1 2
14 15 16
20 21
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
What am I looking at here?
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/29772816889288477 Missed 1 lag frame, so boss started 1 frame later for me, even though I spawned him 144 frames faster. Fuck you global timer.
Derakon wrote:
What am I looking at here?
This is how far you stand to still be able to hit that grey enemy.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Ahh. That's a heck of a backswing you got there.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Adding laggy hits to freeze the timer also freezes my progression, so I guess level 1 isn't improvable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
This is how RoboManus jumps
Language: asm

loc_0_CF21: $CF21:20 4A CF JSR sub_0_CF4A A:00 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIZC sub_0_CF4A: $CF4A:FE DF 03 INC Obj_various_cnt,X @ $03E3 = #$4F A:00 X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:nvUBdIZC $CF4D:BD 83 05 LDA objects_some_anim,X @ $0587 = #$84 A:00 X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:nvUBdIzC $CF50:49 F0 EOR #$F0 A:84 X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:NvUBdIzC $CF52:4A LSR A:74 X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:nvUBdIzC $CF53:69 10 ADC #$10 A:3A X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:nvUBdIzc $CF55:DD DF 03 CMP Obj_various_cnt,X @ $03E3 = #$50 A:4A X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:nvUBdIzc $CF58:60 RTS (from sub_0_CF4A) ---------------------- A:4A X:04 Y:00 S:F9 P:NvUBdIzc $CF24:B0 1E BCS loc_0_CF44 A:4A X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:NvUBdIzc $CF26:A9 00 LDA #$00 A:4A X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:NvUBdIzc $CF28:9D DF 03 STA Obj_various_cnt,X @ $03E3 = #$50 A:00 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIZc $CF2B:A5 26 LDA RandomValue_2 = #$15 A:00 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIZc $CF2D:29 02 AND #$02 A:15 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIzc $CF2F:09 05 ORA #$05 A:00 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIZc $CF31:9D C0 04 STA Objects_Z_speed,X @ $04C4 = #$FE A:05 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIzc $CF34:A5 27 LDA RandomValue_3 = #$89 A:05 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:nvUBdIzc $CF36:29 80 AND #$80 A:89 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:NvUBdIzc $CF38:9D 56 05 STA Objects_dir,X @ $055A = #$00 A:80 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:NvUBdIzc $CF3B:BD 83 05 LDA objects_some_anim,X @ $0587 = #$84 A:80 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:NvUBdIzc $CF3E:9D 65 05 STA Objects_X_speed,X @ $0569 = #$00 A:84 X:04 Y:00 S:FB P:NvUBdIzc
objects_some_anim increments by $C every time you hit him, and Obj_various_cnt increments until it overcomes the messed up value of objects_some_anim (SHIFT(XOR(a, 0xf0), 1) + 0x10), then a jump happens and Obj_various_cnt resets. The speed and direction are random, but you can't get vertical speed other than 5 or 7. tl;dr: doesn't look manipulatable. EDIT: After RoboManus we're 02:30.37 ahead.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Some multiposting, but this is the area when I'd take any optimization help. Can't seem to spawn the wheel before the explosion fades, even though it spawns earlier in the current run. Also, water jumping might benefit from some fresh thinking. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/29838321143560871
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Here's some bizarre route that's 40 frames slower than my optimized normal route of this segment (and 20 frames faster than the published run's). LOL. Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3822)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2832
Location: US
Looking good feos, you're almost there now!
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
2k frames in the last level, saving 23 frames so far. Another tiny trick found, again with D the frame you press A for a dash jump: it saves you all the turn around time when you're jumping to a different direction. Funny that this is exactly when U/D didn't help in 3D levels!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/29966876667818796 When I arrived to this disappearing platform, I was 31 frame ahead. It appeared 30 frames too late. So I had to sacrifice some realtime frames to lag reduction, and now I reach this platform later, but it spanws sooner: 9 frames ahead overall. I doubt it can be improved since if I spawn it even earlier, I won't have time to get there so fast, and it's not about adjusting lag frame by frame, you can only get either a full hit (10 frames), or a stick hit (2 frames). Stick bounces the enemies farther, so you have to run longer to hit them again, that's the reason RTA strat doesn't work in a TAS.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
I FUCKING DID IT!!! 1 frame interval prepared from the beginning of the level! 107 frames ahead in last level alone now! This is gonna be a suggested screenshot. Man I can't believe it happened, miracles exist! More yoku platforms to come though...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3822)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2832
Location: US
wow great work feos! I honestly didn't think that level was improvable, good to be proven wrong.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Phil/Genisto were optimizing movements, but they didn't plan out those platforms at all. Probably because it wasn't possible to debug easily back in the days of fceu 12, or maybe they just didn't have that skill and were relying on straightforward tasing. Anyway, it's only the first 3.5k frames, 9k more to follow.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3822)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2832
Location: US
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30145763783146691 So I've had this for a while without looking at it, with the 1-p run on the workbench I figured I'd just post it here for anyone interested. This basically just expands the warps run into a warpless one. Levels 1 and 2 contain decent optimization. Level 3 is just the warps run version. level 4 uses some of what was learned in the warpless run but isn't optimized. Level 5 also uses the level skip similar to level 3. This only syncs up to the robot boss, but from there on it will identical to the warps run anyway. I made no attempt at entertainment since it's just a rough draft. Currently I'm not sure when I might come back to this, but here it is for anyone to use.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
I will have to give other things some care as well.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
The US version the bug only applies to 2-player mode. There is no program revision (PRG1/REV A) whatsoever.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
And?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Editor, Expert player (2098)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1200
PikachuMan wrote:
The US version the bug only applies to 2-player mode. There is no program revision (PRG1/REV A) whatsoever.
I believe you are replying to AnS' comment? Next time use the quote button. Also it's been 4 years since he posted that, I doubt he cares at this point.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3822)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2832
Location: US
So I did some quick testing using the current warps run and the comparable portions of the new warpless 1 player run. Basically from the intruder excluder to game end, 1 player is 750 frames faster. Level 3 in 650 frames faster in 2 player then in 1 player. Level 4 can be done faster 1 player then 2 player do to intense lag. I don't know by how much but my very brief testing was already 10 frames ahead. So maybe up to 1 second faster in an optimized case. So, if level 1 and the snake level can be done fast enough, 1 player warps might be faster then 2 player warps. But I'm not sure if the snake warp can be hit fast enough. It will be very close though. EDIT: currently 50 frames away from being faster EDIT2: currently faster by 60 frames. This gets up intruder excluder but doesn't sync to the end (although it should be identical to warpless after this point.) http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30168575436228154 @feos: are any of the speed improvements you found in 1 player warpless applicable to 2 player warps? I don't think this can be improved too much more, so if you can save 1 second 2 player will still be faster. EDIT3: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30171946756063596 http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30172987039226829 Here is a slightly more optimized file that beats the game. So right now 1 player stands as faster then the published 2 player warps run by ~70 frames. EDIT4: So the entertainment tradeoff feos originally put in his Robo Manus fight in the published run costs about 20 frames. I am at 39931 frames for 2 players right now and 39877 39861 for 1 player. Very close!
XYZ
Former player
Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 168
Location: 2bastuz
Alyosha wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30145763783146691
Nice WIP. But all of these 1PDW (one player's death warps) kill a great cooperative between toads in Turbo Tunnel and Surf City so I was afraid that the Volkmire`s Inferno will suffer the same fate. I think final movie will be 14.00-14.30.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
You can glitch Volkmire in a way, by going OOB upwards and overflowing your deepth, which leads to death, but that takes more time than legit completion :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
XYZ
Former player
Joined: 12/9/2006
Posts: 168
Location: 2bastuz
For me, as a viewer, it's good as long as the planes with toads did the unthinkable pirouettes while bikes in the garage and surfboards on the repair)
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
I don't think those races could be done better than what we saw already, and doing the same once again doesn't make much sense. Now it's time when even human players perform something similar real-time, so one shouldn't expect a tas to not evolve. Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3822)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2832
Location: US
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30188088951958534 This contains all the improvements I know so far, barring something new being found I don't think much will change. For the 2 player run I can't find any new improvements so I might end up submitting this soon. I think a handful of frames can be saved in level 3 with feos' U+R trick, but that still leaves over a second to save somewhere and I can't find any.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Don't submit without my approval. Maybe I'll have some time to check this week. What's the latest difference from the published run in frames?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
1 2
14 15 16
20 21