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This run is about 2 minutes and 20 seconds faster than http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25546884

Data transferring glitch

http://pileofsecrets.wikidot.com/portrait-of-ruin#toc28
This glitch is used to transfer Konami Man, Vic Viper, Twin Bee, and 32 HP/MP Max Ups into Sisters mode from Johnathan mode. With this glitch, I start with higher attack than I would ever have in a run without this glitch.

Boss battles

There are two worth mentioning boss fights that involve special tricks, and they are the main technical improvement over the run on Nicovideo.
As you can see around 6:55, I started attacking Legion before the camera moves back to the sisters. This only works when you are using Stella.
Something similar happens around 19:30. If you are using Loretta while entering the boss room, you have a window of a few frames to press buttons. As you can see, I switched to Stella and touch the screen where Mummy Man would appear. The magical line just stays there and kills Mummy Man before he even appears thanks to data transferring glitch.
I don't fully understand why these phenomenons happen. They probably have to do with the fact that HUD doesn't disappear when you enter the boss rooms of Legion and Mummy Man.

Luck Manipulation

Luck manipulation is done by hitting candles. I did this in some places to make certain enemies move out of my way so I don't have to kill them in order to avoid unnecessary level ups.
Dullahan and Creature require some manipulation as well. For Dullahan, I need to make sure he does not start with the jumping attack because that one produces tons of lags. As you can see around 17:35, I deleted MP in order to go downward faster. Because MP is really low at the beginning of the fight, I can't just fly over Creature while attacking him. I have to make sure he doesn't use machine gun while I'm on the ground to regenerate MP.

Corner Boost

While moving upward, going over the up-left or up-right corner of a platform can push you upward a little. Doing this saves around 3 frames each time. This is a minor technical improvement over the run on Nicovideo.

Horizontal Damage Boost

Getting hit by an enemy or obstacle while going left or right can save around 5 frames each time. This type of damage boost is used as often as possible, but I have to make sure enough HP is conserved for the next type of damage boost.

Vertical Damage Boost

Getting hit by an enemy or obstacle while MP is depleted makes you go downward at much faster speed. However, most of this type of damage boosts are done by touch platforming obstacles, which deals a lot of damage. Moreover, if there is a platform right below the obstacle, you are likely to get stuck on the platform and become immobile for some time. Therefore, vertical damage boost are usually used only when the obstacle is blocking the way.

Special thanks

Gocha - for the lua script(https://github.com/gocha/gocha-tas/blob/master/Tools/DS/Lua/Castlevania%20-%20Portrait%20of%20Ruin%20-%20HUD.lua) that makes the making of this run much easier and for improving DeSmuME so that TASing DS games is possible at the first place
Samsara: Well then.
Samsara: Since this is an NG+ run, it is not eligible for Vault, and since it has received poor feedback, it can't be accepted to Moons. A run without the data transfer glitch might go slightly better, but I think the general consensus is that Sisters Mode is really not a fun watch by any stretch of the imagination. Rejecting.
ViGadeomes: Rejudge looking the SRAM acceptance of Standard !

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Posted: 10/1/2016 2:51 AM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5239: Fortranm's DS Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin "Sisters Mode" in 24:42.75
Posted: 10/1/2016 4:17 AM
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Fortranm
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Link to video Here is an encode.
Posted: 10/1/2016 4:55 AM
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Invariel
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I have to vote "no" here. Watching Stella and Loretta glide effortlessly over the entire game wasn't interesting, and watching the player fire useless shots into the air for no reason made me think this was more of a playaround than an actual speed attempt. While the bosses are killed as quickly as possible, and the path seems to be optimal, I just didn't find this run as entertaining as the landbound characters. Sorry, Fortranm.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Posted: 10/1/2016 6:33 AM
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Noxxa
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Looks like you're still using the NG+ carryover glitch. That's still a major turn-off, it makes it look like Sisters are cheesing through the game way too easily (and making MP management a lot easier, it looks like). It also disqualifies it from the Vault, as that doesn't allow NG+ categories (glitched or otherwise).
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 10/1/2016 7:22 AM
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Fortranm
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Invariel wrote:
I have to vote "no" here. Watching Stella and Loretta glide effortlessly over the entire game wasn't interesting, and watching the player fire useless shots into the air for no reason made me think this was more of a playaround than an actual speed attempt.
The purpose of firing useless shots into air is to empty MP so the characters move downward faster.
Mothrayas wrote:
Looks like you're still using the NG+ carryover glitch. That's still a major turn-off, it makes it look like Sisters are cheesing through the game way too easily (and making MP management a lot easier, it looks like). It also disqualifies it from the Vault, as that doesn't allow NG+ categories (glitched or otherwise).
I thought any runs that require SRAM would not be qualified for vault since they are not strict any% or 100% runs. That glitch affects MP management differently under different circumstances. Extra MP makes it slower to empty MP in order to perform downward speed-boost trick. I would say the biggest benefits of this glitch are higher attack power and more HP for damage boost. Extra MP does not make that much of a difference.
Posted: 10/1/2016 7:34 AM
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arandomgameTASer
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Fortranm wrote:
Extra MP makes it slower to empty MP in order to perform downward speed-boost trick.
Fortranm wrote:
Extra MP does not make that much of a difference.
I know we're sounding really nitpicky, and I apologize for that. But categories can't just be an amalgam of weird rules that make it strange to watch. It'd be like doing a super metroid run that was 100% map completion, but also reverse boss order AND game end glitch. The category subsets don't really lend themselves to each other, so it feels messy. Same concept here. For an example of one of YOUR runs, "Trevor, Sunken City Path" works perfectly because it does two things no other published run does: *Only uses Trevor and never gets a companion *Takes a path that is skipped in every other run This creates a run that is unique in its own way to JUSTIFY the category choice. Please tell me, does New Game + Sisters Mode have enough routing changes to justify its existence as separate from Sisters Mode? Or are the differences so minor that they barely matter?
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Posted: 10/1/2016 7:42 AM
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Fortranm
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Fortranm wrote:
Extra MP makes it slower to empty MP in order to perform downward speed-boost trick.
When I said this, I was talking about the effect on management. It does not actually make the run slower. Apparently there hasn't been any Sisters mode runs published here. I don't see the need to make a new game +category for this mode so I just went with the fastest way to beat the game in this run.
Posted: 10/1/2016 7:56 AM
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Samsara
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Fortranm wrote:
I don't see the need to make a new game +category for this mode so I just went with the fastest way to beat the game in this run.
But you did technically make a New Game + run with the data transfer glitch. It's not an official one supported by the game, but it's still using previously attained upgrades and items. If you really don't see the need to make an NG+ category, then don't use that glitch.
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Posted: 10/1/2016 8:29 AM
Post subject: Re: #5239: Fortranm's DS Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin "Sisters Mode" in 24:42.75
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Invariel
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TASVideoAgent wrote:
This run is about 2 minutes and 20 seconds faster than <a>http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25546884</a>
This line seems a lot disingenuous, given that you are using New Game+ through a glitch, and not playing through normal mode on a raw file like that run does.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Posted: 10/1/2016 8:30 AM
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Fortranm
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Samsara wrote:
Fortranm wrote:
I don't see the need to make a new game +category for this mode so I just went with the fastest way to beat the game in this run.
But you did technically make a New Game + run with the data transfer glitch. It's not an official one supported by the game, but it's still using previously attained upgrades and items. If you really don't see the need to make an NG+ category, then don't use that glitch.
Can't the two categories be merged? The sequence and the general play style of the run are not affected by this data transfer glitch, the glitch makes the run faster, and you have to start from SRAM no matter what.
Invariel wrote:
TASVideoAgent wrote:
This run is about 2 minutes and 20 seconds faster than <a>http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25546884</a>
This line seems a lot disingenuous, given that you are using New Game+ through a glitch, and not playing through normal mode on a raw file like that run does.
Maybe, but I started attacking Legion and Mummy Man earlier and used corner boost while going up as often as I can. This run is technically more optimized than the run on Nicovideo for sure.
Posted: 10/1/2016 8:38 AM
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Invariel
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Fortranm wrote:
Invariel wrote:
TASVideoAgent wrote:
This run is about 2 minutes and 20 seconds faster than <a>http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25546884</a>
This line seems a lot disingenuous, given that you are using New Game+ through a glitch, and not playing through normal mode on a raw file like that run does.
Maybe, but I started attacking Legion and Mummy Man earlier and used corner boost while going up as often as I can. This run is technically more optimized than the run on Nicovideo for sure.
Quite honestly, and without a trace of sarcasm, I look forward to reading the detailed submission notes where you talk about these types of movement improvements, and not the comparisons due to damage.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Posted: 10/1/2016 8:44 AM
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Samsara
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Fortranm wrote:
Can't the two categories be merged? The sequence and the general play style of the run are not affected by this data transfer glitch, the glitch makes the run faster, and you have to start from SRAM no matter what.
No. The glitch makes the run trivial. It removes tons of routing and management from the run, not to mention potential entertainment from actually needing a strategy to take down bosses rather than just destroying them in a couple seconds with stats you shouldn't have in the first place.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 10/1/2016 8:59 AM
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Fortranm
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Samsara wrote:
It removes tons of routing and management from the run, not to mention potential entertainment from actually needing a strategy to take down bosses rather than just destroying them in a couple seconds with stats you shouldn't have in the first place.
IMHO, I don't think the run on Nicovideo uses much different strategies. The majority of my route is taken from that run, and it does seem to be the most optimal route with or without this glitch. If this glitch is not used, the biggest difference in boss battles is that you stand on the ground and occasionally doges attacks by moving a little for a longer time. There is no essential change in strategies. The glitch only makes it faster.
Posted: 10/1/2016 9:10 AM
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Samsara
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Yeah, and that's basically the entire point of an NG+ run. It's going to use mostly the same strategies, just a lot faster and without any of the risks and challenges involved. The entire point is that it's a poor decision that offers no return other than "It's faster!" In this case, faster doesn't matter when no one likes the run. The fact that you used that glitch, as Mothrayas said, puts the run in a distinctly different category, one that's required to be entertaining to make it onto the site in the first place... and the glitch removes anything that someone could find entertaining, things such as carefully managing HP and damage boosts and just barely dodging things when you're one hit away from death.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 10/1/2016 11:23 AM
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Mothrayas wrote:
Looks like you're still using the NG+ carryover glitch. That's still a major turn-off, it makes it look like Sisters are cheesing through the game way too easily (and making MP management a lot easier, it looks like). It also disqualifies it from the Vault, as that doesn't allow NG+ categories (glitched or otherwise).
hi, the new game + glitch wasn't mentioned in the submition name, can we withdraw my yes vote ? i was about to vote yes as it's a new category ( different characters) but since it use a new game + glitch, it's not a true any% so i'll abstain to vote this time but since it have different gameplay mechanics than the other modes ( julius / soma) it should deserves at least a vault submition. if the run is remade without the glitch and is still "flowing" correctly, i'd still vote yes. PS: can you also update the submission title to add the ng+ glitch ? thanks
Posted: 10/1/2016 5:34 PM
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Invariel
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Even in light of the submission comments being updated, I wish to maintain my "no" vote as a "no" vote. An optimized run of plain Sisters mode, even in Normal, would likely be entertaining for all of the reasons Samsara mentioned, but this "best of both worlds" (crazy damage bonus, none of the challenge) fusion does not entertain me.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Posted: 10/1/2016 5:57 PM
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Fortranm
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Samsara wrote:
Yeah, and that's basically the entire point of an NG+ run. It's going to use mostly the same strategies, just a lot faster and without any of the risks and challenges involved. The entire point is that it's a poor decision that offers no return other than "It's faster!" In this case, faster doesn't matter when no one likes the run. The fact that you used that glitch, as Mothrayas said, puts the run in a distinctly different category, one that's required to be entertaining to make it onto the site in the first place... and the glitch removes anything that someone could find entertaining, things such as carefully managing HP and damage boosts and just barely dodging things when you're one hit away from death.
I agree what you say about site rules and category choice, but I still don't see how this glitch removes anything entertaining. As you can see easily from the encode, I am one hit away from death for around 13 minutes, which is more than half of the run. As mentioned in my finished submission text, damages boost is used extensively. Extra HP only makes it happen more often, and this doesn't mean HP is not carefully managed. If this run looks boring to you, a run without data transfer glitch probably won't look any better. I didn't know a run without this glitch is eligible for Vault though; I thought only strict any% and 100% runs of a game can be in Vault.
Posted: 10/1/2016 6:12 PM
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Derakon
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Haven't watched the video, though I watched portions of the previous submission. Frankly, Sisters mode is just boring. It's boring to play, it's boring to watch. I don't like the use of the stats-transfer glitch, but I don't think a pure run would be interesting either. Movement is too slow and too simplistic, and the available techs for speeding things up (damage/corner boosting, carefully managing MP) aren't all that interesting either.
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Posted: 10/5/2016 12:09 PM
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