hx9
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Once my schedule frees up in November, I'll follow the WIPs closely and see what I can do to help from the sidelines. :)
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Well, if the damage-taking stuff starts to seem too complicated, you could do what I always do for MegaMan games and make a cost/benefit table. In this case what this means is that you need to label all the troublesome enemies in a meaningful way, find the fastest way to get past them without taking damage, then compare the frame count to just running straight through the enemy and note down the difference in times for that enemy. Then also do frame count comparisons for going out of your way to collect each heart that happens to be near the main path. Make sure to find a way to note which hearts can be collected before which enemies you encounter. And of course note whenever you actually want to kill off Robin, because that would involve lowering your hearts enough by that point, and collecting a fifth heart would be one way to work toward that while gaining the option to kill yourself again. Otherwise, just subtract frames lost to collecting hearts from frames gained due to sacrificing them and see what the best combinations are, remembering you can't go over 4 hearts. Um... good luck?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Well, if the damage-taking stuff starts to seem too complicated, you could do what I always do for MegaMan games and make a cost/benefit table. In this case what this means is that you need to label all the troublesome enemies in a meaningful way, find the fastest way to get past them without taking damage, then compare the frame count to just running straight through the enemy and note down the difference in times for that enemy. Then also do frame count comparisons for going out of your way to collect each heart that happens to be near the main path. Make sure to find a way to note which hearts can be collected before which enemies you encounter. And of course note whenever you actually want to kill off Robin, because that would involve lowering your hearts enough by that point, and collecting a fifth heart would be one way to work toward that while gaining the option to kill yourself again. Otherwise, just subtract frames lost to collecting hearts from frames gained due to sacrificing them and see what the best combinations are, remembering you can't go over 4 hearts. Um... good luck?
Yes. I might make such a table. However, since I haven't got much time for TASing, not much progress has been made. And I don't expect this run to be finished in a month or so (because some other WIPs have higher priorities). Note: It might be better if I used the closed gate (labelled 27 on the detailed map) to jump through the floor and then return to the room beneath to get the treasure behind Key 25. Test-worthy. Anyhow, if anyone else feel like taking over my WIP or making a new run of Super Robin Hood, feel free to contact me. And I can provide some additional help. EDIT: You can jump into the wall to the left of the ladder, right after you jump through the first wall behind Key 25, but the guardian head in the corner will hold you inside the wall.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Nice Wip!
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Before I forget, I want to mention a neat little bug in Linus Spacehead. At the end of level 3, the "level complete" will appear if the birds knock Linus far enough to the left. This usually happens to me when Linus has been running on the top for a while and an oncoming bird hits him repeatedly, but recently I happened to get hit immediately while making the final jump, and that one hit was enough to reach that second exit. So, now, this is one of those tricks that's contingent on a bird just happening to be in the right place at the right time, but if you do luck out on it happening, it would save several seconds of auto-walking at the end of the level.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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I'm checking back in to report some findings I made when I decided to play all the home computer ports of Robin Hood Legend Quest I could find. Well, all except Atari ST, as I haven't gotten Pasti to work with anything but the Union Demo so far, but I think that version has the same revamped graphics as the Amiga version that make the game look like a knock-off of Gods anyway. I have a strong suspicion that the ZX Spectrum version was the first port made, though, as it's called "The Amazing Adventures of Robin Hood" in-game, suggesting that CodeMasters went through TWO title changes before sticking with "Legend Quest". It's like how the original Super Robin Hood for the Amstrad CPC was only called "Robin Hood" in-game. It was a little interesting to see some of the changes made to accommodate the way the game engine was recreated on those computers, but I think it would get boring for everyone to try to list them all, and they're hardly worth checking out. You know how some Dizzy fans advise against playing Dizzy games on the NES? Well, I would advise against playing this Robin Hood on anything but the NES, as despite how clumsy the controls were then, the home computer versions are even worse! They tend to simplify the game design more than they expand on it, and there are more ways to get trapped into taking a hit because you can't handle the goofy controls just right. And I can't find any ports that have in-game music! Boring! I don't know why they thought we would be happy listening to an endless series of "Kapow"s. So what I really played them for was comparing secrets. I wanted to make sure that the secret passage to skip to the second half of the game was preserved in all the other releases, and it turns out it was! The Commodore 64 version even made it more convenient: Now the passage opens right there on the same floor, behind the key under the falling spike ball, and it skips you ahead past another room! This must have been done because the C64 has to load the upper floors separately, creating a point of no return here. I also found it useful to play the Spectrum and C64 versions because they actually have indications that you've touched a secret spot. (Had too many problems with the Amiga emulation to bother for long, and the CPC version is just a Lazy Spectrum Port.) And all the other secrets that still applied in the ports were still there. But then I found a secret spot on the ZX Spectrum that I had never known about! I found that same spot also made a sound on Commodore 64, and sure enough, when I watched the "secret passage" addresses 0660-0662 while jumping there in the NES version, there was a bit set in 0662. But I had no idea what had changed after touching the spot. So I started doing what I should have done before and played through the NES game again while watching the 0660 area for when I touched something that set a bit. Just by luck when I was jumping off the lift in the halfway point room, I saw 0662 change again, indicating a secret in the corner beside the ladder. And this same secret spot was there on Spectrum and 64, but it still took me a long time to figure out what had changed: It adds two more barrels so that if you haven't already gone after the shield up above, you can go back and climb on the barrels to help you shoot the guard in the back! After some repeated study I also finally noticed what jumping under the first gargoyle in the last room containing goblets did. The tunnel opens up more so that you can just run through rather than having to slide on your knees. I guess the change in convenience of that one part was too subtle for me to notice until today. And that's why I was able to reach the end of the game with all FFs for 0660-0662 after combing the rooms despite only knowing of 15 out of 17 secret passages. I'm pretty sure it's only 17, because the other 7 bits were filled in with regular visible keys. It could be they set bits there because 7 keys have passage-opening type effects rather than the usual lifts and doors. So download an updated map now! http://www.box.net/shared/j25kdf0f12
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Oh, I forgot to remind klmz about the CodeMasters logo skip. But by inserting a reset into klmz's movie, I was able to save 168 frames. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1127836726/superrobinhood-klmz.fm2 If anyone cares, I once did a longplay of the Atari ST version of Robin Hood: Legend Quest, so now you can see what Super Robin Hood looks like with the graphic style of Gods. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g3iLmKsoqU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BljAq-8RtEA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0w7KQWnD4U I later used savestates to play a perfect game, and it turns out the extra life heads will eventually wrap around from the top of the screen and flicker.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Video explaining some secrets. Looks like the map above already explains them though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3re6yHLHx2g Kinda TAS test from youtube. Note "on 2:05 there's something screwed up...I go down to level below and I come out on level ABOVE." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFt1Jo9iDc8 I once again siggest our new hero GoofyDylan8 to try this game. Looks like really fun thing to TAS. Here's the klmz's WIP encoded, to gain interst! Link to video EDIT: A ROM-hacker can work out a common code for all secrets and scan the ROM for all of them. So, if you have friends among ROM-hackers, ask them and post all they could find.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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feos wrote:
I once again siggest our new hero GoofyDylan8 to try this game. Looks like really fun thing to TAS.
I'll give it a shot. First though I need to figure out this map and come up with a general route to test out. I am confused by the maps. Correct me if I am wrong in my understanding. There are 40 visible and 16 invisible keys in the game. Upon collecting each of these keys, which is shown on the map as white text on a black background, it will trigger the corresponding change at black text on white background location. I am assuming if the "black text on white background" result location is on a horizontal or vertical pillar picking up the key causes it to either disappear or appear pending what its initial state is? And if it can cause the pillar/barrel to appear or disappear do we have a list of which events cause things to appear and which causes them to disappear? Is it just that vertical pillars are destroyed and horizontal beams are created? Also there is only one warp in the game that takes you from C on the far left to the "From C ladder?" Finally, though it seems unlikely you could technically beat the game with only 8 rubies and 0 of the other treasures? If those questions can be answered I can either work to try to improve a route by someone else or begin to create my own.
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goofydylan8, I would recommend simply playing through the game once and testing each secret key yourself to see how it works. I tried to place each result character on the center of where the effect takes place, but it isn't really practical to try to scribble out exactly what each and every one does. I was pretty sure I could only find the one warp, but you never know, you could surprise me! Now the thing about the ladder pieces is that you only get the very top piece once you have all six other pieces, and it's that seventh piece that allows you to climb over the brick to reach Marion. However, if you do discover some sort of trick jump that gets you on top without all the pieces, that should be enough to trigger the ending--but darn, I didn't think to try cheating Robin's position in this version to make sure.
feos wrote:
Note "on 2:05 there's something screwed up...I go down to level below and I come out on level ABOVE."
I'd wager this is just a mistake in editing out part of the video, as the score also jumped up by 660 points out of nowhere in between screens.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Post subject: Super Robin Hood
Patryk1023
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I couldn't find any topic about this game. That means, no one even tried to TAS it. So let make one topic. What do you know about glitches for this game, or useful RAM watches.
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I was thinking of that game a bit lately, since now I have the skill to figure its stuff out, but I realized that it's so obvious other people could do it. If you know which bytes represent the triggers, you would need breakpoints to all of them, and then, navigating through all the rooms, watch, which room reads which bit. Then, use hex editor to change the value and see what changes in the as you re-enter the room. And what actions SET those bits can be found out later by namely disasming the code.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Boomerang Kid
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Here is a rough attempt at Boomerang Kid. It is under 5 minutes. There are some inevitable long waits for now, but mostly it's pretty fast. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/17583277889243121 Note that this movie uses a ROM where selecting boomerang kid will start Super robin Hood and Vice versa.
Alyosha
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Hi, I am wondering if anyone is still working on this game. I am thinking of using it for my next project. It looks interesting.
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Alyosha wrote:
Hi, I am wondering if anyone is still working on this game. I am thinking of using it for my next project. It looks interesting.
I don't think so. What game of the 4 do you mean btw?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
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feos wrote:
Alyosha wrote:
Hi, I am wondering if anyone is still working on this game. I am thinking of using it for my next project. It looks interesting.
I don't think so. What game of the 4 do you mean btw?
Super Robin hood in particular, but Dizzy and perhaps boomerang kid also.
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I asked, because that game interested me, I tried to make maps for it (but this thread has a better version of them anyway), then I wanted to do reversing for how unknown things work, and also noticed Bag already figured them out. But if you have a question regarding game's behavior, post right away. I'll dig into anything that's not known yet.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
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feos wrote:
I asked, because that game interested me, I tried to make maps for it (but this thread has a better version of them anyway), then I wanted to do reversing for how unknown things work, and also noticed Bag already figured them out. But if you have a question regarding game's behavior, post right away. I'll dig into anything that's not known yet.
Cool thanks. Yeah I noticed there was a lot of available data but somehow no complete TAS. Seems like a fun one to run so I think I'll give it a try.
Alyosha
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Ok I got a WIP together of the entire game. This was a fun game to TAS, short, action filled, and visually nice. It was much faster then I thought it would be, under 5:30. Of course, most of the credit goes to klmz and Bag of Food for finding all the relevant tricks. Now I will go back and optimize, any suggestions are welcome, this is a first pass. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/19470000730123155 Oh yeah, one thing I don't get, Bag of Food mentioned something about 'inserting a reset' to skip the intro screen. I downloaded klmz's run and it worked but I can't figure out how to recreate it. Can someone more knowledgeable point me in the right direction?
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Reset is added by inserting "1" in a proper line of the movie file, where usually "0" goes, between 2 pipes. Watched it. Amazing job! I bet it will be hell to plan the damage though.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
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Ahhh ok thanks I get the idea now. Well with some fairly obvious optimizing so far I am all the way down to 5:13 using the same route. With the reset added in should be down to 5:10 hmmmm wonder if I can find another 10 seconds to get below 5 minutes...
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No other warps possible? EDIT: I only wonder why you didn't use the good dump - "Quattro Adventure (Camerica) (Aladdin) [!].nes". "[!p]" (your case) means Pending Dump, when a better one is awaited.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
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Oh so that is what that 'p' means, ok I will get the right ROM. I tried looking over the secrets and how they are mapped. I found one that was way out of the others range: 064X :::: 7 : 6 : 5 : 4 : 3 : 2 : 1 : 0 0 :: 00 00 01 02 02 03 04 05 1 :: 07 07 06 06 06 08 09 10 2 :: 10 11 XX 13 13 14 12 15 3 :: 16 17 18 20 20 21 21 19 4 :: 19 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 5 :: J 26 27 26 29 29 30 30 6 :: 32 32 33 40 34 34 31 35 7 :: 35 39 39 37 37 38 38 36 8 :: E 15 12 G F 28 28 Q 9 :: P A B D O N L M A :: K C I ? 0 0 0 0 So far that J is the only one I found so low in the memory. Normal keys start at 0640, but clearly there are only 40 of them. I noticed some of them effect 2 bits, so might have to look at it a bit more closely, maybe more secrets need to be found? Normal keys seem to be scattered throughout all the addresses. I will complete this list to see if any secrets should still remain. It seems that secret H does not effect any of the flags in these addresses, it could be dealt with differently
Alyosha
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Well I can't seem to find the perfect [!] ROM, I guess I fail at the internet. But in the mean time I got down to just under 5 minutes thanks to some better use of damage and hitting a platform timing. WIP V2: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/19519483698146179