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Spikestuff wrote:
As soon as you start the Challenge you can shoot out a Flipendo which should hit that barrel... Would it help casting out the spell very early for the gnome's positioning?
Interesting idea, I tried it out, and yes! I actually managed to improve the first gnome battle by 2 frames, and am now literally as close to the door as possible when it opens. The later gnome battle I was also able to improve by 6 frames! I would have been happy with it like that, but read on...
FriiedPorkchop wrote:
...if you collected the vile in the first room last, the camera doesn't have to move at all to get to snape.
Good point! That seems so obvious in hindsight, but I bet I'll keep stupidly missing these bigger tricks because I'm too focused on the littler details like turning angles and spell positions. I'll have to redo the entire potions challenge to account for that, because it will effect my alignment throughout, but it should save a heap of time, thanks for pointing that out. It also got me thinking of the flipendo challenge again. When you collect the last star it moves the camera to the exit and back. I'd been combining that cutscene with the one for killing the final gnome, but potentially I could have them separate and collect the star in the early corridor last, for a possibly shorter combined cutscene length. So I redid the flipendo challenge again. Success! Not only is it almost a second faster to do it this way round, but I found a tiny movement optimisation elsewhere, and now both of the gnome battles are pretty much perfect. All in all I'm now very happy with the flipendo challenge. Thanks everyone!
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I have a new WIP up to the end of Hagrid's garden (Dittany). There's been a few improvements: Flipendo is as good as I think I can get it, so unless some new trick is found I won't try and improve it further. I'm also very happy with potions. I spent ages trying to manipulate the gnomes in different ways, and have now managed to avoid taking damage on the first set of gnomes, and I manipulated the second set so that I can take damage once and then use the invincibility frames to avoid taking damage on the way back. Also of note in potions is that I shoot the jar with the last phial when I am right next to it so that I collect it using Harry's expanded hitbox when casting spells (a trick I also used to collect a star in the flipendo challenge), which therefore saves two movement frames. On the way to Hagrid's I pause for two frames on the first gnome, which allows me to bypass it without taking damage. I also take damage when destroying the thorn bush at the end so that I can get through it with the invincibility, which is ~8 frames faster than dodging it. I think Hagrid's Garden is probably the best time you can get, since once you've pushed the egg onto the first switch you're restricted to the global timer for that first platform. I don't think you could make it back on an earlier cycle, since I'm pretty confident my current route is optimal (using the eggs to clip into the hedges a little to roll them onto the bottom two switches). Therefore the only potential improvements would be to make it look neater I guess. There's one gnome I take damage on, and this is unfortunate. I'd like to avoid it, but this happens at the point when you've activated the middle platform but not the lower one, and the time taken to dodge the gnome puts the two platforms in a bad pattern which will mean you have to wait a bit, and will therefore get a later cycle for the final platform at the end of the level. The reason this gnome's pattern can't be manipulated like many others is that you get close enough to it (and therefore its pattern is set) right back when you are rolling the first egg onto the first switch at the start of the map. At that point any wasted time will affect your overall time, so the pattern he's on is effectively compulsory. Meh, in the end I just gave up and took damage. It doesn't waste any time and I'm collecting a bag of health anyway so it has no affect in the long run. Maybe I was over-thinking it. Comments are welcome.
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DaJaWi wrote:
I have a new WIP
Link to video
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Ah, nice one solarplex! It takes me so long to upload even short videos to youtube on my iffy internet connection, so I was only going to do it sparingly (probably first when I got to about 15 mins of gameplay), but that saves me a lot of effort, thanks!
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That was quite clever abusing the wonky collision detection for the egg part. Also reading back, was this part:
There's actually only once when you can't use it and you'd want to (on any%) but its pretty well blocked by a person standing right in front of it. Even if you can get by them, I wouldn't be surprised if the transition zone had been removed for that period since it was supposed to be inaccessible. That happens elsewhere when you get to places you shouldn't.
ever checked to see if it works?
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jlun2 wrote:
Also reading back, was this part: [something about the shortcut...] ever checked to see if it works?
Yeah, actually I checked after I found the way to break the sneaking detection. The shortcut is activated by rummaging in a bookcase, which reveals a doorframe behind it. Unfortunately whenever they want to block the shortcut they have a person in front of it, but they also have a locked door in the doorframe (hidden behind the bookcase) so there is no way to bypass them.
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I've got a video of a new WIP up to the end of the first day (After escaping the trophy room): Link to video For those who watched the previous WIP, the new content begins roughly 9 minutes in. I've also added commentary throughout in the form of subtitles. There is one thing I thought I should explain in more detail though: During the sneaking section, the first prefect is the most complicated to dodge. Unlike the others, he begins by walking, and if you walk up to him at optimum speed then the position he stops is not ideal. Usually I would walk up to the prefect and then turn 90 degrees to leave, but he is standing too near to the right wall, so I cannot flee down-right from him (he would detect me when I hit the wall and had to walk downwards. The method I use is to edge further around him and escape to the bottom-left. This takes a little longer, but is faster than waiting for him to be in a better position before making him stop moving. Feedback and suggestions are welcome, as always. Also feedback on how I set up the subtitles would be appreciated, as I've never tried using any before.
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Very nice! The subtitles were incorporated nicely, and helped clarify some questions I had.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
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Incredible keep it up!
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Thanks for the responses everyone! Making a video with subtitles was fun, but quite time-consuming, so I probably won't do it again until I have ~30 mins of gameplay. I'll stick with just uploading files until then. WIP 5 contains Herbology, Quidditch vs Slytherin, and the troll battle. Honestly, there's nothing particularly interesting here. I'd already done most of the route planning, and there's nothing new from my original test tas video, just better optimisation. In herbology in the bottom left I clip a hedge slightly to avoid the doxie trigger. (Very useful! Doxies are horrible.) You can see the doxies when I hit the trigger on the way out. Also right at the very end when talking to the professor I walk to the exact x position that will minimize camera movement during the cutscene. Quidditch has two sections. The first you wait for the snitch to appear then hunt it down. This can be bypassed by being on exactly the right spot when it appears. The second section is another chase section. It's essentially an autoscroller, except you don't really have the freedom to play around because if you don't stick close enough to the snitch then it slows down, and you also have to collect all the boosts. I skirt close to the other fliers and confuse the autopilot at the end again though, just because I can. The troll is really easy if you stay within a certain range of him. Any closer he attacks, and further and he stops and roars. I guide him close enough to the pit to knock him in as quickly as possible, and then run to the right to minimise the camera movement. Next up is Transfiguration and learning avifors. This is where health management starts to come into play. I still think I'll need to collect two health, because of the time later where I need full health. There's also lots of gnome manipulation, which should be easy now that I have more than one spell. And after that is the Flobberworms, which I'm already having nightmares about optimising.
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DaJaWi wrote:
WIP 5
Link to video
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You mentioned casting spells temporary extends your hitbox. Couldn't the 4th and 5th flower be obtained that way? Also given how slow the camera moves once you killed the troll, would wasting some frames to move closer to the right before firing be faster?
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Thanks again solarplex! That makes things much easier.
jlun2 wrote:
You mentioned casting spells temporary extends your hitbox. Couldn't the 4th and 5th flower be obtained that way? Also given how slow the camera moves once you killed the troll, would wasting some frames to move closer to the right before firing be faster?
The extended hitbox when casting spells has only very occasional uses, because casting spells is just sooo slow. It's only helpful if you happen to be casting a spell anyway, and even then the increase is so minimal that you have to be right up close. Since I don't need to cast a spell near those flowers, then I don't think it would help, unless I'm misunderstanding you? As for the troll and camera, that was actually something I didn't consider, but a quick check shows that no matter how slow it looks, the camera actually moves faster than you (by about 1 pixel per frame), as I think AKheon pointed out previously. I'm currently hitting the troll in the earliest possible frame I can, so that's probably best.
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Just an update, and request for advice: I'd run avifors without too much difficulty, during which I picked up two health, and then the next thing is to head to Hagrid's hut again. As I did this I discovered a way to save time on the thorn bush just before his hut by utilizing Harry's varying hitbox as he changes direction (and a couple of well-timed pauses) to get through it without taking damage. Due to this I no longer needed one of the health in avifors, and editing that out takes redoing the stuff from that point because of differing timings and subpixel alignment. I have been redoing that, but then I realised that this new trick could also be used the first time I go to Hagrid way earlier in the run. Going back to check, it saves 14 frames. If I could sort out alignment issues then I could potentially reuse some of the input I've already done (this would be tricky in itself - despite my misplaced optimism early on, I've rarely been able to sync up two inputs without a lot of effort), but any RNG sections will be different and need redoing, including any enemies and stealth sections, and presumably the flying sections too. Obviously a lot of work. Not only that, but in the garden immediately after where this improvement will happen, the extra 14 frames has put the gnomes in an awful pattern, where I don't know how I'll get through it without losing a bunch of time, and possibly even missing the platform cycle. I'm sure I can work something out, but even knowing the route, issues like this mean redoing sections won't be easy, and I may well lose some of those 14 frames on the way. Is it worth it? I guess it's only been a few weeks of work, although I've been fortunate to have a lot of time to work on it pretty solidly thus far. I'll have less time available in the future, and since I'm not doing anything new my motivation will probably be lower! Part of me wants to not bother unless there was a bigger gain to be had, but if I don't redo things then I'll always know it could be better, no matter how small the potential increase. Thoughts?
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I would say continue on and just write down proper notes so that if when you finish and someone wants to improve it(maybe even after finishing, you could go back and improve), that it is an easier task to clean up due to the knowledge being readily available.
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solarplex wrote:
I would say continue on and just write down proper notes so that if when you finish and someone wants to improve it(maybe even after finishing, you could go back and improve), that it is an easier task to clean up due to the knowledge being readily available.
That seems fair. There's always a chance I (or someone else) will discover other timesavers earlier in the run, and it would be foolish to redo everything multiple times. That said, I may as well upload my WIP for avifors and up to Hagrid's Hut. Avifors: - I take damage running through the tentaculur as this is not only the fastest way through the room, but the door only opens when you feed the doxies to it, and this route does that automatically. - I need just one health now, and so I take the one that can be taken without a detour. - I can now use spell swapping to manipulate gnome starting position and direction, so I can get through gnome areas with optimal movement (no need to dodge). - I have to wait a bit on the dragon statue, so I show off a weird graphical glitch I found where you can change the colour of your spells. Here I cast flipendo with alohomora colours. If I have time later in the run I might show off some of the other weird and cool combinations. To Hagrid's Hut: - No need to pause on the first gnome now that I can manipulate it with spell swapping. - The positions and timings where I cast spells at the thorn bush are the only ones in which I will not take damage from the spikes, while still allowing me to not move in any unnecessary directions. Very happy to discover this. I also found that the transition zone for his door extends wider than it looks if you come from the correct point. Next is Flobberworms. I expect this'll take me a while, as there are many routes to test, and optimising the worms' slow and clunky movement will be painful. It's possible to go either clockwise or anticlockwise around the garden (by either walking under the log in the bottom left like in my test TAS or its possible to go around the bridge without turning it at the far right), and I'll have to try both along with working out what the shortest route to have the worms take is. I guess because they move so slowly it might even be fastest to drag them all to the middle and then take them across one of the moving platforms. Like I said, lots of routes to test. Should be fun!
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Player (163)
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I've posted a new WIP that includes the flobberworms and the lumos challenge, and added commentary from the point when I last had commentary until now: Link to video Since I have commentary in the form of subtitles that should explain most of the tricks, I will only talk about hitboxes, since that's something I haven't mentioned before now. When casting a spell Harry's hitbox is larger horizontally (but not vertically). Because of this I can use it to collect certain items with less movement frames, but only if I would have been collecting an item close to when I was using a spell anyway. Jlun2 made me realise (thanks!) that an extended hitbox could be used to collect any item, which does not always work with the extended spell hitbox (although it does work situationally), but it does work with the larger hitbox when playing the flute. I am therefore going to use the flute to collect certain items early and hit certain warp-zones early. The flute hitbox is only larger horizontally, and only when walking vertically or diagonally, so it cannot be used all the time, but it can be used now and then. You'll see it used for the remainder of the run. The extended spell hitbox will still be used occasionally (like in the basement for lumos) because it increases the hitbox by more pixels and therefore saves more movement frames when it can be used. Hopefully my WIP with commentary is explanatory enough, but feel free to ask questions. And, as always, feedback is welcome.
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WIP 8 continues from where WIP 7 left off until the end of the day. This includes sneaking into Snape's storeroom, escaping, and finding the Mirror of Erised. These have been very tricky sections, and took a lot of work, mainly due to strict platform cycles and complicated enemy manipulations. There's also a lot of unavoidable waiting for platforms unfortunately. At some point I'll make a video with commentary, but for now I'll just address the things that may be least obvious. Escaping the Storeroom: The first part of this level is complex but there's nothing new. The fun starts at the end where the doxies are. For some reason there are two doxies on top of each other (I assume a programming mistake) in the lower right side-room, and taking damage from this double-doxie eats up two health as a result. Because of this, and because of the other doxie in the lower-left room, I need to have full health at this point in order to even survive. I pause when pressing the last switch to manipulate the doxies' movements so that I can ride the final platform to the end without taking damage that would kill me. I'm pretty confident that taking damage as I do and manipulating the doxies as I do is the best route possible. It would be nice if I could take one less damage and therefore not need to collect health earlier in the run, but the time saved by taking damage here is far greater than the time it took to collect the health earlier. The Path to the Mirror of Erised: Loads of moving platforms in this level, and lining up their cycles is very difficult. The main thing to explain is in the top-right section. After making my way up the middle of the pit and onto the three horizontally moving platforms, I cast flipendo upwards from a very precise position, hitting an off-screen switch. This switch would normally be hit later to activate a moving platform that returns you from the end to the start. By hitting it now I can use this 'return platform' to shortcut to the end instead, saving a considerable amount of time. I have to hit the switch as late as possible to make the cycle, but it can be done. The place that this platform takes you to has a small statue which must be hit with avifors to activate the three horizontal platforms in the top left of the level (the last part before the exit). You then have to loop right back around to the start and up across those platforms to the exit. I have to wait a while for the return platform when standing by the statue, which gives me a large amount of time during which I can hit the statue at any point (to start the final platforms moving). Depending on when I hit the statue during this unavoidable waiting period, the final platforms will be in different positions when I eventually reach them. Ideally I would like them to be lined up, so that I could easily run across them, but after much testing I discovered that the only timings that would allow this would be if I could hit the statue earlier than I can get there at all. After a lot more experimentation it turns out that my best option is actually to just hit the statue as early as I can, as that way when you get to the final platforms it only takes a short wait before they line up. This seems rather anticlimactic since hitting the switch as early as you can is what you'd instinctively do in a TAS anyway, but whatever. This does mean though that if a way were discovered to get to the statue on an earlier cycle, then there would be a better timing available (which wouldn't be to hit it as early as possible), but I cannot see any way that I could get to it any earlier. That's probably all completely indecipherable to anyone other than me, but at least my thought process has been recorded somewhere. TL;DR I'm making slow but steady progress. The next major level is learning Wingardium Leviosa, which should actually be pretty simple once I get used to the clunky levitation movements.
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Nice! The storeroom part with doxies looks a bit messy, but I guess it can't be helped. What do you expect the final time to be?
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I know wip 7 has already been encoded, but since it wasn't posted on this thread, I encoded both segments: Link to video
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Thanks J.
AKheon wrote:
The storeroom part with doxies looks a bit messy, but I guess it can't be helped.
Yeah, I really can't see any way around that. Obviously the intended way is to lead them out and into the tentaculur plant, but that would take far too long. It would be a lot neater without that random 'double-doxie', but it being there kind of requires some stilted and messy movements. Fortunately the very next thing after the end of that day is a potions lesson where you get a potion that automatically heals you if you run out of health, which means all that damage you take from the doxies does not limit your options in the rest of the run. As for the final time, I think the run'll be maybe about 56 mins overall? I'm not sure, but something in that ballpark. I used to think it would be a real challenge to get sub-1hr, so I'd be very pleased with that.
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Let's talk about Wingardium Leviosa. It's horrible. To explain why it's horrible, it would be best to explain what happens whenever you use the spell to move an object. This will get pretty complex, so it's probably not worth reading unless you really want to know the intricacies of optimising this game! 1: You cast the spell. Harry has a short wind-up spellcasting animation before the actual spell hitbox appears. 2: The spell starts moving in the direction you were facing. Meanwhile Harry has a short wind-down spellcasting animation. 3: The spellcasting animation ends and Harry can start moving again. 4: The spell hits the object. Harry can no longer move. 5: The object has a short rising animation. Meanwhile the screen moves over to focus on the object. 6: When both the rising animation has finished and the screen has centered on the object (in whichever order they happen), it can be moved. 7: Now you actually move the object. It can only be moved in increments of 8 pixels, each movement taking 8 frames. 8: You cancel the spell and the object falls. Meanwhile the screen moves back to focus on Harry. 9: When the screen is centered on Harry, he can move again. Simple. To optimise this, you obviously want to be minimising the screen movements. Since it has to move both at the start and end of the spell (step 5 and 8), you want Harry to be standing somewhere between the object's starting location and ending location. Because the screen's horizontal and vertical movement speed is constant, there's no Pythagoras required: anywhere between the two locations both vertically and horizontally will be fine. But (surprise) it's not that simple. While the camera movement might be the same regardless of where Harry is, there's another factor that affects the overall time. Whenever Harry casts a spell, he is unable to move for the duration of the long spellcasting animation. The important part to consider here is the wind-down animation, after the spell hitbox itself has appeared and started moving (step 2). The time this animation wastes is normally unavoidable whenever you cast a spell, but there is a way here that it can be made irrelevant. If Harry is close enough to the object then the spell will hit it immediately, and the winding-down spellcasting animation (step 2) will run at the same time as the rising object animation and the camera movement (step 5). Since the latter movements have to happen anyway, and Harry is immobile for them regardless, this saves time overall because no movement time is now lost due to the spellcasting animation. So you might think that the best approach is to be as near to the object as possible when using the spell (but still in between it and its destination), however there's one more factor to consider. If Harry is too close to the object then (during step 5) the camera will have finished moving and focused on the object before the object has finished its rising animation. In that case you still have to wait for the object to rise before it can be moved (step 6), and frames are being wasted where nothing productive can happen. There's a sweet spot further from the object, but still between it and it's destination, where Harry can cast the spell, it will hit the object immediately (combining the animations from step 2 and 5), and then the camera will move over and focus on the object at the same time as it finishes rising (step 6). You can then move the object to its destination and drop it and the screen will move back to Harry, and since he is a bit further from the object's starting position then this camera movement is also shorter, minimising the overall time. Further complicating this (yeah, I know) is the fact that as pointed out earlier in this thread, Harry moves slower than the screen. This means that you don't want to go out of your way to stand in the optimal spot when casting the spell, often you just want to get as close as needed to even hit the object. It's hardest when Harry is walking through an area with many of these objects. You need to work out whether spending several frames to move Harry to a better position is worth the frames it will save on camera movements, taking into account the times when multiple objects can benefit from that better positioning. And of course, the Charms Challenge which I'm working on now has many objects to be moved, with many possible switches to move them to, and various routes between them that Harry could take. Fortunately, after this challenge it can only get easier! This is normally the point when I would apologise for going into too much detail and making everything sound more complicated than it is, but in this case I believe it really is that complicated. :P
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I love reading these technical insights into game mechanics.
Adventures in Lua When did I get a vest?
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WIP 9 As well as the Wingardium Leviosa Challenge it includes the Library and both remaining Quidditch matches since they're so simple. Also, since it's been a while, I made a video with commentary of the last couple of WIPs: Link to video The new content from this WIP begins ~6:41 Next we're really entering the endgame: Heading into the Forbidden Forest to meet Voldemort, and then to the 3rd Floor Corridor. Fun stuff.