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Posted: 10/18/2014 10:21 PM
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InfamousKnight
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Joined: 9/12/2014
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Lol. I forgot that Marluxia is the final boss for Sora.. And that Ansem is the final boss for Riku.. I haven't played this game in forever. I am playing the PS3 version for now, but I'm stuck in Twilight town. I'll watch more of your videos tonight. As for the grinding, wouldn't it be faster if you did no grinding at all? I mean, it will make slower boss battles yes, but I think that grinding will take longer than some typical slow fight. Since this is a tas run, you can manipulate what cards are dropped and what cards are used by the boss. So have the boss cast low value cards while high values cards without stocking. If the boss decides to stock cards, break it with a zero card. I have no idea how that is done, but is a pretty nice strategy to eliminate grinding. On top of that, there are level leaps in this game. It can happen. Which will be fun to see.
Posted: 10/19/2014 12:05 AM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
@InfamousKnight You don't need to grind levels, you need to grind map cards so you can go through the world rooms and plot doors. Typically the fastest way to do this is in Traverse Town, but sometimes you need to gain a level in a world or take damage to make berserk easier, in this case, farming efficiently for a short amount of time in other worlds is better as Tounet has done. You also need to obtain blue cards somehow, but Tounet has all the ones he needs. Level actually doesn't affect much at all in the run. HP and sleights are not too much of an influence on damage, and while it is believed damage increases slightly by level (barely enough to even notice), as long as you have enough CP you should be fine. This is why it's ok to get map cards in Traverse and get a lot less experience as a result. The reason the speedruns and TASes do so much damage is effective use of cards. The combos used on Ursula are some of the strongest physical combos in the game, and using an attack like blizzard raid to hit at the apex or getting the most out of summon boost can really jack up your efficiency. Marluxia (Both forms) is weak to physical attacks, so that boss fight will go very quickly. It always hurts my feelings a little when people say this game is "solely based on luck" with single segment speedrunning. The only luck I actually care about is the 1= Blue map card at the end of the game because there's nothing I can do to control that. Over the course of about 2 years, and recently with the help of these fine people, the route has been fine tuned again and again to be one that consistently (about 90% of the time) and naturally gives me a distribution of cards capable of killing every boss quickly if I have the skill to arrange my deck on the fly and use it effectively. I highly encourage you to check out a couple good SS runs because the category is really interesting. As for Riku, even map cards aren't much of a problem at all, and it is pretty skill based. You're right in that there are no criticals in this game. Luck portions are mostly in bosses: -Jafar Platforms (Only a few configurations are really bad with also marginal opportunity for good luck) -Captain Hook (You want him to use the "All zeros" enemy card, or at least give you a decent pattern because your deck sucks) -Parasite Cage can bust out cards that are just higher than anything in your deck -Vexen can use auto life, which depending on world order (You'd have to give Jafar more HP to avoid this) is not able to be broken by the Dispel enemy card and gives an already slower boss more HP -Any time you use Dark Aura on a mobile and small boss like Riku VI, the number of times it hits is out of your control. A common strategy on low HP runs is to copy Riku VIs Sleight Lock enemy card (luck based when he'll bust it out) with Darkside and use Dark Aura over and over, but this luck is very relevant in determining whether this will kill him -Ursula can also bust out higher cards than your deck, and generally the Random Values enemy card is not a better bet for you than overdrive. -Trick card luck on Oogie-Boogie might be relevant, I don't remember. -Hades, Ansem, and Riku VI have patterns and attacks that can kill you without you having much control over the outcome in a speedrun setting. In a TAS, I imagine most of the grinding would be done in Hollow bastion, using Strong Initiative rooms and manipulating 2x Wizard encounters. Then you could grind in Halloween Town for your second world set cards, manipulating Strong Initiatives, 6x Creeper plants, and getting a lot of EXP. It would have to be tested whether the incedental EXP difference would be worth the 1 attack's worth of time per encounter. Take attack on every level up you can, and also probably DP over HP. Abuse berserk whenever possible, but no long term planning makes boss fights easy to figure out.
Posted: 11/22/2014 2:09 PM
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InfamousKnight
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I'm assuming tounets is having trouble with twlight town right now? He said that he was having some frustrations with that world. And I think hes busy with school as well.
Posted: 11/25/2014 6:44 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Well, yes I'm busy with school and I'm sorry to let you without any news ;). I'm still at the 9th world (Neverland). The first crowned door is done and the next ones are going to be faster. About Reverse/Rebirth, I totally agree with Ghostwheel.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 4:05 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Here is (finally) the Ninth World : Neverland (don't forget the pixie dust - is that the good word ? - to fly). Link to video About the battles : Omnislash every time. I almost have all the cards I need : just one more and that's it. After, the worlds are going to be faster and you're going to see only the bosses (and the Moggles). About Hook : Without his second jump, I wouldn't have needed to hit him with a Keyblade but that's the fastest way to kill him. Even with a different RNG (and I can't lose more time to manipulate the RNG that I earn), it's the same thing or it's worst. Ghostwheel, do you have any tricks for 100 Acres Wood (I know I can run directly to the end) ? I don't think I need the Elixir card, but I would like to read your opinion.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:21 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
Hundred Acre Wood, just run through. Elixir costs 1:30 and you don't need it. How many map cards do you get in this world? In the other worlds I figured you just needed a level up for berserk, or wanted to correct a small error in your map card plan, but farming for 8 minutes here doesn't sound like the best option when you can just go back to Traverse and manuipulate 3x Shadow again. Those encounters are over in much less time and give less experience to pick up. In fact, if you needed that many, you shouldn't have been running into encounters in other worlds either, a second farming session in Traverse would have done you the most good. Fight was fine. If you say you can't manipulate no Second Chance, I believe it. Got enough 4-5 hit raids to be really nice. I also want to thank all you guys for your help earlier, I was able to revise the route and bring the record down to 2:26:41, and that run has a death so I can squeeze out another couple minutes.
Posted: 12/17/2014 7:24 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Ok, so I'll run through. Thanks I get about 15 cards here. I needed to do some battles in the other worlds because I had to get more CP and just the 3x Shadow won't be enough. But, indeed, now things have changed. So, I suggest to go back after Hollow Bastion (seventh world) and then return to Traverse Town. If I do that, would it be a good idea or should I do after Atlantica ? But can I get 9 cards in Traverse ? (That's one of the reasons why I did so many battles here)
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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:35 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
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If CP is a problem, make 2 decks, a raids deck and an attack cards deck. Much better than fighting suboptimal encounters. deck edits are really fast in this game After Hollow Bastion should be fine, you can get more cards in Traverse by camping a room, resetting it with more Tranquil/Feeble darkness, an killing only 3x shadow.
Posted: 12/18/2014 6:10 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Oh, CP was a problem ;). Ok, I'll use a "time machine" and change the future. Once again, thank you for all your advices. Without you, that TAS wouldn't be good. Thanks !
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:22 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
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Cool. I don't know how much you're going to have to do over because of this, and I always feel bad making comments that end up making you redo segments. It's the nature of these things that I only really know what you're going to do after you've finished though. Another thing I've been thinking about is using object triggers over moogle rooms to get next level Keyblades. During the initial route planning, picking up moogle points made more sense because each pack was 4-5 useful cards. If the RNG manipulation is really that harsh and you can't get more than 3 of each out of a bunch of packs, whacking objects in Hollow Bastion and Atlantica, respectively, may be a faster source of Crabclaw and Divine rose. The time is pretty close, so it would need to be tested, but I think it's worth looking into.
Posted: 12/24/2014 10:13 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Don't worry about how much I'm going to redo, it's easy with the savestates. I'll take a look but I can't forsee what the RNG will give (that's the biggest problem with this game) But it should be possible. Thanks again !
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:08 PM
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InfamousKnight
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So you're trying to figure out getting keyblades and other items without moogle shopping and using object wacking instead? Doesn't jumping influence the RNG?
Posted: 1/25/2015 6:48 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
It would be similar in principle to using moogle points to get what you want, which we've been doing, and yeah jumping influences it. The problem is timing, in theory 2 sets of moogle points should get you 5 new cards are are all good for your deck, but looking at the footage of the best RNG we reasonably were able to get, we're lucky to get away with 2-3 in a pack with how annoying it is to advance the RNG in the moogle rooms. And this is just for leaf packs, not the more expensive ones, which is an even worse bet. But getting cards out of object triggers is harder than moogle points, and it's not like he's going to be fighting enemies along the way to advance the rng that way. There is a lot of overworld space and a lot of object triggers to use in each world, though, so I think in the end, picking up 5 divine roses and 5 crabclaw should be a peice of cake
Posted: 1/25/2015 6:53 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Well, Ghostwheel has already said everything. Indeed, the RNG is too hard to forsee and getting the best RNG is really really really hard (because they are too many possibilities). Once I'll be back in Atlantica, I'll use the pops out of the Heartless and jumping to manipulate the RNG.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:30 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
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Tounet01 wrote:
Well, Ghostwheel has already said everything. Indeed, the RNG is too hard to forsee and getting the best RNG is really really really hard (because they are too many possibilities). Once I'll be back in Atlantica, I'll use the pops out of the Heartless and jumping to manipulate the RNG.
Just wanted to let you know, Tounet that you'll have to hit up Hollow Bastion too if you want to replace the moogle rooms. Divine rose can only be found there and it's even better than crabclaw (though both are worth getting ~5 of)
Posted: 1/31/2015 2:58 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Ghostwheel wrote:
Just wanted to let you know, Tounet that you'll have to hit up Hollow Bastion too if you want to replace the moogle rooms. Divine rose can only be found there and it's even better than crabclaw (though both are worth getting ~5 of)
Does it mean the farming session should take place before Hollow Bastion ?
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Posted: 2/1/2015 5:19 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
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You can farm Traverse for more map cards anytime, before Hollow Bastion makes a bit of sense.You can keep spawning lots of 3x Shadow, and keep track of what cards you get. To optimally do the last 2 doors you'll need a total of 13 cards with a value of 9. You just need to make sure that somewhere along the way you're hitting object triggers in Hollow Bastion and Atlantica. And remember, there's no need to fight any encounters in the second world, even if you have omnislash.
Posted: 2/2/2015 5:53 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Well, in this case I'll redo the farming session (it was almost done) because I started after Hollow Bastion. Thanks for the warning ;)
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Posted: 2/17/2015 7:42 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Hello everyone ! Here is the Farming session (it's so enjoyable to watch...) ! Link to video So, some explanations : - I got 27 cards for a total of 79 cards. So, all the cards were found (that means that, from that moment on, it's going to be Boss Rush). Here are the cards and the planning, if you want to read all the information. - I made a special deck (1 x Attack and 3 x Blizzard). - Of course, a lot of luck manipulation to have only 3 x Shadows. - And a big big big "thank you" to Ghostwheel (and RatFatKnight for the Lua scripts) !
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Posted: 2/19/2015 11:06 PM
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Ghostwheel
Joined: 3/22/2013
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Cards and planning look solid. Segment looks solid. It was a little weird that you put the attack card at the front of the deck instead of the back where you wouldn't have to scroll past it, but that was a lot of good manipulation.
Posted: 2/20/2015 12:04 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Actually, putting the attack at the front is faster than at the end : it's faster in the menu (a few frames, of course) and, at the beginning of every battle, there are a few frames where it's only possible to scroll the deck (and so, I don't lose any frames).
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Posted: 3/14/2015 6:45 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Hello everyone ! Here is the Seventh World : Hollow Bastion ! Link to video And some explanations : - I got 6 "Divine Rose" I know I had to take 5 but I prefer having cards with a value > 1. - Maleficient is manipulated to attack as quick as possible (even if she is still a bit slow). - She is also manipulated to attack as little as possible. - I did a specific deck for Riku Replica (doing this before or after Maleficient doesn't change anything because I still have to do some menuing) : 3x Divine Rose, 6x Cloud and Crescendo. - 2 Omnislash are used with the Summon Boost, 1 without it and 1 combo of the 3 Divine Rose. If you have any suggestions or remarks, just say. ;)
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Posted: 3/15/2015 12:06 AM
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InfamousKnight
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Very nice. Yeah, those drops are a lot more better than shopping is. Question about that riku replica, does reloading bring back summon cards? This didn't work in the remastered version, as you had to use some restore card to get it back. Or does that just happen if it breaks?
Posted: 3/15/2015 2:25 PM
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Doc_Skellington
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Yes, it does. Do you mean the PS2 version or the PS3 ? I tried today with the PS2 and reloading the deck brings back the summon cards (and I don't think they changed this for the PS3). Maybe are you using Premium cards ? They cost less CP but they can't be reloading by the normal way (you must use a High-Ether, if I remember well). You can recognize them by the color of the value (white = normal, yellow/gold = premium)
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Posted: 3/15/2015 3:36 PM
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InfamousKnight
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It was probably a premium card. And I'm playing the ps3 version. I have played the gba version, but that was like back in 2006.
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