First of all, about the password glitch usage - it is, as with practically any password glitch, a grey area issue. The behavior in this specific case is that the password sets certain values in memory, but then rejects the password anyway. This means that the run still directly makes use of the password's benefits to save time and make the game easier (by skipping one boss battle and allowing X to obtain the Z-Saber without defeating Vile). This violates the principle that the password rule was made for, using a password's effects to lower difficulty and skip challenges. As such, I'm disallowing usage of this password glitch, for this category and any other speed category of this game.
However, another important reason I'm rejecting this submission is because of poor emulation. PSXjin is a deprecated emulator, and pending non-acceptance, precisely because it emulates PSX games poorly. Its poor emulation manifests itself in this game as well, by not playing any music tracks in-game (outside of FMV scenes) and by freezing the game near the end part of the game ending. Historically a few exceptions have been made for this, but that was because of lack of an alternative. Since then, though, we got BizHawk with PSX support, which doesn't have the aforementioned emulation issues with this game, and therefore should be the emulator of choice for TASing this game. Rejecting due to poor emulation where a better alternative is available.
There is a problem. I can't get any music. I'm trying to use PSXJin v2.0.2 svn0 and load "Rockman X3 (Japan).cue". I also have the files "Rockman X3 (Japan) (Track 01).bin", "Rockman X3 (Japan) (Track 02).bin", ... , "Rockman X3 (Japan) (Track 32).bin" in the same folder.
Is there something special that I have to do to get music? Or is PSXJin unable to play music?
For me, BizHawk 1.11.6 has no problem playing music in Rockman X3 (PSX).
Edit: Apparently MDK and Pepsiman also have this problem.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
paosidufygth wrote:
I couldn't get music when I played this either. I was hoping that there would be a way to get it.
How about you tell us something about the actual run??
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
paosidufygth wrote:
I couldn't get music when I played this either. I was hoping that there would be a way to get it.
Have you tried running the game in BizHawk?
I'm not feeling keen on accepting a run of a game with sound emulation issues when an emulator that doesn't have this issue is available.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6337
Location: The land down under.
Also bringing something up... Does the game hardlock for anyone else on psxjin (after the credits)?
'Cause I hit the point of a black screen and there's no coming out of it.
Encode:Link to video
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
MDK and Pepsiman use CDDA music that doesn't work in PCSX/jin. Is that the case here too?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I'll try to explain a little about what makes the PSX version different.
- There is the glitch that allows you to skip directly to the Doppler stages when you are at the stage select. To do this, press the arrow key towards the empty space on the menu (where the Doppler stage would appear if it was unlocked) and press X on the same frame.
- Wall-jumping is a few frames faster than in the SNES version. This changes a lot of movement strategy. This also appears to enable the glitch where Zero frees X immediately at the same time as killing Mac, though I haven't tested whether it can be done on the SNES version.
- Jumping after walking gives a height boost no matter if the floor is sloped or not. This can be seen on the first wall of the intro stage that X must normally wall-jump off.
- The Beam Saber is a bit more glitched in this game where X/Zero can turn to face left and the Beam Saber will still be out to the right.
- Left+right wall-jump glitch like in the SNES version is not possible in the PSX version.
paosidufygth also uses the invalid password glitch (which also works on the SNES version). Laseki and I knew about this glitch for a while but it appears to have been discovered independently by GlitchMan and also independently by paosidufygth as well. Inputting a password that enables the intro stage but gives you any item or defeats/kills anybody, or a password that enables the Beam Saber but leaves any of the 8 main bosses or Zero alive, but is otherwise valid (PSX adds a restriction that the chip upgrades be consistent with a valid playthrough; SNES doesn't), will make a password error but update the status of Vile, Bit, and Byte anyway. Using this, it is possible to set Vile's status to dead (to get Beam Saber in Doppler 2) and skip Bit and Byte's fights as well as skip both Doppler 1 end bosses (as in, you enter the bottom room and warp out without fighting).
Both the skip to the Doppler stages and the invalid password glitch account for the ridiculously low time.
Spikestuff wrote:
Does the game hardlock for anyone else on psxjin (after the credits)?
MDK and Pepsiman use CDDA music that doesn't work in PCSX/jin. Is that the case here too?
if i remember that's the case there too, MMX 3 use CDDA music
Edit : that's the legendary glitch i heard so much about but never managed to get it on real hardware, i even saw it writen in a magazine paper at the time, never got it working.
great job, yes vote
I recall some other disk based Megaman game hardlocked too. 8 maybe?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
i voted yes,even though i disliked the lack of music and the usage of the password glitch to skip content you didn't complete,but i understand it was made to keep the run shorter and it might look more appealing/entertaining to our viewers.I was expecting bit byte and vile fights with no saber at all,as it is expected of going straight to the final stages.
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
How exactly does the password glitch work? How many things can allowed from it? Any limits? There was a glitched password TAS of a different game that skips directly to the credits (usually does not do that), but that got rejected for being unvaultable.
paosidufygth also uses the invalid password glitch (which also works on the SNES version). Laseki and I knew about this glitch for a while but it appears to have been discovered independently by GlitchMan and also independently by paosidufygth as well. Inputting a password that enables the intro stage but gives you any item or defeats/kills anybody, or a password that enables the Beam Saber but leaves any of the 8 main bosses or Zero alive, but is otherwise valid (PSX adds a restriction that the chip upgrades be consistent with a valid playthrough; SNES doesn't), will make a password error but update the status of Vile, Bit, and Byte anyway. Using this, it is possible to set Vile's status to dead (to get Beam Saber in Doppler 2) and skip Bit and Byte's fights as well as skip both Doppler 1 end bosses (as in, you enter the bottom room and warp out without fighting).
HHS brings up a good point about the differences between this password glitch and the one in the published X1 run.
HHS wrote:
I don't really like the use of this password. It's basically the opposite of the situation with the Mega Man X password. In Mega Man X, the password is rejected due to a parity error but the game starts anyway without applying the password. Here we have a password that sets Bit, Byte and Vile as defeated, it is rejected because this requires the intro stage to be cleared, but they forgot to reset the state of Bit, Byte and Vile. Therefore I would regard this as using a password.
Regarding the run itself, I have a few questions:
1. I'm assuming the delay before Mosquitus' door was so you could enter with a green charge and waste the first shot during the door transition. Was this faster than entering immediately, shooting Mosquitus with the first shot, and shooting the second off screen while waiting for his i-frames?
2. You also delay a number of frames before the Hornet refight, which I'm assuming was for manipulation, but iirc the stinger>figure 8 pattern is extremely common. Was this something that couldn't be accomplished with an appropriately timed tier-2 charged shot before entering the capsule or the preceding door?
3. Was it impossible to avoid all of Dr. Doppler's attacks if you let him start with the energy ball move because of the limited movement from the saber slash? If not, waiting for that pattern allows you to attack him much earlier than forcefully triggering his regeneration shield.
In my opinion, password-anchored movies should require verification movies and count as a newgame+ the same way that save-anchored movies do. There's no real fundamental difference.
In particular, the use of a corrupt password is not really different from using a corrupted save file that was placed directly on the cartridge with a save file editor.
How exactly does the password glitch work? How many things can allowed from it? Any limits? There was a glitched password TAS of a different game that skips directly to the credits (usually does not do that), but that got rejected for being unvaultable.
I'll try to remember what I learned from disassembling the password routine from the SNES version.
After entering the password, the game decodes it and checks for its validity. There are five parity checks (hearts, subtanks/upgrades, chips/ridearmors, bosses alive, and Vile/Bit/Byte/Zero/intro status). If the password fails one of them, there is an error and the glitch does not work.
In the PSX version, there is also a chip upgrade consistency check somewhere in the routine (I don't know exactly where). The check is not in the SNES version. To pass the check, you must have 0, 1 or 4 chip upgrades and all chip upgrades require the corresponding normal upgrade. Otherwise, there is an error and the glitch does not work. Note: Entering 4 chip upgrades is valid but the game will remove them from your possession.
If the password passes all checks so far, then the game starts writing all the data determined by the password, including Vile/Bit/Byte status.
Then the game does two additional checks. One is to check that, if the intro stage is enabled, then no items are obtained and everyone is alive and not previously beaten. The other check is that, if the Beam Saber is enabled, then all bosses and Zero are dead.
If the password fails either of these checks, there will be an error. The game will then attempt to erase all the data it put in, but then fail to erase a couple addresses, including Vile/Bit/Byte status.
You can then exit the password screen. The game then erases the data again just to be sure, but it still fails to erase the Vile/Bit/Byte status.
At this point, starting a new game allows you to keep this Vile/Bit/Byte status.
The statuses work as follows. Each of Vile, Bit and Byte have two associated flags: either defeated or not defeated, and either dead or alive. In normal gameplay, dead implies defeated, but the password can circumvent this. How this plays out in the game is:
- Vile's stage may be entered only if Vile is neither defeated nor dead.
- You meet Bit only if he is neither defeated nor dead.
- You meet Byte only if he is neither defeated nor dead.
- In Doppler 1 you go to the Press Disposer room only if Bit and Byte are both defeated and dead. Otherwise you go to the Godkarmachine room.
- In the Godkarmachine room, Bit appears only if he is alive. Byte appears only if he is alive or he is not defeated. If Bit is dead and Byte is defeated and dead, then no battle takes place and you finish the level immediately (this is not supposed to happen in normal gameplay).
- In Doppler 2, the stage makes the Beam Saber available only if Vile is dead.
The idea of this TAS then is to set Vile to be dead, Bit to be dead but not defeated, and Byte to be defeated and dead. This allows you to skip fighting any boss in Doppler 1 and get the Beam Saber in Doppler 2.
Note that this TAS does not use valid passwords or savegames. It only enters an invalid password as a glitch, then starts a new game. Admittedly it is a cheap move, but without it the PSX any% version would be longer and all fights would be X-Buster only.
The thing is boss doors won't open until the screen is centered and I was able to dash ahead of them to save 3 frames (not counting the frames needed to wait for the screen to center). Also putting up the shield in Dr. Doppler was faster.
How exactly does the password glitch work? How many things can allowed from it? Any limits? There was a glitched password TAS of a different game that skips directly to the credits (usually does not do that), but that got rejected for being unvaultable.
<password>
I have no idea all of this, and I guess that in a way technically counts as not using a password. I think? Although it would be nice if this was on the submission text (even if it's not in english) since it's not trivial.
Joined: 7/12/2009
Posts: 181
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Reseting the game during a save and then abusing an error in the save file loading routines is acceptable, but entering an invalid password and abusing an error in the password validation routines is not?
This seems much more reasonable than [2059] SNES Mega Man X "password glitch" by FractalFusion in 16:56.88.
Reseting the game during a save and then abusing an error in the save file loading routines is acceptable, but entering an invalid password and abusing an error in the password validation routines is not?
This seems much more reasonable than [2059] SNES Mega Man X "password glitch" by FractalFusion in 16:56.88.
To be fair, I only questioned it because absolutely nothing was said in the submission text. Pretty positive chances are, at least one of the poster's here is like that too.
Reseting the game during a save and then abusing an error in the save file loading routines is acceptable, but entering an invalid password and abusing an error in the password validation routines is not?
The problem is that a part of the game's progress is still initialized with the password's data. In fact, with the validation removed, this password encodes the very same gameplay state that this run begins from. In the X1 run, this is not the case - the variables remain unaltered from the demo mode.
