Yeah, I really need to fix that game resources page, the innacuracies and weasel words are too grating to me now.
Anyways: when you are rolling and you jump, you have no horizontal control. Meaning the aerial speed cap is irrelevant after a rolling jump (spindash and jump also counts). In Sonic 1, the ground speed cap is also irrelevant when you are rolling because you can't accelerate when rolling (except for slope-based acceleration).
When you roll out of a legde, the aerial speed cap is relevant because you didn't jump from a rolling state. Likewise, jumping from a running state, running off ledges, or hitting springs that launch you up also make you susceptible to the aerial speed cap.
Joined: 10/6/2011
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DDRKhat wrote:
As far as I understood jumping from a rolling state gave you 0 horizontal control and you didn't want to [>] until you hit a ceiling, then you could and your speed would be locked in.
Nope, after hitting the ceiling you still don’t have horizontal control. If you are trying to guess why GoddessMaria claimed it was slower to jump than to continue rolling, my guess will be that she repeated her first mistake by releasing the jump button too early. For more info, see the “jumping” section behind Aglar’s link.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
As far as I understood jumping from a rolling state gave you 0 horizontal control and you didn't want to [>] until you hit a ceiling, then you could and your speed would be locked in.
Nope, after hitting the ceiling you still don’t have horizontal control. If you are trying to guess why GoddessMaria claimed it was slower to jump than to continue rolling, my guess will be that she repeated her first mistake by releasing the jump button too early. For more info, see the “jumping” section behind Aglar’s link.
To clarify, I did not mean that you re-assumed horizontal control (you do not get this until you land). I had meant that if you are so interested in holding forwards then you can do so once you have hit a ceiling as it will not pull you to speed cap.
2 Player mode TAS
Well, I took a time of do a TAS about this, only for fun.
It would be great to do something like this, and make it public. I prepared the first zone, nothing more.
I am thinking how to make it more interesting. For example:
- EHZ: Win Sonic
- MCZ: Win Tails
- CNZ: Tiebreaker
It could be useful and entertaining. What say they?[/url]
Current Projects:
- GBA: Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising
Future Proyects:
- Genesis games
- GBA games
Hey just wanted to post a quick project I made for fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eY3LJ3YgkQ
gmv: http://bombch.us/BB7v
You can read the video description for more details but in short I played the game at normal speed with a USB-controller but using savestate-points mid-level to optimise without any additional tools. Final ingame time is 13:45. Rerecord count says 11k but it's probably a bit less since I used the same file for a lot of testing and also bound the loads to buttons on the controller meaning a lot of loading the same states over and over to make sure I was on the right one.
Also tell me if the quality is good, it should be 4k 60fps when it's done processing.
EDIT: Apparently YT doesn't support 4k with 60fps videos, but it's 1080p at least which is good.
EH1 New Route
Okay. I managed to improve the first zone by around 60 frames saved. I'm very inspired: P
I would like you, who are experts (because unfortunately I have no idea yet to get a high-speed in loops) to cope and improve more completely and more optimization this zone.[/url]
Current Projects:
- GBA: Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising
Future Proyects:
- Genesis games
- GBA games
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
Oh, what a surprise!
The acceleration in the loops is based on utilizing as many short-jumps as possible, there are small corners which allow you jumping and immediately landing again, I think you already noticed that. Also, an important part of getting the speed over 5600 is using the slope before, which isn’t available in your case, so it may not be possible to get that kind of speed in your run, but well, your run already shows that Aglar’s TAS needs an update. BTW, there are also at least 2 improveable stages:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSiPFgAZX08
This is my testrun. CNZ2 boss is badly done, so, CNZ2 can be done in 0:37 or even 0:36.
Btw, the improvement is less than 60 frames, no?
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Actually, it is an approximate number.
I compare it with the Aglar's movie and I think improved so much and I think with the speed within the loops will not be enough (unless there is a way) and are less frames.
If Aglar read this, I hope you can help
Current Projects:
- GBA: Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising
Future Proyects:
- Genesis games
- GBA games
Joined: 10/6/2011
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Location: RU · ID · AM
I think Tee-N-Tee could help us. He proved himself able to aglarize runs without Aglar. I could try myself, but I don't think I can do it — in fact, I already tried this route (will add a prooflink later), and got a result worse than yours.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
EH1 incomplete
I have been able to optimize in some parts of the zone (EH1) and improve a little. Only it needs to finish the last part of the zone because I couldn't make that Sonic follow run without the need to jump and I'm half tired to continue.
I think this would be the final to finish the first area, unless there is an even better optimization.
Current Projects:
- GBA: Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising
Future Proyects:
- Genesis games
- GBA games
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
I'll check it out and look if I could do something on weekend. I cannot promise you successful result, but I will do my best… :)
Btw you probably missed one place near the beginning, where you could take a slight boost, I will check it up as well.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
Sorry, Kiske, I have to say that aglarizing this TAS is beyond my abilities.
At first, I went some pixels ahead of you, but then I saw how you broke the monitor at 0:05.43 and my brain exploded. The only thing I could say was “lolwut?”. Yeah, in the whole my experience of TASing this game I never saw something like that. So my improvement went to hell — I had no idea how to reproduce that madness. And I deleted the gmv and took yours.
Then I went to the loops. I couldn’t do it as good as you probably expect, and my final result is 0:15.21
Beleive me, someday we’ll see Sonic finally break into the 0:14 area. Amy and Knuckles already did that. :)
Anyway, now I only have one question: if I give you a gmv, which is very slightly (1-2 frames) faster than yours in the very beginning, could you please redo your monitor madness, because I have no idea how come that is possible :-D
This is my gmv without the beginning improvement — only second half improved. But if you help me to redo the “monitor madness”, I think we can make it in less than 0:15.20 :)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/552447788/kiske-wst-sonic2.gmv
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Beleive me, someday we’ll see Sonic finally break into the 0:14 area. Amy and Knuckles already did that. :)
Anyway, now I only have one question: if I give you a gmv, which is very slightly (1-2 frames) faster than yours in the very beginning, could you please redo your monitor madness, because I have no idea how come that is possible :-D
If you still have it, then yes, it would be useful and I can redo this part and can to get good results
Current Projects:
- GBA: Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising
Future Proyects:
- Genesis games
- GBA games
Joined: 10/6/2011
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Here it is, Kiske. It is only 1 frame ahead of you at the point where it ends, but note that the X speed in the end is 4926, which is higher than yours (4745), which may allow further improvement.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
WST wrote:
Beleive me, someday we’ll see Sonic finally break into the 0:14 area
Aglar wrote:
Here's something for you to work further on
Hey, Aglar! Out of curiousity, why did you miss a chance to take an extra boost at 0:04.49? In all honesty, I do not quite get it.
Anyway, congrats on finally aglarizing this being the first person on Earth beating EHZ1 as Sonic (ha! Sonic and Tails, not actually Sonic alone =P) in less than 15 seconds.
Also I really want to know, what’s the trick to break monitors in this crazy way, without getting affected by the rolling speed cap? I think you guys somehow roll for only 1 frame, but how does it happen?
And the last question: at 0:12.19 you jump, but can’t you just apply the “monitor madness” trick once again and then run up a slope and finish the zone exactly like in the current published TAS?
(upd) one more question: in the second loop, you let the rolling speed cap affect you for a few frames, doesn’t that slow you down? If so, is it done in the name of proper alignment or something?
Sorry, friend, I have so many questions… :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
About the monitor thing, if you're 1 pixel in front of it on the frame before you hit it you'll catch some air and thus run again once you land. The adjustment of position needed for this is the answer to your others questions, except for the loop one which I simply didn't spend too much time on. That's the reason why I suggested you to work further on it, have fun ^^
Joined: 10/6/2011
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Location: RU · ID · AM
Aglar wrote:
About the monitor thing, if you're 1 pixel in front of it on the frame before you hit it you'll catch some air and thus run again once you land. The adjustment of position needed for this is the answer to your others questions, except for the loop one which I simply didn't spend too much time on. That's the reason why I suggested you to work further on it, have fun ^^
Ok, boss, we will ^^
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Aglar: out of curiosity, how do you do the run up a slope trick? I ask because I managed to do what WST is calling "monitor madness" on that last monitor, but I haven't had much success running up the last slope. And I am too lazy to test all possibilities of input on the remaining stretch of terrain to do the trick...
Edit: More specifically, can it be done starting from 8961:230 with 4663 sp/f speed?
