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Coming from this thread, there's a discussion to think about how to refer to files with TAS work, which the site currently refers to as movie files.
I've seen some trends developing in that thread about what to go for, but just for the sake of convenience I decided to put a poll here so we may get a clearer answer about what to go for. If there's enough of an agreement with what to call them, I do agree with changing how we refer to them on site pages. Could be a sizeable amount of work, since the term is referenced on a lot of site articles, and we also have to consider if and how we're going to change the wording on e.g. publication modules. (For instance, how the publication module currently refers to the submitted file as "[Emulator] Movie", and how we might want to change that too).
But let's first see what kind of results we'll get in this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
I'll vote for Input, but I also think Replay works as well.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi.
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I really couldn't care less.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
FWIW, regardless of how we call the actual input/replay/whatever files, we can still refer to our publications as movies (which is arguably a more suitable context for the word, considering how the publications are presented).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I originally suggested "keypress file", but I got convinced by the posts of several people that "input file" is fine, so I voted for that.
moozooh wrote:
FWIW, regardless of how we call the actual input/replay/whatever files, we can still refer to our publications as movies (which is arguably a more suitable context for the word, considering how the publications are presented).
Hmm... Please define "publication". I'm not entirely sure what exactly it is, in this context.
FWIW, regardless of how we call the actual input/replay/whatever files, we can still refer to our publications as movies (which is arguably a more suitable context for the word, considering how the publications are presented).
if you're talking about the video file of the run, i agree with you )
did stick to my gun with "playback file" there but input is fine too
Video file of the run? Do you mean the visual representation of gameplay resulting from applying the <to> to the game, starting at power-on and terminating when input is no longer supplied?
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Exactly my thoughts. Why change something if it's the current term? You can't please everyone, nor make it easy for everyone. Sometimes, You have to learn the jargon.
Why change something if everyone in the community use the term currently? Changing it will only introduce much more confusion, inside and outside the community. I think the discussion has went too far.
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Niamek wrote:
Samsara wrote:
I really couldn't care less.
Exactly my thoughts. Why change something if it's the current term? You can't please everyone, nor make it easy for everyone. Sometimes, You have to learn the jargon.
Why change something if everyone in the community use the term currently? Changing it will only introduce much more confusion, inside and outside the community. I think the discussion has went too far.
Beautifully said! Let them learn! We always or most certainly often bend down to outside communities for their lack of comprehension of what this and that is. Silverspoon? As the high priestess Rihanna recently said: WORK WORK WORK!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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This thread and the other, are both stupid.
This is a Movie File It starts with all the information required, it also holds the subtitles and then follows it up with the actual input.:
This is also a Movie File which contains the contents of the notes, the game information, bios, author, re-record count, Subtitles and how it has been set up in order for it to sync (which is primarily important for n64 TASes) as well as the input:
How do you call something with great information stored inside it with more things than what would just be "input" and call it something that doesn't even scratch the surface of what is inside it?
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
@Spikestuff: an encode on YouTube also contains the notes, game information, author, rerecord count, and subtitles, in addition to allowing players to watch the movie. (So it doesn't contain all the things you mentioned, but it does contain most.)
I can understand bundling other things with the input for convenience. However, when I work on the TAS, I'm working with a literal input file; it contains the input, and nothing else. (It doesn't even contain a savestate; the savestate contains the input file in nethack-tas-tools rather than the other way round.)
Joined: 11/13/2006
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The thing is, we don't need a site-wide term. We don't need a standard, and even if we set a standard it's just going to be the exact same way as before. Some people are going to say "Movie File" and all of us are going to know what it means, some will say "Input File" and all of us will know what it means, maybe one person will say "Replay File" but still all of us will know what it means.
This is a poll dedicated to what is essentially a cosmetic choice that's going to affect precisely no one. Nearly every major re-recording emulator creates a "Movies" folder, which is where newly-created TASes go, so anyone who ever decides to pick up TASing will immediately know what "Movie File" would refer to. We've reached a point where a majority of people on the site don't even bother with the files anyway unless they're actually creating them or helping with them, and as I said they all know what "Movie File" refers to.
There's no need to deprecate or change a term that takes less than a minute to understand. So, basically, this discussion has been pointless from the very beginning.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I call it Steve. No seriously, it doesn't matter what we call it. We've been calling it movie file since the beginning so might as well stick with that. And if you change the name, it won't stop me from calling it a movie file in the future.
Why change something if it's the current term? You can't please everyone, nor make it easy for everyone.
Yeah, why bother with improvements? Let's just let things be like they have been, and never improve anything.
Why does it bother you if something is improved? If a change in a term will cause less misunderstandings, what harm does it do to you?
Samsara wrote:
There's no need to deprecate or change a term that takes less than a minute to understand.
I don't think you understand. The suggested change is not for the benefit of regular visitors, or the people who come here to stay and learn. The suggested change is for the benefit of the wider casual audience who are not aficionados, but may watch speedruns and marathons from time to time, and who may encounter these terms. In this case, a misunderstanding in the meaning of a term can cause indirect harm, if these people get the wrong impression of what's going on, and start spreading false rumors.
I don't really like this elitist attitude of "these are the terms, learn them or gtfo". (Ok, nobody has said exactly that, but it's the impression I'm getting from some people.) We should strive to reach the wider public, not to enclose ourselves in a semi-closed elite group where only people inside understand what the terminology and jargon means.
MUGG wrote:
And if you change the name, it won't stop me from calling it a movie file in the future.
If the term is deemed misleading and confusing, why would you deliberately want to use it? I don't understand.
This is not the first time a confusing term has been completely deprecated and erased from the site. Long time ago some people kept stubborningly using the term "timeattack" instead of "tool-assisted speedrun". It was phased out because it's extremely non-descript and misleading, and like "movie file", could be confused with something else.
Hmm... Please define "publication". I'm not entirely sure what exactly it is, in this context.
xxxxM.html and the videos located therein. After all they're presented a lot like actual movies, with video files, "box art", list of authors, description, subtitles, sometimes even a commentary, and whatnot. An input file is an input file, however. Right now the term "movie" refers both to the input file and the publication, which is supremely confusing because they're completely different things.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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I wonder how it would sound if the site label changes.
FCEUX movie - sounds fine.
FCEUX input - doesn't work without the word "file". Do we really want to sentence ourselves to using a bigger construct, that isn't perfectly accurate either?
FCEUX replay - well, it replays input, producing gameplay replay, it replays subtitles, and it includes whatever it needs to make that replay guaranteed, as sync settings, and then probably other overhead that's not required but is nice to have.
Despite of more people liking "input", it's inaccurate and complicated, overall just as badly as the word "movie". "Replay", conversely, solves most of the problems in my eyes.
moozooh wrote:
FWIW, regardless of how we call the actual input/replay/whatever files, we can still refer to our publications as movies (which is arguably a more suitable context for the word, considering how the publications are presented).
Agreed.
ais523 wrote:
@Spikestuff: an encode on YouTube also contains the notes, game information, author, rerecord count, and subtitles, in addition to allowing players to watch the movie. (So it doesn't contain all the things you mentioned, but it does contain most.)
It's a video encode, so it's arguably still a movie, unlike the emulator file.
@moozooh: you forgot the torrents :) But yeah, all in all it is called a publication module, so whatever it contains is a part of it. But the link still relies on the word "movie", and I don't think it should change.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Replay is alright imo. Many games with built-in input recording refer to the resulting files as replay files (Touhou Project engine games' .rpy files, for instance). The reason why I like it less is that it feels less specific to emulators and shares more context with videos and the act of playing the game again (that is, replaying it). It would likely be my second choice.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
FCEUX input - doesn't work without the word "file". Do we really want to sentence ourselves to using a bigger construct, that isn't perfectly accurate either?
FCEUX replay - well, it replays input, producing gameplay replay, it replays subtitles, and it includes whatever it needs to make that replay guaranteed, as sync settings, and then probably other overhead that's not required but is nice to have.
What is wrong with "FCEUX input file"?
I suppose "replay" is better than "movie", but I wonder if there's anything better still. ("Replay" immediately made me think of an "instant replay" of TV broadcasts, which is a video recording of the live event being repeated. Emphasis on "video recording". But yeah, I'm not sure this would cause as much confusion. Maybe not. Just wondering if there would be something even less ambiguous.)
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Warp wrote:
What is wrong with "FCEUX input file"?
I dunno, it's an excessive addition when all the rest on the publication page are also files, but we don't add "file" to each of them (since it's silly). They are all files -> input file doesn't need that addition, but without it it's just odd, let alone inaccurate and ambiguous.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I don't think that "movie" is at all inaccurate: movie files need two pieces of software to be played back, a media player and a codec; if you don't have one of them, you can't play the movie. For TAS movies, the emulator is the media player, and the ROM is the codec; if you don't have one of them, you can't play the movie.
Just as with other movie files, the exact movie format defines the kind of metadata that is contained in the file: GMVs don't support subtitles, for example.
That said, I will agree that it is useful to distinguish between "emulator and ROM" movies from "media players and codec" movies. I don't really like any of the suggested terms, and I don't have a better option.
I don't think that "movie" is at all inaccurate: movie files need two pieces of software to be played back, a media player and a codec; if you don't have one of them, you can't play the movie. For TAS movies, the emulator is the media player, and the ROM is the codec; if you don't have one of them, you can't play the movie.
And embedded savestates would be keyframes.
marzojr wrote:
Just as with other movie files, the exact movie format defines the kind of metadata that is contained in the file: GMVs don't support subtitles, for example.
That said, I will agree that it is useful to distinguish between "emulator and ROM" movies from "media players and codec" movies. I don't really like any of the suggested terms, and I don't have a better option.
This is also a Movie File which contains the contents of the notes, the game information, bios, author, re-record count, Subtitles and how it has been set up in order for it to sync (which is primarily important for n64 TASes) as well as the input:
How do you call something with great information stored inside it with more things than what would just be "input" and call it something that doesn't even scratch the surface of what is inside it?
