Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
Decided to make a thread for this game, since there isn't one already. The odd thing about this game is that there doesn't seem to be a single full RTS of it in existence, nor are there any videos showing off glitches (pretty much all of these focus on Crash mode only, which there are real-time runs and world-records for.) Here's my newest WIP: Link to video Any contributions/help would be very much appreciated, as 3D racers are a bit harder to TAS than other games.
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Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1093
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
I love this game. I was thinking about running it in real time. I remember that there are various places to go OoB, some are even abused by runners to get lower IL times. You should try to find information about this, as I'm sure a TAS could abuse these OoBs even more. Btw, what would be your goal for a TAS? Beat all championships? Doing a 100% would certainly be cool, but as this would include crash mode, it would probably be a bit too long. 100% without crash mode would be arbitrary, but it would make for a better run in my opinion. For a separate crash mode category, I would suggest starting from a save to use the optimal vehicle for each level.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
andypanther wrote:
Btw, what would be your goal for a TAS? Beat all championships? Doing a 100% would certainly be cool, but as this would include crash mode, it would probably be a bit too long. 100% without crash mode would be arbitrary, but it would make for a better run in my opinion. For a separate crash mode category, I would suggest starting from a save to use the optimal vehicle for each level.
I'm aiming to beat all the championships, but I definitely agree with you that Crash mode deserves its own seperate TAS. If I ever get around to doing a Crash mode TAS, it'd be fun to casually destroy all of those precious world records XD. (Especially being able to get the flying truck glitch every time.)
Joined: 12/10/2006
Posts: 118
Isn't this such a run you are looking for? http://secure.twitch.tv/yummytreesap/c/4001691
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thommy3 wrote:
Isn't this such a run you are looking for? http://secure.twitch.tv/yummytreesap/c/4001691
I think a TAS should go for all the championships, not just the regular ones.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
andypanther wrote:
I love this game. I was thinking about running it in real time. I remember that there are various places to go OoB, some are even abused by runners to get lower IL times. You should try to find information about this, as I'm sure a TAS could abuse these OoBs even more. Btw, what would be your goal for a TAS? Beat all championships? Doing a 100% would certainly be cool, but as this would include crash mode, it would probably be a bit too long. 100% without crash mode would be arbitrary, but it would make for a better run in my opinion. For a separate crash mode category, I would suggest starting from a save to use the optimal vehicle for each level.
Do you know of any videos where these glitches are used? Cos I can't seem to find any :/
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1093
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
andypanther wrote:
There you go: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6BC66AFC802E8040
Thanks! Though, I have to wonder.. what is the actual fastest car in the game? The Supercar or the Custom Roadster? The Custom Roadster has the best in-game speed and acceleration stats in the game, but everyone seems to use the Supercar for speed-runs. Even the Burnout wiki claims the Supercar is the fastest. or ?
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1093
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Rule 1 for racing games: Never trust the displayed stats! You will have to use the emulators tools to find the optimal vehicle.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
andypanther wrote:
Rule 1 for racing games: Never trust the displayed stats! You will have to use the emulators tools to find the optimal vehicle.
Hmm... so I managed to get the memory address for the vehicle speed and did some tests to see what the speeds were, and this is what I got: Custom Roadster - 155MPH without boost, 162MPH with boost Supercar - 160MPH without boost, 165MPH with boost (These speeds don't account for speed increases in mid-air etc.) It's an incredibly small difference, but a difference nonetheless! Guess I shouldn't trust the in-game stats after all, then :P And I should probably add that even if the Custom Roadster does in fact have better acceleration, the quick-start/boost-start will account for that difference anyway. Control doesn't matter when a super-human is playing XD
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
For reference, here is the fastest run I've found of the regular Championship (which is apparently the 2nd best time in the world. Video contains some swearing just so you know :P) http://www.twitch.tv/deathnite11/b/527987893 EDIT: I'll be going back to school tomorrow, so I won't have a lot of time for TASing :/
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Joined: 11/8/2010
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Nice WIP. I don't know the game, but it looks cool, and I'm interested in seeing what you can do with it given tool assistance.
Former player
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Posts: 1093
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Looks like he forfeits races when his points allow him to win the trophy anyway. Now that's of course optimal, but also a bit lame. The site would not mind if you decided against this strat as an entertainment-tradeoff I think, but it's up to you.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 5/8/2014
Posts: 125
Removed this post, because the fix in question turned out to break something else. I'm sure something will get revived to fix the music eventually, though. If you want to play with the music in this game, you can use this build, but it won't be seeing light in master. https://dl.dolphin-emu.org/prs/pr-994-dolphin-latest-x64.7z
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
Okay, now I'm not so sure about doing a TAS of either of the Championship modes, for this reason: "Many racing games, particularly those where there is an obvious optimal route; the precision can trim off a fraction of a second compared to expert players, but for casual viewers the difference is largely unnoticeable." Unlike F-ZERO GX or Mario Kart 64, there aren't really any game-breaking speed exploits or lap skips or anything like that. In Crash, however, there is quite a lot of stupid stuff you can exploit (the bus-flipping glitch immediately comes to mind :P) to get insane damage.
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
This isn't a TAS, but it does use the same glitch that I'll end up using for all levels where it's possible. Yeah, this glitch is pretty crazy XD Link to video
Joined: 12/26/2013
Posts: 11
andypanther wrote:
Rule 1 for racing games: Never trust the displayed stats! You will have to use the emulators tools to find the optimal vehicle.
Something strange I noticed is that the PS2 and GC versions of the game use entirely different displayed stats, though the cars still perform the same. PS2: GameCube: The GameCube stats are actually wrong (which explains why the PS2 version accurately describes the Supercar as being the fastest, which it is.)
Joined: 4/21/2015
Posts: 13
Location: United Kingdom
This is probably obvious to most of you, but not all of this game's out of bounds tricks save time in races; in fact, relatively few of them do. This is because of the game's use of checkpoints (you need to pass each checkpoint in order to pass the Finish and clear the race). The way the game handles passing a checkpoint doesn't really help things either, as you need to pass literally under one in order for the game to register it as passed. One thing you could do is just skim the outside of the track's walls and clear the checkpoint while remaining out of bounds. It's disappointing that you can't just drive past the co-ordinates of the checkpoint to do the same thing, but we can live. To go out of bounds, you have to drive into a 'barrier' (either the green arrows or the red crosses) at a certain angle and point to where you will clip through it: Also note that not all barriers can be clipped through. One reason is because it is in a spot where you can't build up enough speed to clip through it. The second (and the reason why route planning is king here) is because the barrier can't be clipped through. Some barriers actually cause you to crash when you collide with them instead of trying to push you back like normal, so watch out! Oh, and one more thing. Something the video above doesn't show is that sometimes when you go out of bounds, "WRONG WAY" may appear on screen, causing a red barrier to spawn behind you. If you can lap the track and drive through the back of the red barrier, you will be shot forward and get a ~20MPH speed boost! If you can keep boosting for the whole race, you can keep this speed as well. PS. I'm just AdderDee using a new account to match with my YouTube one.
Joined: 4/21/2015
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Location: United Kingdom
I was also thinking of switching to PAL, because there are a ton of OOB glitches which seem completely infeasible on NTSC. Good idea or not?
Spikestuff
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If PAL can be faster in movement than NTSC then it's fine. If not then... shrugs
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1093
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I don't see why PAL should be better, it even runs at the same framerate here. If you're talking about using 50Hz mode to your advantage, though.. Please don't! If there are actual differences in physics that are not related to 50Hz mode, I would agree with choosing PAL.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 4/21/2015
Posts: 13
Location: United Kingdom
Well, I've found out that when people say a given trick is harder on 60Hz, they simply mean that the window of execution is smaller. In that case, 60Hz shouldn't be a problem.
Joined: 4/21/2015
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Location: United Kingdom
I'm planning on picking up this TAS again, and I have a code that makes the game much easier to play, but doesn't affect physical gameplay. It's a code that makes the camera follow the back of the car far more tightly, meaning extremely close near misses will be more possible. Would using this cheat cause sync problems?
DwainiumB
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yorkiesandskittles wrote:
I'm planning on picking up this TAS again, and I have a code that makes the game much easier to play, but doesn't affect physical gameplay. It's a code that makes the camera follow the back of the car far more tightly, meaning extremely close near misses will be more possible. Would using this cheat cause sync problems?
Maybe, since you are modifying the memory values I believe. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Perception is the greatest deception. nitrogenesis: 04:43:04: but TAS is life nitrogenesis: 04:43:23: TAS everyday MKWii TAS Discord: https://discord.gg/z5bu44H MKWii TAS Records: https://goo.gl/ZrGKgt Currently Trying to TAS: On Hold: The Incredibles (GC) The Incredibles: Rise Of The Underminer (GC) Future: (GC) Egg Mania: Eggstreme Madness (Wii) The Adventures of Tintin: The Secret of The Unicorn Mario Kart Wii 32 Track GP
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Just found a near-WR run: http://www.twitch.tv/nolovedeepweb/c/6146747 No clue what the actual WR is, but this beats the one andypanther linked to by over 20 minutes. Both of these runs are Regular Championship only, though.