Post subject: Help with Super Mario War
Joined: 8/12/2005
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Hey guys! I'm a long time fan of nes videos and have watched tons of movies (that 100% run of Super Mario World was wicked). I'm currently helping develop a PC gamed called Super Mario War (also ported to xbox). If you've never heard of it before, check it out here: http://www.d-nightmare.de/smw/smw.1.10.zip (this is version 1.1. Huge improvements have been made since this release and will be released soon as 1.5) Anyway, the mario physics of the game are pretty close to the original super mario bros, but they aren't exact. I was wondering if you guys would be interested in helping me out. I'm interested in the exact times it takes mario to complete actions. Such as: if you hold down jump how long (in frames) does it take mario to land again? How fast does a fireball move horizontally? How fast does mario accelerate when holding turbo? What is the gravity constant? How high does a star bounce? When mario hits a hard block from below, how fast does he bounce away from it? The list goes on and is pretty long, but I think it would only take an hour or two to get it done. Would anyone be intestered in helping me out? Of course anyone who helps me gets their name in the credits :)
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Mario will take an infinite amount of time to land if you pause the game after jumping. Does that help any?
Post subject: Re: Help with Super Mario War
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two52 wrote:
if you hold down jump how long (in frames) does it take mario to land again? How fast does a fireball move horizontally? How fast does mario accelerate when holding turbo? What is the gravity constant? How high does a star bounce? When mario hits a hard block from below, how fast does he bounce away from it? The list goes on and is pretty long, but I think it would only take an hour or two to get it done.
All depends on lag, I think, and there likely is no "gravity constant" either, but instead I'd believe vertical movement is based on a combination of speed tables & a counter. No, I have never analyzed Super Mario World in that detail. Or did you really talk about Super Mario War? I have never heard of that game...
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We'd be analyzing the original super mario brothers for NES. The "gravity constant" could be determined by measuring how many pixels mario falls after the apex of his jump per frame. If he moves 10 pixels, then 20 pixels, then 40 pixels, then 40 pixels, then 40 pixels, we can determine the gravity acceleration is 10 pixels/frame/frame with a terminal velocity of 40 pixels/frame. Bladegash, Super Mario War 1.5 models these physics you mention perfectly :)
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That should have been 10, then 20, then 30, then 40, then 40.
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Awesome! Can't wait to try it out.
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>if you hold down jump how long (in frames) does it take mario to land again? I had to try this ;P If Mario (in SMB1) makes a full jump standing still it takes him 53 frames to hit the ground again. 100-153 >How high does a star bounce? I tried this too and I got those numbers: 477 -502-503. I think the star was at it's highest point at frame 502 and 503 (it seemed to move one pixel to the right at the time). So if one pixel is one frame the star should bounce 35 pixels up in the air. Uhm, I'm not 100% sure of this because I tested it quite briefly, but well 95% sure ;P
/Walker Boh
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53 frames? less than a second?? sounds like a small jump for mario
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wow i like this game a lot! i beat the comp 4 players ffa :) i would really love to see it completed with power ups!!! (put mario bros 3 musics!) ok the most important thing i noticed is that its too easy to change directions, it definitelly takes more time to stop and turn. another thing, obviously, you need to jump at different heights depending on time pressing jump button.
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FODA wrote:
53 frames? less than a second?? sounds like a small jump for mario
I'm pretty sure it took 53 frames.. unless it were 153. I'll check it again later. Edit: I just checked, it is 53 frames, small or big Mario doesn't seem to matter.
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Are you sure it's not 53 from the apex of his jump to the ground? Because two52 could mean from the time he starts his jump to the time he lands.
Disclaimer: The above post was not intended to make sense.
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That's what I tested. From where Mario leaves the ground, at his highest point, and down again. It takes 53 frames. I've tested it 3 times now with frame advance.
/Walker Boh
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i made this, i hope it helps... it's weird that he moves not very regular, oh well. this is mario going UP during a full height jump in mario 3 (going down is not shown):
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That should end the arguement. However, just asking people is an extremely inefficient way of doing this. As if you want to emulate the movement as close as possible your going to need to get people to take make similar pictures for each length of a jump that the A button is held. Up until you come up with an acceleration algorithm which is close enough to correct. It would be way WAY faster to just download the emulator and test for yourself. Getting it to work isn't very complicated, and i'm sure people would be willing to explain how.
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I had no idea that Mario could jump that far! Awesome ;)
/Walker Boh
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His jump height increases when you run, right? How does that work?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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thats right. you should ask bisqwit to open the rom and search for the math hehehe...
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FODA, you can download the 1.5 RC2 here: http://smw.72dpiarmy.com/smw-bin-1.5b-beta.zip It has fireflower, star and 1up powerups. Making mario grow into big mario has some complicated collision detection things that I still need to work out. Maybe next version... BTW, mario jumps just as high as you hold the jump button in 1.5 (the physics still need to worked out with this, though. How much further should mario climb after the jump button is released?) Thanks guys for taking the time to discuss this. That mario jump graph BoltR made is awesome. I took a close look at it and it looks like mario moves pretty irregularly. He it at the apex of his jump for 6 frames then falls 1 pxl, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 4, 4, 4. Which I think means his terminal velocity is 4.2 pixels/frame and non-constant gravity but somewhere around 0.5 pxl/frame/frame. I'm wondering if most of mario physics is like this... Maybe it would just be better if you guys played RC2 and let me know if you think the physics should be tweeked of if it is just good enough.
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I take it this has nothing to do with the Super Mario War found on http://www.classicgaming.com/tmk/sub-space/roms.shtml.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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No, it's not related. I've never heard of that rom before. That game is insane! :) Looks like some sort of acid trip.
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People seemed to like the previous image so I have made a few more. Holding jump (old image): Holding jump while running full speed: Pressing jump for 1 frame (minimum jump height): Pressing jump for 1 frame while running full speed:
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Test every jump height! And test both walking and running, too. Possibly try some different combinations of walking, running, and stopping to see how it all works.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Post subject: SMW 1.5 Officially Launched
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Super Mario War has officially launched for both PC and xbox. Check out http://smw.72dpiarmy.com/.
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Oh, so the point is to get on top of the other guy? Those computer players keep beating me.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 8/12/2005
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Yeah, the computer is tough. Getting fire power or invincibility should help.