Posted: 1/9/2015 6:42 AM
Post subject: Jojo's Bizarre Adventure for PSX - Help me not gamble
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redarremercer
Joined: 1/9/2015
Posts: 7
Location: Eureka
In the Super Story Mode for Jojo's Bizarre Adventure on the Playstation, you come to a point when the user of the Osiris stand asks you to pick which piece of meat his cat will pick up first. The vast majority of the time, you pick the wrong meat because, duh, it's his cat. BUT! There's a very small chance the cat will be a cat and grab the piece of meat you picked first. (I know this because I've seen it on console.) In that case, you win and move on to the next Stand User. And if you lose, you have to move on to another rigged game (which I'm not even sure IS winnable) and then you have to play video poker and in a RTA this can easily stretch out to the better part of half an hour. The dream is of course to be able to skip all that at will in a RTA. As it is, I'd kind of like to be able to put together at least a Vault-level Any% TAS of Jojo's Super Story Mode that skips all the gambling with D'Arby. (Getting all the Secret Factors would involve playing poker and making a Bluff move that shows up when it bloody well feels like it). Thing is, I barely know where to start. Here's a save state: http://wikisend.com/download/449674/videopoker.001 I'm using the USA version on psxjin 2.0.2 TIA
Posted: 1/9/2015 8:41 AM
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CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (608)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4012
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
The easiest way to make the cat choose the meat you picked is to make a savestate beforehand and try different things (press different buttons, wait different amounts of time) before choosing the meat. Once you get the result you want, make a save state. It might help to be recording a movie file at the time so you can have a record of your successful attempt once you get it.
Posted: 1/10/2015 4:49 AM
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redarremercer
Joined: 1/9/2015
Posts: 7
Location: Eureka
CoolKirby wrote:
The easiest way to make the cat choose the meat you picked is to make a savestate beforehand and try different things (press different buttons, wait different amounts of time) before choosing the meat. Once you get the result you want, make a save state. It might help to be recording a movie file at the time so you can have a record of your successful attempt once you get it.
Working on this right now, will post a movie file as soon as I get lucky
Posted: 1/10/2015 7:05 AM
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redarremercer
Joined: 1/9/2015
Posts: 7
Location: Eureka
redarremercer wrote:
Working on this right now, will post a movie file as soon as I get lucky
I did not get lucky AT ALL. Over 300 attempts and nothing; AND the movie file goes to black as soon as I fail. Uploaded this strictly on the thin hope someone might be able to glean SOME useful information out of this http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/453735034/Jojo%27s%20Bizarre%20Adventure%20%5BU%5D%20%5BSLUS-01060%5D-1.pjm
Posted: 1/10/2015 3:19 PM
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Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2121)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Northern California
Homebrew TAS of 2023 Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2016
Is the outcome changing at all, or are you getting the same result every time? If it's changing, then it's just a matter of patience to figure it out. If it hasn't changed at all, then you might have to go back further and look for other ways to manipulate the RNG. I'm not sure about the black screen thing. Perhaps it'd be better to wait until Bizhawk 2.0, which should be out relatively soon with a much better PSX core than psxjin.
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Posted: 1/11/2015 6:14 AM
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redarremercer
Joined: 1/9/2015
Posts: 7
Location: Eureka
I have decided to try the "All Secret Factor" run first. Something about losing over 500 "50/50" bets in a row to some guy with steel eyeshadow and his cat really takes a dump on your soul. That's really the sort of thing that should be done with a LUA script or somesuch but unfortunately I have the coding ability of a frozen snail. Hopefully I'll at least be able to figure out the relevant RAM addresses by the time all's said and done
Posted: 1/11/2015 12:39 PM
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ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
redarremercer wrote:
Something about losing over 500 "50/50" bets in a row to some guy with steel eyeshadow and his cat really takes a dump on your soul.
Are you sure it’s even winnable? Did you read Samsara’s post?
Posted: 1/11/2015 5:47 PM
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redarremercer
Joined: 1/9/2015
Posts: 7
Location: Eureka
ALAKTORN wrote:
redarremercer wrote:
Something about losing over 500 "50/50" bets in a row to some guy with steel eyeshadow and his cat really takes a dump on your soul.
Are you sure it’s even winnable? Did you read Samsara’s post?
I know it's winnable because I've done it on console.
Posted: 1/11/2015 6:07 PM
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ars4326
He/Him
Experienced player (764)
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
How's it going, redarremercer? Have you tried this method? Begin recording at a spot just a bit before this gambling game starts, but play at either normal or reduced speed and see if you can get "lucky" and get the outcome you want. If you do, save a state and watch back from the beginning and look over your input, while trying to narrow down the frame(s) that caused the RNG manipulation. From here, you can usually pinpoint what caused the change and optimize around it. This has worked pretty well for me, on my end, in figuring out how to manipulate AI behavior. Hope this code gets cracked!
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Posted: 1/26/2015 12:22 AM
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redarremercer
Joined: 1/9/2015
Posts: 7
Location: Eureka
ars4326 wrote:
How's it going, redarremercer? Have you tried this method? Begin recording at a spot just a bit before this gambling game starts, but play at either normal or reduced speed and see if you can get "lucky" and get the outcome you want. If you do, save a state and watch back from the beginning and look over your input, while trying to narrow down the frame(s) that caused the RNG manipulation. From here, you can usually pinpoint what caused the change and optimize around it. This has worked pretty well for me, on my end, in figuring out how to manipulate AI behavior. Hope this code gets cracked!
You're lovely, but that's what I tried hundreds of times to no avail. Some sort of script to do that would be helpful: random inputs and then check the RAM to see what happened. To prove I didn't make this up, here it is happening in the Japanese release: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm3785301
Posted: 1/26/2015 10:35 AM
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Scepheo
Player (142)
Joined: 7/16/2009
Posts: 686
Keep going further back: if the game uses an RNG that only progresses when random numbers are needed, then the only way you can manipulate this game is by causing more (or less) random events to happen before it. If that still doesn't work, your best bet is investigating some other random event to figure out the address of the RNG, that way you A) can see exactly what actions do or do not affect the RNG and B) could forcibly manipulate it (by poking the address) until you find a value that makes you win the game. From there it's a matter of trying to manipulate that value when you're at the game.