Posted: 8/30/2005 9:45 PM
Post subject: Frame Reverse?
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Thereisnospoon
Joined: 3/31/2005
Posts: 148
Location: Colorado
Sorry if this in another thread, but I'm not in the mood to read through all of them right now. My question is is it concievable in the future to have a frame reverse feature, essentially an Undo function, that would revert the movie to the previous frame, Basically, just an automatic savestate. I think this would be a very helpful tool for movie making.
Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth. What Truth? There is nospoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that changes, it is only yourself
Posted: 8/31/2005 12:08 AM
Post subject: Re: Frame Reverse?
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
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To my knowledge, this feature is already in VBA and ZSNES. (It's commonly called "Rewind".) It could of course be added to other emulators. EDIT: But at least in VBA and ZSNES it isn't actually a per-frame rewind - currently it goes back multiple frames by some configurable amount. You can set the rewind interval very low to get closer to per-frame rewind, but that will cause emulation performance to be very bad as it's saving the entire state every frame. There are more efficient solutions, I bet PoP:SoT uses one of them, but... EDIT2: I hadn't seen this other topic, but it describes in more detail: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2456
Posted: 9/9/2005 4:48 AM
Post subject: Re: Frame Reverse?
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
nitsuja wrote:
EDIT: But at least in VBA and ZSNES it isn't actually a per-frame rewind - currently it goes back multiple frames by some configurable amount. You can set the rewind interval very low to get closer to per-frame rewind, but that will cause emulation performance to be very bad as it's saving the entire state every frame.
In latest builds of ZSNES, in step by step mode, rewind only goes back a single frame.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 9/9/2005 8:39 AM
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Highness
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Cool feature that should be implanted in all other emulators me thinks. :) I feel that this is somewhat what some of us has been asking for earlier too. The possibility to rewind or fast forward to a desired frame. If you take a look in the Gens forum where the thread "Tools for easier hexediting" page 3 http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2607&start=40 My friend implanted a breakpoint so when you frame skip at fastest speed you can tip in a frame number you wanna stop on, and then it plays along with frame skip until reached. Then a popup box appears and pauses the movie so that you can set speed to normal. However his code wasn't that good and he didn't give me the source for it.. Yet. But this might be an interesting feature as well to add right? Like if you're watching a fullblown FF6 run and you have to run out and forget to make a savestate which you can load when you get back. Then you would have to watch the entire frameskip procedure which can be very annoying. Frameskip + break is good enough right now I feel. Sorry about somewhat loosing the topic there. But I think this feature would be good for rewind as well as fast forward. And I suppose it coulden't be that hard to implant if you're a good programmer right (which I'm not)?
Posted: 9/9/2005 12:51 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
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Maybe I'm wrong but I thought ZSNES already had a better solution to this than requiring fast-forwarding through the whole run to get to one part of it. (Otherwise if rewinding a single frame actually goes back a single frame in the movie, that could require a long wait to emulate everything beforehand the first time it's done from the end of a long movie where you just loaded a save state at the end.)
Posted: 9/9/2005 12:59 PM
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Nach
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Of course it has a better solution, I don't know why you thought otherwise.
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Posted: 9/9/2005 1:03 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (278)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
It still seems like cheating to me to just make extra savestates to do it... I would rather you found a way to reverse the flow of information through the processor!
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Posted: 9/9/2005 1:05 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
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FYI, in ZSNES netplay, in order to correct a desync, it rewinds a frame when they don't match. So it makes a save in RAM every single frame, on most PCs as long as you don't opt for crazy high image quality, there is no performance hit.
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Posted: 9/10/2005 3:14 PM
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Saturn
Player (209)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I also think the rewind option is absolute unnecessary on snes9x since we have the savestates which are much easier to use at any point you wish. Also there is a risk of desyncing while rewinding which would require much (in my opinion unneeded) work to fix this problem.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
Posted: 9/14/2005 9:45 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
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Hmmm, I thought I replied to this last week but maybe that was right when the site went down.
Saturn wrote:
I also think the rewind option is absolute unnecessary on snes9x since we have the savestates which are much easier to use at any point you wish.
Unnecessary, yes, but it would be useful at least for some people. Snes9x doesn't have the necessary infrastructure to support it in the same way as ZSNES, though (or at least not with its current movie format or in any versions of Snes9x I've seen so far).