Genesis Sonic 2 & Knuckles 'any%'

This project began long ago and I thought do it myself but I have learned that aid is important and with Tee-N-Tee, Aglar, WST, and Hat, could make this movie completely.

Objetives

  • Emulator used: Gens 11b + Camhack + SolidityViewer + (partial)HitboxDisplay + LUA HUD for Genesis Sonic games + Predict Animals
  • Aims for fastest in-game time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Manipulates Luck (Some time)
  • Contains Speed/entertainment tradeoffs
  • Take damage to save time

About movie

As I said earlier, this project is a long time in my head, and I was inspired when this thread started to realize the project of 'S2K ringless' (which is to be published shortly) and I could make this movie complete with these authors that helped me and let me take some excellent zones (which will also be in the movie 'S2K ringless').
I was also inspired by the movie Aglar (Sonic 2 TAS), possibly causing an update of it (already talked too: P)

Timetable

ActTime (In-Game)Author input
Emerald Hill 10:14::28All
Emerald Hill 20:33::32Kiske
Chemical Plant 10:14::47Tee-N-Tee
Chemical Plant 20:32::04Kiske
Aquatic Ruin 10:12::52Tee-N-Tee
Aquatic Ruin 20:28::27Tee-N-Tee & Kiske
Casino Night 10:15::40Kiske
Casino Night 20:32::09Kiske
Hill Top 10:23::56Kiske
Hill Top 20:42::59Kiske & WST
Mystic Cave 10:24::20Kiske
Mystic Cave 20:30::21Aglar
Oil Ocean 10:16::56Tee-N-Tee
Oil Ocean 20:29::21Kiske
Metropolis 10:29::04Kiske
Metropolis 20:12::48Kiske
Metropolis 30:47::17Kiske & Tee-N-Tee
Sky Chase2:05::57Kiske
Wing Fortress1:21::08Tee-N-Tee
Death Egg0:40::28Tee-N-Tee
  • Total time: 11:41.22

Tricks and glitches

Look at the sky

This trick is difficult to carry through It. Only serves to zones where it is fighting the boss, and to fighting, there is a height limit, that however if it's jump high, it will not show on the screen and the character will disappear and the display will remain intact while you are fighting the boss. But if there is a high jump and the boss appears when the character is flying over the limit, the limit breaks and when the capsule is broken, the character can look up and lose sight of the animals, so it will disappearance or to save some frames. Only it applies in most zones, because in zones like CP2 becomes impossible to do a high jump, because I do not have a way where you can climb to jump higher and manipulate the limit.

Into the objet

This is easy to do, if there is a box attached to the wall. Knuckles makes a jump and before I fall and break the box, make a small flight to into the wall. This is done if is well positioned between the wall (left or right) and the box (Bottom side), sometimes varies the pixels to be taken to do so. Thanks to this, I can saltearme many places (This is used very often in MZ) and save me a lot of time in-game.

Level by Level comments

Emerald Hill 1

This zone has become a "multiple" work, because we have made a frame wars to optimize this level, which was achieved so far. Luckily in the loops, it could take a reasonable velocity, and disappear the display quickly to manipulate objects and move forward without frustra with the objets.

Emeralh Hill 2

Here I worked and optimized everything I could. For faster to make the loops or other shaped like Sonic's route I take, I can't get same time (in-game) in his movie, and takes 1 frame slower than Sonic's TAS. Here I applied the trick "Look at the sky" (which I explained above) and manipulate animals in the capsule for that them not jump high and do not deviate from the screen and thus make them disappear to return to normal display.

Chemical Plant 1

This is achieved thanks to the trick or glitching that was made with Sonic (Here's a demonstration (By WST)), and has performed with Knuckles and has also achieved, but not as fast as Sonic, so it takes speed a bit ahead to make glitch. I don't know because it is the reason, I have tried thousands of times as it has done with Sonic but not as fast as expected.

Chemical Plant 2

This time, I made a different segment. This is where the character is more stuck because there objects that moving that it becomes impossible to handle, for example, after the first loop to jump on the highest platform. That makes me a little time delay, but only just. Then everything normal until it reaches where the boss fight and manipule explode of boss and animals go in another direction to break capsule and save frames
This also makes losing frames at the start of the next zone, but recovers in CNZ, I don't know as I did, but I was able to recover what was lost in this zone.

Aquatic Ruin 1

In the beginning it's all pretty easy and optimal to make glitch, made in Sonic TAS. Taking or attempting to take the same speed out of the camera to not be delayed and lose speed and time (frames).
With the flight of Knuckles, it is further optimized when entering the top of the loop, and make "more fast" the process of zone.

Aquatic Ruin 2

This does not explain well as possibly Tee-N-Tee knows how to do. From my point of view, this is making the same glitches but so Knuckles left in the air to fight the boss quickly.
Are same glitches,use trick "Look at the sky" with some pauses in-game to do it faster and can regain frames lost previously.

Casino Night 1

This place is one of the easiest and best time to do it. Since it takes the lower path where you can go through the solid for easy entry into the wall and quickly finish this act.

Casino Night 2

At first, I take a leap to land on the trampoline fastly and save 1 or 2 frames. Then I make "Into the objects" trick and so we can quickly end the zone to reach the boss, and the use of manipulation of the capsule to finish this.

Hill Top 1

I took the same route as Sonic, and have taken an advantage where I can saltearme much of the lava zone to not waste time until the wall is up and passed over it without dead crushed.

Hill Top 2

Is taken a route where travels faster in some places, although there is some glitch that can be done, but I don't know yet

Mystic Cave 1

Same Sonic's route. Except for some places where I can move faster because Knuckles does not jump high, so it does not benefit me much.

Mystic Cave 2

Aglar has managed to make this beautiful zip (CP1 style) to stand a good way to defeat the boss faster

Oil Ocean 1

Same Sonic's route. This time in the beginning is pulled faster on oil.

Oil Ocean 2

This is one of the zones that cost me more to do, a matter of speed and jumps, but I've been able to optimize effort and achieve a reasonable time.

Metropolis 1

I have taken new routes and new zips, which is faster to move forward, because the level no have limit higher and lower where they can collide in this zone.

Metropolis 2

Nothing out of the ordinary ... has been manipulated to lower the platform faster, but it does not so fast and the level of Sonic, so it is slower.

Metropolis 3

It has managed to better optimize this part, beginning on the trampoline to go down and perform faster glitch along the way.
In the box it makes me slow some frames, so I see impossible, but it has been achieved.

Wing Fortress

A new discovery of a glitch that is from the beginning and Knuckles can easily pass through walls and get to defeat the boss quickly

Death Egg

Knuckles's jump is enough to attack the boss as in S2, waiting a little the first hit

Posible improvements

So far nothing. In the future I will see if there is any improvement available.

GoddessMaria: Judging.
Samsara: File replaced with a 245 frame faster file. In the future, please post updated files in the thread instead of in the submission text.
GoddessMaria: Alright. So with this one, the question I find myself repeatedly asking in my mind is the potential improvements. I've not been able to notice anything, but at the same time I'm feeling a bit off about this run. Despite that, I believe that this is good enough quality to accept this to Moons.
Spikestuff: Less than 24hours? Alright, Publishing.

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DwainiumB
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Here's a encode to go with the submission. Link to video It's a shame YT doesn't do 480p60fps and below.
Perception is the greatest deception. nitrogenesis: 04:43:04: but TAS is life nitrogenesis: 04:43:23: TAS everyday MKWii TAS Discord: https://discord.gg/z5bu44H MKWii TAS Records: https://goo.gl/ZrGKgt Currently Trying to TAS: On Hold: The Incredibles (GC) The Incredibles: Rise Of The Underminer (GC) Future: (GC) Egg Mania: Eggstreme Madness (Wii) The Adventures of Tintin: The Secret of The Unicorn Mario Kart Wii 32 Track GP
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Really liked all the zips we don't see humans do! Mystic Cave 2 was the coolest one by far.
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I'm not sure if I was entertained more by the new zips or by the hilarious "killing time" input at the end of every stage. Yes vote
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The only mistake visible by a naked eye is at the CPZ2 boss fight, there seems to be a missed frame...
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WST wrote:
The only mistake visible by a naked eye is at the CPZ2 boss fight, there seems to be a missed frame...
See here! I have a problem and find something weird in this zone. When finish CP2, in the current movie, is normal, but, I improve this to 3 frame faster, and find the surprise that I loss some frames
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Kiske wrote:
WST wrote:
The only mistake visible by a naked eye is at the CPZ2 boss fight, there seems to be a missed frame...
See here! I have a problem and find something weird in this zone. When finish CP2, in the current movie, is normal, but, I improve this to 3 frame faster, and find the surprise that I loss some frames
Ok, I see, but I think the animals animation is not counted as the in-game time, while one of your goals is „Aims for fastest in-game time”. Loosing frames on that boss to luck-manipulate animals seems to break this rule. Personally I would prefer to not care of those animals at all, though some people could call me not meticulous enough to be a TASer :)
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Fishaman P wrote:
Really liked all the zips we don't see humans do! Mystic Cave 2 was the coolest one by far.
I personally enjoyed the horizontal underflow in Oil Ocean. /pun
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Sure! And the most wonderful was a spindash through an object in Death Egg 2
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marzojr
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I think you rushed too much for this submission; you should have manipulated all animals first, as well as making sure all possible improvements were done before submitting. Right now, there is at least TeeNTee's new DEZ.
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marzojr wrote:
I think you rushed too much for this submission
I agree. I didn't expect that this submission was submitted before mine, along with Tee-N-Tee, skychase, WST. Upon seeing the video, I could note one idea to improve "Ringless" in a few frames (the latest 2 hits against MTZ Boss).
Kiske wrote:
This will be a little epic, because you might publish the same time 2 movies (any% and ringless)
With these words I thought that Kiske told me that I will take care of the submission of any% and ringless. I don't know what judges will tell here, but I vote cancel this. If Kiske has so anxious to see this published movie, you can show me what you does and I can tell you when it's time. Even I read the information and not well written. Just he says he not knows how have happened certain new glitches.
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I have added some information in the submission, but I will continue later because hurts me my head. I think not cancel this movie, because the only area where I have disadvantages is CP2, the others are ready (Also Death Egg I've put in the film), for the next few days I'll add that a replacement and missing information. The day I publish this I was in a hurry and when he had time added good information (I clarify that I wrote with my words, the co-authors have powers to add a comment if you want), so when I woke up from my nap, I'll finish writing well presentation and could finish this zone.
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That classy extra life ending. I enjoyed this a lot, going out of your way to get that mystic cave skip was interesting.
Enjoys speedruns but hasn't actually tried making any yet.
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Really just in some zones is possible move the camera on top position because Knuckles was at the upper limits of the level while fighting a boss. Then the camera recognized a limit more top on position of the capsule. That explains why he could do in these zones. Emerald Hill Aquatic Ruin Casino Night Mystic Cave Metropolis
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Exactly, so unfortunately I can not do it in other zones, unless there is a new glitch that he can do it. But I see a little impossible, as in OOZ, because even attempting to break the limit of the camera, it will not be possible because it is the very edge (Limit) of the map. I think I've done to optimize all, but CP2, I'll leave it to the end because my head will explode.
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Kiske wrote:
Here's a demonstration (By WST, and has performed with Knuckles and has also achieved, but not as fast as Sonic, so it takes speed a bit ahead to make glitch. I don't know because it is the reason, I have tried thousands of times as it has done with Sonic but not as fast as expected.
The reason of Knuckles being unable (or nearly unable, who knows) to beat CPZ1 in the same way as Sonic is Knuckles’ less jump strength — 1536 against 1664
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Knuckles does not have a capacity of jump greater than or equal to that of Sonic, making it difficult to make some glitches or take speed, among other things to save frames.
Current Projects: Snic & Knuckles 3 - Knuckles 100% - AIZ2 Future Proyects: Genesis games GBx - GBA games
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Kiske… Friend… I am trying myself at Hill Top 2 and to be honest… I am ahead of you by a very lot… :) Even if you do not want to cancel this submission, I really ask you to not forget about a lot of issues with this run — the team which you mentioned in the author list has great potential, it can create way better runs, seriously! Remember our frame war in EHZ, wasn’t it cool? :) P.S.: not going to claim that the run is bad. I really appreciate your work on this, and the level endings are really beautiful, but… Some places just need to be done just a little bit better :) I hope we can return to this run together soon. (upd) I will try to finish this gmv this weekend (upd2) I know your attempt at HTZ2 is faster than mine, published on Youtube, but don’t forget that it was a testrun, the one on Youtube. :)
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I was just working this act and I think you have the solution. The most that I can ask, if we fall behind, ask for a delay of this movie to finish better. I really think that everything is optimized up to HTZ. And some areas are already resolved later. I just hope I don't meet with some surprises.
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Sadly, the moving object later in the level is in a worse position for me than in your case, so I cannot finish the gmv right today, sorry. Have to find a solution to keep the improvement to the end of the stage. If you have mood, you can try with me. Here is the partial gmv: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/573648251/s2k-htz2.gmv As I am a bit (just a little) drunk at this moment, maybe, you’ll be better at inventing a solution for this. Good luck.
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A question, would this run be a separate branch of Sonic 2, or obsolete the current one? After all, it's faster by a few seconds. Yes vote to whatever run comes out of this and WST's collab.
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arandomgameTASer wrote:
A question, would this run be a separate branch of Sonic 2, or obsolete the current one? After all, it's faster by a few seconds. Yes vote to whatever run comes out of this and WST's collab.
This is a different game in essence.
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WST how the well you can load sonic-hud.lua in sonic 2 & knuckles? when i try load the lua, it doesn't support the rom I used RAM Watch to see certain values and sometimes is frustrating
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Hmm, I cannot recall any kind of problems. It's probably because I am using development branch of the HUD script from git. Other possible explaination is that I replaced some checksum in rom-check.lua, but I doubt. Sorry, cannot tell you exactly — online from my phone.
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Question, why are you guys submitting this while knowing that it can be improved?
If you want to see some of my TASes, http://www.youtube.com/ltrp300