Why would the wizard fight be shorter with more AP? With strong initiative, you kill them in one hit. For that matter, I'm not really sure why wizards are longer (is it the positioning making it harder to scoop up the exp?) but if they are then definitely go for the shadows, no contest. As long as you tested under strong initiative, go for it.
And thanks, Doc. I'm always happy to help.
Hello !
I've finished the farm session !
Link to video
So, after 109 battles, I've got all the cards... Indeed, 2 Wisdoms is a lot faster than 3 Shadows, so, thanks Ghostwheel !
Maleficent is killed faster because Riku has 13 AP.
I'm going to do Ansem once I'm sure I didn't forget a card (I still need to do the brainstorming with all these cards).
Can you see anything improvable ?
EDIT : I'll have to do one more room... I've totally failed 6 floors while taking some notes... So, I'll get one more Strong Initiative and get the missing cards. I should have checked before... STUPID ME !
I skipped the farming after watching 10-20 of the battles, but the process is spot on. Not much to screw up there, but any mistake does cost a lot of time so it's good to be careful. Maleficent is awesome as well.
As for the cards you got, as long as you have enough high value to get the bigger doors in the minimal number of cards, which is probably the case, you'll be optimal. 50 door can be gotten in minimal 6 cards, 30 red door 4.
Yeah, even me, I can't spend 20 minutes to watch something so boring (I did it with a speed between 150 and 200%).
Actually, the 50 door will take 7 cards : getting a 9 card is way too rare and I can't manipulate RNG to get exactly what I need. There are too much possibilities to try them all : each frame of each battle (in this farm session) gives 3 different possibilities... Can you see how many tries and hours I should spend to be sure everything is optimal with 114 battles ? Anyway, the 30 door and all other doors are optimal (I've 13 cards 0 before farming the 6 new cards) ;)
EDIT : Here is the endLink to video
So, I took a Strong Initiative 7 and get the remaining cards.
I did a jump before Ansem to change his pattern and getting touched at the beggining is faster by 1 frame. Overdrive is used, of course.
If you wish to see the files, you can. I chose not to use the Sleeping 9 for the 50 door because this rooms are the fastest to be created. I also (just for fun, it doesn't change anything theorically) decided to use the better cards at the end.
Now, in wich order should I do the first worlds ? Is Traverse, Agrabah, Neverland, Monstro good ?
Since you have all the cards, you should probably not do Traverse first. In a TAS setting where you can manipulate patterns/Jafar Platforms/Trick cards, I'm unsure what will be the fastest. You want to do slower bosses first, unless they require going dark mode, then it's faster to put them off. I wouldn't set world order until you've ironed out TAS strategies for each. If I had to guess, you probably need to do Monstro or Argrabah first, then the other one of those two, then Neverland, then Traverse. I'm assuming Jafar Platforms are easier to deal with than Cage, and that Hook's AI and cards are easy as well. If it turns out to be the case that Monstro and Agrabah are pretty easy no matter how much health they have, consider doing Neverland first. A final thing to consider is that you may go into dark mode during the hook fight because you can manipulate him to use a high sleight into your 0 and low cards into you high cards. If you do this, you can probably put neverland last because your DPS is higher in Dark Mode and giving him more HP would be beneficial.
For each boss, be sure to test how long it would reasonably take to manipulate dark mode, and compare that to straight up whacking him with overdrive and no dark mode. In Dark mode, you get more mileage out of combos and double jump into attack than sleights most of the time, especially in a TAS when you can manipulate their behavior.
So, we have the same thoughts... Hum, I would say that I can use the property of the ground for Cage (you know, the acid ground that can stop a combo, it may be faster to stop the last hit but I need to do some tests before). For Hook, I guess I can manipulate RNG to get a good battle. For Jafar, I must admit I don't remember how the platforms work (but the pattern is probably determined by RNG at the beginning of the battle and then it doesn't change).
In conclusion, I'll do Agrabah, Monstro and Neverland for the first world and see which one is faster.
Joined: 10/12/2011
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I just like the fact the first one was done on VBAm-rr and now it's BizHawk (VBA-Next).
Anyways, hope you can smash this one out of the park too and get it under the WR of 1:24:21.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
I just like the fact the first one was done on VBAm-rr and now it's BizHawk (VBA-Next).
When I started Sora's Story, Bizhawk didn't have GBA ;).
Spikestuff wrote:
Anyways, hope you can smash this one out of the park too and get it under the WR of 1:24:21.
I even think (can't be sure for now) that it will end at around 1 hour.
Anyway, I put here the 3 versions of the eleventh basement :
Monstro :
Link to video
Getting Dark Mode was quite easy and it made the battle really quick. The only big problem with this boss is that the GBA becomes laggy...
Agrabah :
Link to video
A really great RNG with platforms but Iago moved a bit too much.
Neverland :
Link to video
Dark Mode is already faster than normal attacks. Double jump and attack can be done almost immediately : the game doesn't need Riku to have jumped before he can do the second jump... So, input looks like B/./B/A and it deals 56 HP (AP = 13).
Frames for each world :
Tota / This world / Frames of lag
Agrabah : 86773 / 6158 / 6627
Monstro : 86974 / 6359 / 7077
Neverland : 86202 / 5587 / 6402
As you can see, Neverland is the fastest world but I would choose Monstro because he does a lot of frames of lag... So, having the shortest battle possible is better.
For the next world, I propose Agrabah. I need Dark Mode on Hook, so it's better to put him at the end (as you said).
Your reasoning is sound, I can't think of a way to reduce the lag on Cage, you don't let him spawn anything, his animations just eat up the time. Easy call to make him first.
I actually forgot about All Zeros on Hook *Facepalm* that makes Dark mode and that entire fight trivial in a TAS, so yeah, put that one last.
For Jafar when you get to him, test if getting RNG with the highest platforms to jump from takes longer than otherwise. Once you get good platforms, you can actually lock Jafar out and stop platform changes by ensuring that you play a higher card right before he's about to attack, as I'm sure you've already realized. After that. it's just a matter of Iago being nice.
I wouldn't be surprised if this TAS was done in a couple of weeks, considering the fact that map cards are routed and in the bag. Go forth and conquer!
I actually forgot about All Zeros on Hook *Facepalm*
Don't worry about that ;).
Ghostwheel wrote:
For Jafar when you get to him, test if getting RNG with the highest platforms to jump from takes longer than otherwise. Once you get good platforms, you can actually lock Jafar out and stop platform changes by ensuring that you play a higher card right before he's about to attack, as I'm sure you've already realized. After that. it's just a matter of Iago being nice.
From what I found in this test, it looks like platforms' pattern is defined at the battle's beginning (as I thought), so it'll be "easy" to manipulate.
Ghostwheel wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if this TAS was done in a couple of weeks, considering the fact that map cards are routed and in the bag. Go forth and conquer!
Yeah, that would be nice ! I shall conquer ! :D
EDIT : Here is Agrabah !
Link to video
For Jafar, I couldn't keep attacking Iago because it would change platforms' pattern. About that : the game has some patterns (determined by RNG) and takes one depending on actions and position of Riku. For the rest, it's just Keyb Soul Eater hits.
For Vexen, I had to jump before the battle to be able to get Dark Mode faster. When he went close to a wall, I preferred moving him away but he made a cardbreak... It's faster anyway because it allows spamming double jump attack.
So, let's continue !
Link to video
Quite a great RNG and the boss was nice. I made sure that Soul Eater could hit as most parts of Guard Armor as possible, but it's hard when you only have 5 cards (hopefully, they didn't choose to use this deck for Neverland).
I think it could be possible to spread your attacks better so you don't leave one limb hanging before the torso. At least on Sora, any attack should be able to hit 3 limbs on once, and looking at the footage, that's probably true for Riku too. Stocking cards at first to get down to 3 cards might be wise, as you might get better DPS with faster reloads and only full combos. If you go that route, it's conceivable that you could have a way to naturally get to dark mode, in which case a single jump and attack cleans up the arms very quickly, and double jump attack clears the torso.
Here is the new version !
Link to video
Actually, using Sleight to reduce the number of cards is slower than keeping them all. Making sure to hit 3 or 4 parts can be (a lot) longer sometimes, so I tried to do my best between attacking fast or hitting more than 2 limbs. Unfortunately, Dark Mode can't be used because it would be really slow. This version of Guard Armor is around 75 frames faster but the world is only 15 frames (RNG stuff again).
And here is NeverlandLink to video
Captain Hook : 556 HP : Manipulation to get him use All Zeros. After that, it's just double jump and attack.
Riku Replica : 1120 HP : Dark Mode and Overdrive. Not much to say.
First segment looks a whole lot better and the second is as clean as it gets. Nice job!
Guess you have to consider world order for the second set. Since Berserk stacks multiplicitively with dark mode, it might be worth the time wasted to take damage sometimes, depending on how quickly enemies can be manipulated to hit you. you should definitely do similar testing to the first world set (damage/dark mode comparison) but also look at how fast each non-hades boss is when you stick them in the second slot.
Thanks !
So, I'm going to do all 4 worlds on the 7th basement and see if some of them don't ask Berserk (but I think that Berserk + DM is faster for every boss).
I do a new post where I'll add the 4 worlds. And thanks to the useful guide of Samsara, you can now see in 60fps ;).
Coliseum :
Link to video
A really great RNG and a perfect boss : fast Dark Mode and then he (almost) didn't try to attack.
Coliseum 2 :
I only show you the alternative version from Hades since the beginning is exactly the same.
Link to video
The main change is that I allow him to use Temper Flare. Then, he did 3 attacks (just enough to get Berserk) and died. It's only 645 frames longer. I definitely think it's the fastest way but I'll try the two other possibilities (getting Berserk on Ursula and during a random battle).
Atlantica :
I won't do an encode because Berserk is needed : my DPS isn't enough to kill her by a good way. Each of my attempts fails because she starts moving around.
There is still a problem : getting Berserk with Ursula may be quite hard. BUT I've got an idea : if I do Coliseum first, then Atlantica, I can use Hades to deal some damage to Riku (or already getting low HP). I'll have to do the test, though.
Halloween :
Whatever I do, I can't get one cycle for Oogie (even by using only the first 2 attacks) : I always miss 2 hits. BUT I've noticed that if I do the world as following : Olympus, Atlantica, Wonderland and Halloween, I can keep Berserk from Trickmaster (I would get 9992 after Ursula and 11061 after Trickmaster, so I wouldn't level up).
Wonderland :
Link to video
A quite decent RNG. Getting Berserk from it shouldn't be hard.
So, what do you think ? Is doing Olympus, Atlantica, Wonderland and Halloween in this order a good idea ?
You say you can use hades to damage Riku before Altantica, but I find it hard to believe you won't automatically level up during that fight. Edit: Oh wow, looking at that segment again, you don't. That's surprising.
Alternatively, you could be at 95 HP for ursula because the lightning bolt damage math means you can't go in with 80 HP, you get killed before you can get berserked.
You could also just get into an encounter with some sea neons and take damage there or something, but I find it difficult to believe it'll be faster
Looking at the new segment, Hades damage time is comparable to Ursula's so definitely test that. Both are way faster than an encounter though (even just the entrance and escape animation)
Yeah it might require another hit on one or two bosses, but it might not as well, depending on which attacks are needed. Trickmaster's HP was also tricky from my Sora Berserk testing. I don't think you'll need 95 for him but it's possible so definitely test that too. If not, taking Hades damage from the get go is probably the best way.
The experience number is just perfect here, optimal to get both double beserks without even having to go back and manipulate it. After the second world set, we won't be so lucky, as the EXP gives a guaranteed 1-2 levels each time.
I don't think you'll need 95 for him but it's possible so definitely test that too.
I did the test while doing this version and it's completely possible (HP are really low but it's possible).
I'm going to do both versions of Atlantica tomorrow (I just take a day off) and post the fastest one.
Hello !
Here is AtlanticaLink to video
Getting low HP on Hades is only 10 frames faster than getting Berserk here.
For more data :
This version of Atlantica is 6690 frames long against 7345
Total : 126770 against 126780
I couldn't get a Gimmick card for this version (I don't know why but whatever I did it didn't pop).
