to TAS dk64.
don't assume it will work, DK64 is a fickle thing.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
