Posted: 7/28/2005 5:44 PM
Post subject: Dr. Chaos
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
OK, maybe this is the game I finally get to do a Speed Run with. However, I want to know if there's enough interest in doing a Speed Run with this before I actually go and do one. I do have a couple of concerns with the game, mainly the fact that killing enemies is useless about 75% of the time because they just instantly respawn, and I'm not sure how exactly I could make the game entertaining to play, but I'm sure I could find a way around that. So anyway, is there enough interest for me to delve into a speed run with? I'm quitting work on August 7th, so I'll definitely have time for it until I go back to school.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 7/28/2005 5:50 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
What's the goal of the game? I just tried it for 2 minues and I ended up in a room, opened a desk and found a gun which I couldn't get. I didn't bother that much though. At first look (those 2 minutes) it didn't looked like a very entertaining game unfortunately. Maybe it's getting better later on. It reminded me a bit of Terror on Elm Street, atleast how the graphics.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 7/28/2005 5:56 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
The goal of the game is to save your brother, who is some scientist who created "Warp Zones" for some reason, but found out that there were monsters and such that resided in them and was captured, so you go to find him. There's 11 different zones. The first ten have you building up a laser gun to beat the final boss with, and the 11th has you fighting the final boss itself. The game is mostly non-linear, with a few exceptions that have you picking up items, like a helmet, some boots, and an item you find in the first warp zone to actually find the ten others. This game was meant to be one of those things where if you tried figuring it out on your own, you were gonna probably be at it for a good long time.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 7/28/2005 5:58 PM
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Mr._Kelly_R._Flewin
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
Walker Boh wrote:
What's the goal of the game? I just tried it for 2 minues and I ended up in a room, opened a desk and found a gun which I couldn't get. I didn't bother that much though. At first look (those 2 minutes) it didn't looked like a very entertaining game unfortunately. Maybe it's getting better later on. It reminded me a bit of Terror on Elm Street, atleast how the graphics.
It's one helluva boring game... a LOT of backtracking involved... I mean you have to exit and re-enter rooms from the hall for the items to be respawned, and it's an essential thing at points. You have to go back and forth in the mansion to get to different points and warpzones... well unless you use death as a shortcut... with there only being 1 life, I don't really approve of it... but it may make it easier.. It's interesting... but.. I dunno.. it could be seen as boring... Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Posted: 7/28/2005 6:01 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Ah ok. Thanks. Since I don't know anything about the game really I can't tell you what to do, but from my 2-minute-experience I'm voting no. Sorry =/
/Walker Boh
Posted: 7/28/2005 7:30 PM
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TheAxeMan
Ambassador, Experienced player (710)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I had thought about this game as well, and I have to agree with Walker. It's very slow, though optimized use of the weapons would speed things up. Beating every level would be very tedious. Unless you can find some really cool glitches I don't see it being very interesting.
Posted: 7/29/2005 3:21 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Well I did find a little trick, involving me sacrifice health, to jump on the fish to stay out of the water, because if I hit the water, my speed would be cut in half first. I also found that if you're hit, or you use a grenade in the water, then you'll momentarily have a burst in speed. It doesn't last long, and it also involves me sacrificing health. I'm going to find out about glitches, and find out how to make those monsters appear, even though I'm a jumpy little such-and-such and I hate it when things just randomly appear out of nowhere. Maybe if I can get some help with the glitches, there's a chance this run could happen. The only neat tricks I have are ones that involve me sacrificing health, which I don't get much of. It would be good if say, I just died after killing the boss and re-started at the start point after each warp area, but I just don't know how practical it would be. I'll try and make another video of me jumping on the fishes in the near future with the use of the jump boots.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 8/6/2009 12:39 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
So basically, Rick and I have been looking into this game again. I'm thinking that maybe something major could be found to make it more entertaining. Anyone willing to help look for glitches? :D
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 8/6/2009 1:24 AM
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Supper
Joined: 1/11/2009
Posts: 44
If this one's as easy to break as Ghoul School, I'd be happy to. ;) It certainly has the same low-budget feel going for it. Unfortunately, it's not likely I'll have another stroke of luck on this like last time. I'll poke around and see what I can find, though.
Posted: 8/6/2009 1:27 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
Supper wrote:
If this one's as easy to break as Ghoul School, I'd be happy to. ;) It certainly has the same low-budget feel going for it. Unfortunately, it's not likely I'll have another stroke of luck on this like last time. I'll poke around and see what I can find, though.
Just so you know I found a way to jump twice as high when first starting the game, but nothing other than that.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 8/6/2009 2:07 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Here's all my notes from the game. I love note-dumping! --- Basics: 1.) There are 11 warp points in the game found in different rooms of the house in the "Shadowgate" portion of the game. The first one, which can be found entering a special door in the third room, then opening a window in the room you go into, can be entered without any special equipment. The rest of them need the item you get at the en of the level in order to enter. 2.) There is no real specific "order" the levels can be completed in. One of the levels requires the air helmet in order to go anywhere in, but all of the levels can be accessed in any order, regardless of if you have the item needed to progress further or not. 3.) Weapons are good. Here's what you can get: Knife: You start with it. The damage is poor, it's got short range. Only real good use is on the first boss, as far as I'm aware. Pistol: Long-range, slow rate of fire, does OK damage. Much better than the knife. Machine Gun: Higher rate of fire, does a bit more damage. Grenades: Good damage, and damages everything on the screen, including you. Great on the second boss, and has another practical use, listed later. All items can be uncovered in the first-person Shadowgate-esque rooms. 4.) All the bosses in the game must be defeated. The first ten bosses hold parts of the laser which you need to kill the final boss with. Other: 1.) Enemies can give a height boost if needed, and if timed just right, during a jump. Can help to get onto higher ledges. 2.) Super Jump (found by andrewg): Hold "A" for 1 frame. Hold "Start" for 1 frame. Do nothing for 1 frame. Press "Start" for 1 frame. Press "A" again for 1 frame. Pause & Unpause every other frame (?) This will give a big jumping boost, which could possibly render the jumping shoes a moot item. 3.) It is mostly faster, from what I notice, to suicide with a grenade, die, and go back to the beginning of the game after killing a boss than to do what the game wants you to do and walk yourself back out of the level after killing the boss. All collected weapons will be lost, but you will still keep the laser parts and other important items. Pistol Ammo, Machine Gun Ammo, and Grenades will have to be re-collected though. The only way I see this not being a time saver is if, for whatever weird-ass reason, sticking around on one side of the house is faster than dying and getting back there again. I can't see how that would be though. 4.) Some bosses are immune to some weapons. Good example? First level boss. Not only is it immune to bullets, but its health will increase if you shoot it. Grenades work on only a couple bosses. Boss health will need to be closely monitored in this TAS, because aside from a couple bosses, at this moment I don't know what weapon would work best on each.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 8/6/2009 2:27 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
Rick wrote:
2.) Super Jump (found by andrewg): Hold "A" for 1 frame. Hold "Start" for 1 frame. Do nothing for 1 frame. Press "Start" for 1 frame. Press "A" again for 1 frame. Pause & Unpause every other frame (?)
Also, this is with the "skip lag frames" option in FCEUX. Just so no one gets confused. I haven't really tested out the items, maybe those could help glitch something else? Maybe you could do something like pause glitch bosses (like how it's done in megaman).
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 8/6/2009 2:01 PM
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Time/SpaceMage
He/Him
Joined: 7/31/2005
Posts: 128
Location: Virginia
Holy crap, other people have heard of this game. As a kid I used to see the game's ad in some instruction manuals (maybe Nintendo Power?), but I could never find it. I got the rom and got lost very quickly, haha. It would be cool to see how this game turns out.
Working on a mod of an old favorite in my spare time. PM for updates!
Posted: 8/8/2009 12:27 AM
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Supper
Joined: 1/11/2009
Posts: 44
Well, I took a few hours to slog through this game (mostly in real time, except for some of the ludicrously hard bosses), and I'm wowed by just how awful it is. The house is extremely dull and tedious to navigate. The first-person areas are very annoying if you don't start the game knowing you can punch through walls. The warp zones are okay at first, but after the first few they almost always consist of an absurd number of enemies that will immediately come back after you kill them if you're not standing on top of their spawn point. That said, I didn't really find anything useful to a TAS. I played around with the Super Jump, but unfortunately it can't replace the jump boots -- there are quite a few places where you have to jump out of water onto a high ledge, and the Super Jump can't manage that. You could probably use it to skip some of the hidden ladders, and maybe get into a couple of levels early, but I'm not sure what uses it has besides that. All in all, the game is a very mindless and repetitive experience, and I'm not sure it'll make a good TAS since there doesn't seem to be any way to skip getting all the laser pieces. I can't really see a run of this being published unless a very big sequencer breaker comes up. On the other hand, if you can stomach the entire game, it turns out that the ending is hilariously glitchy: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/312533105/whiteend.fcm Alternate Ending #1: As he frees his brother Ginn from the evil Canbarian, Michael dies and gets a game over. He is then briefly resurrected on the front lawn before warping away and embracing his brother on the ramparts of a castle of glitchy blocks. But personally, I prefer: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1902145796/chaosendwhat.fcm Alternate Ending #2: Michael again defeats Canbarian, but is taken out by his final attack while Ginn tries to give him a thumbs-up. They are then warped to a vast plain, where Ginn weeps as he drags his brother's lifeless corpse to him with his telekinetic powers. Then the LSD kicks in.
Posted: 8/8/2009 3:53 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
Yeah, I'm kinda doubting a TAS of this would ever get published on TASvideos, unless some new glitch is found. :/ Maybe the three of us should work on some other game ;)
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 11/26/2016 8:02 AM
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Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
I've started routing this game for TASMania. Some work done on the first warp zone: User movie #35246838825826035
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 4/10/2022 3:34 AM
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Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2241)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
About five and a half years later, I'm back to taking a look at this game. Link to video I knocked out a quick test of a route idea I had that utilizes the super jump trick found earlier in the thread. The boots are normally required for this area, but it's possible without them using the super jump and some damage boosts. I'm pretty sure having the boots would still be faster here, unfortunately, but I might just keep this route in an optimized run for the TAS-only value of it. "A couple seconds of speed/entertainment tradeoff for an unexpected thing in a game nobody knows nearly enough about to know why it's unexpected" is practically my middle name at this point, anyway.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.