Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
WIP4: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/26891031245842673 Overall, 66 frames faster. Stage 1: 21 frames faster. Stage 2: 33 frames faster. Stage 3: 6 frames faster. Stage 4: 6 frames faster. Stage 4 notes I showed off the levitation glitch on the moving platforms, but I didn't find any practical use for it. There are three required jumps on the bridge (blue demons, flame/frog, devil). This dragon is really easy, no manipulation needed. I improved 3 frames on the dragon and 3 frames on the key grab. The key grab improvement is much more impressive. Originally, Arthur grabs the key at X-position 089. At 092, he's too far ahead to grab it. I take damage from the devil at the end of the stage because it causes a fall. When you're falling, you alternate between moving 1 and 2 pixels per 3 frames, rather than the standard 3 pixels per 3 frames. Thus I was able to manipulate Arthur's X-position to 091. At X-position 091 he can grab the key, and he gets to the exit 3 frames faster. (I couldn't use this method on stage 3 because I didn't have armor.)
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
The difficult part of stage 5 is the timing of this moving platform: When I took the right ladder earlier in the level (which is faster in theory)... Memory address 05B7 At the left turnaround point, the platform reaches X-position 088. It moves 2.5 pixels per 3 frames. So its X-position goes like 088-091-093-096-098... when it moves rightward. The right turnaround point of its journey is 010 after going beyond 255. So the rightward pattern finishes as ...253-000-002-005-007-010. Moving leftward is just the reverse order. 010-007-005... until 088. So 178 pixels from one side to the other at 2.5 pixels per 3 frames. The whole one-way journey takes 213 frames. So if the platform is traveling away from you when you reach the cliff, you'll have to wait almost double that amount (426 frames = 7.1 seconds). So you have to manipulate the position of the platform with sub-optimal play earlier in the level. It first appears at the memory address when you reach this point: When I tried the left ladder instead, the platform didn't show up at 05B7. I don't know its memory address. But on either path, going through optimally is going to lead to a wait of about 6 seconds for the platform. It has to be manipulated by wasting some frames, like the big man on stage 2. It's trial and error.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Here's what's happening to me in the run: It's very complicated. Fortunately it's the last super-difficult thing to do in the game. I'm almost ready to move on from this part. It should be a few frames faster than v9. But it's disappointing because a perfect spawn could save about 3 seconds.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3807)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2828
Location: US
Hi Arc, I tried testing this a bit and right now I am on the platform on the left side of the pit and it has just turned around at frame 23030 22870. How does this compare to your run so far? As far as I can tell, the physical spawn location of the platform is always the same , as well as its direction of travel. Jumping seems to just spawn it at different times (not entirely sure why yet)
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
22870 sounds great. It's better than what I have at the moment.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3807)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2828
Location: US
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27193714994568875 Here it is. The platform is around 05BA I believe, so you can see which jump is triggering it. You can start the jump earlier or later to slightly adjust the timing of the spawn. Not sure what other factors there are to consider but so far this is the best I could get. Any thoughts on how much better an optimal spawn would be?
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I see how you got it. It's 05BC. I was watching only 05B1-7 before. Thanks. It always spawns at X-position 093, which is almost the left edge. It moves left to the edge (088) and turns around toward the right edge (010). While making your way to it: 0. Mini-right to left (093-088) 1. Left to right 1 (088-010) 2. Right to left 1 (010-088) 3. Left to right 2 (088-010) 4. Right to left 2 (010-088) 5. Left to right 3 (088-010) 6. Right to left 3 (010-088) So we want the third full right-to-left cycle to sync perfectly with when Arthur reaches the edge of the cliff. Optimally, I can get there around 22825.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I think it's solved now. It's simply a matter of not making a jump before jumping across the 'bat gap.' It's a lost of only 6 frames to kill the bat from the ground. Otherwise, it should look almost perfectly ideal. So this part should be the biggest improvement of the run (3-4 seconds). I just need to play through it optimally now. Alyosha, your version spawned the 093 platform with Arthur at X-position 185 on frame 21578. For comparison, I'm at 21545.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Download GnG.lua
Language: lua

function stuff() Xcam = memory.readbyte(0x64)+memory.readbyte(0x65)*0x100 for i = 0, 18 do id = memory.readbyte(0x4f0+i) y = memory.readbyte(0x509+i) x = memory.readbyte(0x554+i) if x< 10 then x = 10 elseif x>250 then x = 250 end if y< 0 then y = 0 elseif y>210 then y = 210 end if id > 0 then gui.text(x,y,string.format("%X",id),"#00ffffff","#000000ff") end gui.text(30, 10, Xcam) end end emu.registerafter(stuff)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Interesting script there. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27226196688764481 I don't know how long I'll spend on the boss, and so I'll upload WIP5a now. I spawned the platform as early as possible and still made it in time. So it is optimal. The casual viewer of this movie won't even think about how perfect this timing is. But for me it's satisfying to finally see this platform perfected after first TASing this game 12 years ago. I get to the boss at 24418. In v9, I get to the boss at 24652. So it is now 234 frames (3.9 seconds) faster overall than v9. The platform improvement saved 168 frames (2.8 seconds).
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3807)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2828
Location: US
Awesome! Have you thought about doing the 'second quest' as well Arc? Would be nice to have a run with the true ending.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
No. It's the same game. It was common for early-1980s games, being short in length, to use loops in an attempt to increase the replay value for the player who spent $50 per game (which is $100-$150 today via inflation). A TAS is for entertainment. "Repetitive" and "boring" are synonyms. The only game in which it makes sense to TAS a second loop is The Legend of Zelda, because the game changes significantly.
Pokota
He/Him
Joined: 2/5/2014
Posts: 779
There would be subtle differences in the necessary inputs, too, necessitating further science - some of the timings would be different enough just to not be able to copy the first loop's input. It's just not worth running two loops when the second is materially the same as the first.
Adventures in Lua When did I get a vest?
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4042
To me, making a 1st loop only TAS of a ghost and goblins series game is like TASing pokemon gold and stopping when you beat the elite four. But ultimately it's up to the TASer.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Things are going fine with the last part of the run. I think that I saved 6 frames on the stage 5 boss. Stage 6 is quite difficult as well, but I already solved the problems in v9. There's some manipulation to get the unicorn to shoot the fireball for the damage boost, but the casual viewer doesn't even notice it. Getting three shots in the air per jump against the dragon (so you have to jump only twice) requires a frame-perfect method. The toughest part is the first encounter during the ladder zig-zag: If you perform a crouching attack on the first skeleton monkey on the exact right frame, the skeleton monkey on the floor above doesn't activate. If it does activate, it ends up standing on top of the ladder when you climb it (so you have to take damage or wait). Taking damage there isn't an option because of the damage boost earlier. I'm going to try to finish it this weekend.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I'm through stage 6 and have only Astaroth left. There probably won't be an improvement there. Overall, 243 frames faster. If that number holds, it should be 29945 frames. 8:19.08. Need to cut 6 frames to get 8:18.XX. Stage 1: 21 frames faster. Stage 2: 33 frames faster. Stage 3: 6 frames faster. Stage 4: 6 frames faster. Stage 5: 174 frames faster (168 from platform, 6 on boss). Stage 6: 3 frames faster. On stage 6, I gained 6 frames during the zig-zag (3 on the crouch jump, 3 from one less jump). I had to intentionally lose 3 frames to get the right movement pattern in the boss fight. In the bad pattern, the first Satan flies up a little higher and then you can't kill him with the 5 point-blank shots at the end. (It takes 8 shots per Satan.) The boss fight is exactly the same as before. I've tried other ways and this way is best. Edit: Success. I found a way to cut 6 9 15 frames off of the stage 6 boss. 8:18.XX!
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Congratulations, Arc! You've put a lot of work in this project!
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3807)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2828
Location: US
Nice! Will be waiting to see this on the workbench.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Thank you. I don't think that the Astaroth fight is improvable. You can't shoot its legs. It has to be a jump attack to cause damage. It takes 12 shots to kill him. Unfortunately, the attack sequence is 3-4-4-1. The first move has to be a forward jump. Because of the initial distance, there's time for only three shots. The worst part is waiting for the first fireball. If you take a step back and then jump attack, the second fireball just barely hits you. There's no better way other than waiting for the first fireball to pass and then getting four point-blank shots. Taking damage at any point would lose way too much time.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
A guy from sourceforge told me:
At 5 and 6 levels of the game it's possible to save huge chunk of time by damage boosting into the walls. At the 6 level by boosting of the red arremer you can start clipping upwards by jumping as shown in the movie. With good optimization this trick can save ~5 second over current TAS. At the beggining of the level 5 it's possible to perform the same trick and skip first part of the level (as shown in the movie). Also by doing this you prevent enemies from spawning. But I can't met platform cycle. So I end up saving not that much time. But if it possible to manipulate that platform... as i think it can save ~10 second.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/he757ao1gu97mlg/Ghosts%20%27N%20Goblins%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D-0.fm2?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/li22jhez2647ltp/Ghosts%20%27N%20Goblins%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D-7.fm2?dl=0
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Very impressive discoveries. I gave up on wall boosting too quickly. I tried the same idea, but not in those spots. I focused more on testing the right side of both levels. I'll get to work incorporating the boosts into a new movie.
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Really cool stuff! I look forward to seeing this trick implemented in a run. Good luck, Arc!
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
It will take only a few days to do it. The level 5 boost saves 204 frames before the boss. But, I'm going to lose some time on the boss. None of the enemies spawn, but the armor also doesn't spawn. I need to take damage to deliver attack #6 of 8 on the boss, but now I can't. Most of the work for the new movie is fighting the boss. The damage boost is easy. Edit: I found a good method for the boss fight. Level 5 is 195 frames faster. It's no longer possible to manipulate the platform. It spawns when you reach a certain point. I tried to damage boost on the level that has the platform, but it wasn't working. Edit: Right now it looks like the boosts will save about 500 frames overall. Hoping for 8:09.XX or better. There's some work to do on level 6.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I had to confirm that it's still faster to damage boost at the unicorn. It is, barely. The boost is 147 frames faster than taking the ladder. Getting the armor takes 126 frames. And so it's 21 frames faster overall. That's good, because it's more entertaining with both boosts in level 6. I confirmed that you can damage boost on the right side of level 6 as well. I guess I didn't find these boosts because I was focused on gaining height instead of moving sideways. I've tried going sideways through the level 2 house barrier; it doesn't work. I just need to get the level 6 boss in sync and the movie is done.
Player (171)
Joined: 7/1/2016
Posts: 263
Hello! Guy who found the boosts is here. Cmonnne guys. Why you don't even try? :CCC 1. There is different spawns possible at the beginning of the level 5. Do you try to loose some frames at the end of the level 4 and get different enemy spawn at the level 5 and possible faster boost? 2. The enemies and armor didn't spawns because there is a lot of object left at the beginning of the level. By taking extra money bag near the place of the boost (or by killing red arremer) you can make one enemy appear and then by killing it you can spawn another enemy etc. And then take the armor and then maybe use it for another boost. Because you must wait platform anyway it can save some time. 3. The boss of the level 5 pretty easy manipulatable. Just by messing around IN REAL TIME i can make him stay low and kill him faster. http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=02785937255185794689 - here is the movie. Killing the boss 15 frames faster without any frame by frame optimization Sorry for bad english