By "wrong warp" to the Hall of Fame are we using a more vague term for the ACE that gets enabled via item underflow? (apparently referred to as return-oriented programming)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Dyshonest wrote:
By "wrong warp" to the Hall of Fame are we using a more vague term for the ACE that gets enabled via item underflow? (apparently referred to as return-oriented programming)
I could go in detail on all the terms you are using wrong in this post, but I'll leave the details for someone else to explain and I'll keep it at just answering the question asked.
No, "wrong warp" is not ACE, nor is anything else the run does. It's just memory corruption.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
By "wrong warp" to the Hall of Fame are we using a more vague term for the ACE that gets enabled via item underflow? (apparently referred to as return-oriented programming)
I could go in detail on all the terms you are using wrong in this post, but I'll leave the details for someone else to explain and I'll keep it at just answering the question asked.
No, "wrong warp" is not ACE, nor is anything else the run does. It's just memory corruption.
Well no, this might be ACE depending on whether or not item underflow was utilized to do it, or CoolTrainer for that matter.
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=381206#381206
ACE isn't just writing code via inputs or anything nor does it involve the PC going to wrong places.
By "wrong warp" to the Hall of Fame are we using a more vague term for the ACE that gets enabled via item underflow? (apparently referred to as return-oriented programming)
I could go in detail on all the terms you are using wrong in this post, but I'll leave the details for someone else to explain and I'll keep it at just answering the question asked.
No, "wrong warp" is not ACE, nor is anything else the run does. It's just memory corruption.
Well no, this might be ACE depending on whether or not item underflow was utilized to do it, or CoolTrainer for that matter.
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=381206#381206
ACE isn't just writing code via inputs or anything nor does it involve the PC going to wrong places.
You misunderstood my post. I just said that you can make a computer execute an arbitrary program without forcing its PC to go to forbidden places. I never said that item underflow or anything that MrWint's run does could be classified as ACE or ROP. Also, it's probably necessary to deliver code via input if you want to do a run using return-oriented programming.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Dyshonest wrote:
Well no, this might be ACE depending on whether or not item underflow was utilized to do it, or CoolTrainer for that matter.
No. It is not.
I don't know what else to say about this, other than that you have no idea what you are talking about. At no point does this run use any form of ACE. Cooltrainer (specifically, what this run does; which is causing the move to appear in the movelist, but not actually using the move) just corrupts memory. Item underflow just corrupts the item counter, which does indeed lead to holes that could be used for ACE, but it never makes use of it. Other glitches such as wrong warping and such also only corrupt memory at worst.
Bottom line: this run does not use ACE of any form by any definition. Period. Please stop arguing otherwise, as that only would further show that you don't know what you are talking about, and it is derailing this submission thread.
Dyshonest wrote:
I have no idea how you ever even came to the concept that this run involves return-oriented programming in any way. There is absolutely no basis anywhere for that assumption to come from.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Bottom line: this run does not use ACE of any form by any definition. Period. Please stop arguing otherwise, as that only would further show that you don't know what you are talking about, and it is derailing this submission thread.
On the other hand, the "memory corruption" here is carefully corrupting the memory to do anything and everything the runner wants.
At no point is there a risk of anything nor does the game lose functionality. "Corrupting" things to be in your favor is different from ACE... how? I'm pretty sure the Pokemon Yellow Pi Day run is considered as using ACE when all it is is careful corruption of specific areas of memory.
I also never got the point of a public response to someone that also includes "do not reply". Why did you reply in public too, then...?
Bottom line: this run does not use ACE of any form by any definition. Period. Please stop arguing otherwise, as that only would further show that you don't know what you are talking about, and it is derailing this submission thread.
On the other hand, the "memory corruption" here is carefully corrupting the memory to do anything and everything the runner wants.
At no point is there a risk of anything nor does the game lose functionality. "Corrupting" things to be in your favor is different from ACE... how? I'm pretty sure the Pokemon Yellow Pi Day run is considered as using ACE when all it is is careful corruption of specific areas of memory.
I also never got the point of a public response to someone that also includes "do not reply". Why did you reply in public too, then...?
Okay, we get it, you have all your facts wrong and misplaced in your head. Now, it's a really douchebag move to derail a thread about submission of someone else, so would you please, please stop being such an asshole about everything?
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Dyshonest wrote:
On the other hand, the "memory corruption" here is carefully corrupting the memory to do anything and everything the runner wants.
Memory corruption, even to the extent it is used in this run, does not even come close to doing "anything" the runner wants. If it was, this run would be a tenth of its length and would just instantiate every Pokémon species in a box through memory corruption, and not have to go through the effort of, well, the whole two hours of what this run is doing. Try drawing pi graphics all over the screen with just memory corruption and without ACE and tell me how that works out.
Dyshonest wrote:
At no point is there a risk of anything nor does the game lose functionality.
Of course there is. Did you read the submission text about "bad" Cooltrainers and how the run goes out of its way to handle these accordingly to prevent crashing the game?
Dyshonest wrote:
"Corrupting" things to be in your favor is different from ACE... how? I'm pretty sure the Pokemon Yellow Pi Day run is considered as using ACE when all it is is careful corruption of specific areas of memory.
The difference between memory corruption and ACE is the execution part. Haven't you learned your lesson from the tail end of this topic? Memory corruption depends on the game reading invalid data, and ACE depends on the game executing invalid (and carefully constructed) data.
In addition, memory corruption without ACE is not nearly as freeform as you think. Cooltrainer, for instance, only modifies certain parts of memory to certain values (as put in the submission text). Missingno only modifies a certain bit to a certain value. All memory corrupting glitches have such restrictions. ACE does not.
I recommend you do not post anything about ACE until you actually have an idea about what it is, what it is not, and what memory corruption is, and what it is not. The above linked thread should explain it all to you.
Dyshonest wrote:
I also never got the point of a public response to someone that also includes "do not reply". Why did you reply in public too, then...?
It's a formality more than anything. By posting in public, the people who read the topic will see how the discussion has headed, rather than seeing it disappear without closure.
PS: People have noted how you ignored every part of my post except the part where I directly talk to you. This pattern has also been noticed in discussions between you and Samsara (among many others) earlier. It seems like you're refusing to learn from the parts of posts that actually contain helpful information. Again, you should reread the explanations by the several people who posted in this topic.
</hr>
Dyshonest wrote:
How intelligent. Yes, your rage-filled insults coming from your freshly-foamed mouth have shown me the way on how to be a proper, constructive person!
This is your final warning. Further topic derail will lead to repercussions.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
No, "wrong warp" is not ACE, nor is anything else the run does. It's just memory corruption.
I was honestly curious about that, so I'm glad that Dyshonest indirectly got it answered. Now if he'd just stop arguing that anything and everything is ACE, we'd be just peachy.
EDIT: I'm also waiting on encode to watch.
