Btw,we don't need link for catching all pokes in GSC with the glitches available,do we?
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Not fully sure what you're asking, but yes, it is possible to complete the Pokedex in any one Gen II game without ACE. A movie that did that would likely be quite boring, though it might arguably be vaultable as a 100% category.
Not fully sure what you're asking, but yes, it is possible to complete the Pokedex in any one Gen II game without ACE. A movie that did that would likely be quite boring, though it might arguably be vaultable as a 100% category.
3 generations in a row where 100% is possible without ACE nor trading. Someone go break G4 please. lol
i'm just saying the 100% run should be linkless,because we can do it,even if it's a complete pain to route(like the old 100% used to be for RBY)
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Is there any way to have a straight forward TAS without any major skips in any pre-generation 3 games? Hell, I'm certain that within a year or so someone will discover a major skip that DOESN'T corrupts memory in GSC, and create like 3 branches+ for this generation as well.
A "no memory corruption" category would generally provide a straightforward TAS. As far as I know there aren't any super major skips in either Gen I or II that don't rely on memory corruption, with the biggest one being the Poke Doll skip over all of the Celadon Rocket Hideout.
are there tricks enough to do a legit complete pokedéx with one game only?One of the tricks used to get coin case ACE doesn't register the pokémon but i remember the bad egg corruption did make it possible(beat up sneasels trick) so i can only imagine these being possible with gold or silver.What are the limitations?
(i'm asking both for a speedrun or playthrough,i remember beatin blue using ditto tricks and trainer fly for pokémon who were unacessible)
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Inspired by the latest RB TAS, I tried to work out how you would get a legit GSC complete Pokedex (minus Mew and Celebi).
The exclusives that I found you need the 1st generation games would be: Bulbasaur line, Squirtle line, Charmander line, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Omanyte line, Kabuto line, Porygon, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mewtwo. Hitmontop and Tyrogue need to be bred from the Hitmons too.
So, in theory, you could add a single 1st gen game to Gold and Silver, but it would require you to reset 3 times, at least for the starters, three of the Eevees needed (probably faster than breeding since they take a long time to hatch), the Hitmons, and the fossils. I think this would differentiate it from the R/B TAS, given that you're not essentially duplicating the effor there in addition to supporting the completion of the G/S dex.
Some breeding is needed anyway since the baby level Pokemon exist, and evolution stones and held items like Metal Coat are extremely limited too, so planning would be a difficult task, but I'm sure it would be possible.
Just like the R/B TAS, the end point would be getting the certificate after getting all 249 Pokemon in both Gold and Silver.
So, my basic thinking might be this in planning:
Red or Blue version:
1st: Trade starter early on to Silver
2nd: 2nd starter, rush as fast as possible to Cinnabar Island with one fossil, grab one Hitmon, one Eevee
3rd: 3rd starter, play through to beat E4, obtain Mewtwo, second Eevee, other Hitmon, other fossil (+Aerodactyl)
Gold will be used to obtain the extra starter, means Silver can do some more time consuming tasks like levelling Larvitar.
Of course, this is all from a basic overview of what is possible, I'm not considering any problems from syncing the versions for trade or planning for which Pokemon to get in each version. A more detailed plan might thrash out a lot of what each specific version needs to do in each cycle, but some of that may be up to the RNG. Still, it is something I'd like to see, and I'm sure I am not the only one.
I think the best version combination would be Yellow, Gold/Silver, and Crystal.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Game-exclusive_Pok%C3%A9mon
As shown in these charts, all Pokemon that are not in Yellow are in all Gen 2 games, while Vulpix(in case you choose GC) and Mankey(in case you choose SC) can be found in Yellow.
A key difference in Crystal is that Sneasel is found at the Ice Path instead of at Mt. Silver, and Larvitar can be purchased at Celadon Game Corner with 8888C. This Larvitar is at Lv40, which is much higher than the level of any wild Larvitar you can find at Mt.Silver.
However, Misdreavus is only available at Mt. Silver in all Gen 2 games, thus it is the bottleneck of the run, just like Mewtwo in MrWint's R/B 150 TAS. The best plan is probably to have either G or S rushing to Mt. Silver by getting all Kanto Badges and C collecting legendaries(since you have to revive three beasts any way) and getting coins in Celadon Game Corner for Larvitar. It might be a good idea to use the Yellow rom from 3DS VC so you can play the surfing minigame in case there is much free time.
Gold and Crystal can each get their own Tyrogue, so Yellow part 1 doesn't even need to worry about the Hitmon: it can just be a race to get Surf and head to Cinnabar as fast as possible, ignoring everything else that isn't a direct prerequisite.
Granted, that's most of the game, and part 2 would have to play even more of the game because Yellow is going to have to visit all of Seafoam Islands, Power Plant, Victory Road, and Cerulean Cave, but compared to the bigger games it shouldn't have a problem finishing on time. Yellow will probably even be responsible for Porygon.
Perhaps an indicator of the time scale involved is that you absolutely need two Sun Stones to fill out the Pokedex. One of Gold or Crystal, then, should start in the middle of a bug-catching contest day (probably Saturday 10:00 AM, which takes the fewest button pushes), and focus on getting daytime catches (including Espeon). The other should start around 11:30 PM on Thursday, as late as it can get away with while still catching the window for the bug-catching contest, and then proceed to fill out the nighttime catches (with Umbreon) and Lapras once Friday rolls along. If there are any morning-only habitats, those will finally open up after 4½ hours, and given all the catching and trading, the run will probably last long enough to get there naturally.
I wonder how feasible to play 6 games at once like this for 100%? Either having all 100% done on 1 game, or 6 games with 100%.
Also, speaking of which, if you use yellow, would that get 100% there too, or just focus on 1 game? If the latter, might be better to start 6 games for everything. lol
I think it'd probably be best to only use Yellow to get a complete Gold/Silver Pokedex and not use it for overall completion. Elsewise it would just be a repeat of the current Blue/Red 100% run.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
It's not bad to complete the Pokedex for Yellow though since it has much less things to do compared to the Gen 2 games and it's different enough from R/B.
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17766&start=25
Right now Bizhawk can support only two games in DualGameboy mode. Using 6 game might not save too much time since the run is still bottlenecked by the one that's going to Mt. Silver.
Are there any scripts or anything that can make RNG manipulation a little easier to see? Reason I ask is because I'm curious about maybe TASing Gen 2 and hopefully obsolete the current glitchless TAS.
are there tricks enough to do a legit complete pokedéx with one game only?One of the tricks used to get coin case ACE doesn't register the pokémon but i remember the bad egg corruption did make it possible(beat up sneasels trick) so i can only imagine these being possible with gold or silver.What are the limitations?
(i'm asking both for a speedrun or playthrough,i remember beatin blue using ditto tricks and trainer fly for pokémon who were unacessible)
I hadn't realized this had been discussed on tasvideos until randomly poking around the forums today, but yes there are enough tricks to catch all 251 Pokémon (without ACE or Pokédex flag corruption). I did an initial, mistake-ridden RTA run with a preliminary route on Gold version last month that finished in 10:57:28 (Twitch VOD).
The main glitch for acquiring Pokémon is the standard Celebi trick concept (using index values of items/moves and shifting them into the species byte), with an extra step thrown in to turn the Pokémon into an egg (hatching means it gets registered into the Pokédex). Even when glitching for minimum egg cycles (hatch within 256 steps), this trick is slow enough that it appears to be clearly not worth it for most Pokémon, at least as far as RTA is concerned.
The combination of an instant victory glitch (by abusing a Pokémon with species 0xFF) and a map distortion glitch (using TM47 from the key items or balls pocket) allow the player to skip most of the game content. The run I linked only completed 4 gym badges and defeats exactly 1 trainer legitimately after reaching the daycare. Those corruptions follow from a standard bad clone / key item underflow / key items pocket glitch procedure that allows the player to perform the 7 Pokémon trick, obtain any item of their choosing, and perform other assorted glitches.
Off the top of my head, there were two glitches that lacked real-time viability, but could potentially be useful for a TAS: (1) Setting the Pokédex mode ($d67e) to $D8 allows you to trigger some ROM code that writes $46 to a whole bunch of memory locations, and can achieve some massive map corruption; (2) using TM36 from the key items or balls pocket triggers some ROM code that throws a ball outside of battle, and apparently can allow you to catch the previous enemy Pokémon fought, which the player might otherwise not have convenient access to (there appeared to be an extremely low chance to catch something without RNG abuse at the player's disposal).
I am skeptical that a TAS applying current knowledge would be very entertaining, but it also should not be an extraordinarily long run (I imagine it could clock in somewhere around the 150 glitchless co-op TAS time). Besides the two glitches mentioned above, there are a number of additional possibilities with the 7 Pokémon trick by virtue of having precise knowledge and control of Pokémon data. I am guessing a TAS would still minimize use of the Celebi trick, as the setup is rather slow and you have full control over the Pokémon you encounter in the wild.
If someone is interested enough to look into TASing the category, I'd be happy to do whatever I can to help out. Luckytyphlosion and I compiled an abundance of information over on the PSR wiki (link), though a lot of it may not be pertinent for a tool-assisted run.
(2) using TM36 from the key items or balls pocket triggers some ROM code that throws a ball outside of battle, and apparently can allow you to catch the previous enemy Pokémon fought, which the player might otherwise not have convenient access to (there appeared to be an extremely low chance to catch something without RNG abuse at the player's disposal).
Does a Pokemon acquired in this way become bad egg?
Yeah, there is only the concept of eggs, no bad eggs (nor "glitch eggs" as Bulbapedia seems to think). Eggs are coded with a species number of 253 (0xFD); this value normally only exists in party/box metadata, and the Pokémon that comes out of the egg is determined by the species byte in the Pokémon's data struct. The run abuses the 7 Pokémon trick to change a Pokémon's species byte value to 0xFD, and abuses the daycare to reset the metadata and turn something into an egg (it's the same mechanism that is popularly used to turn Sneasel into Celebi).
Using TM36 calls somewhere in ROM code (specifically, $698a in bank 3) that leads into the "throw Pokéball" function, and the catch animation plays out with garbled graphics from the item menu. It should act like a standard catch; I have tried a couple hundred times to catch something but haven't been successful yet. Someone else who was testing this out said they were able to successfully catch a Bulbasaur after fighting a trainer whose final Pokémon was Bulbasaur. At best, this would have limited applicability for a TAS (same goes for the glitch Pokédex mode), but I figured I would mention it for the sake of completion.
^ I'll chime in to give a bit more clarity to what's going on in the above run (which has already been beaten). I have a mostly tenuous grasp on the mechanics, but hopefully the explanation is sound.
Glitch maestro luckytyphlosion was re-visiting an old item of intrigue to him this weekend, and discovered an exploit based on string printing and faulty error checking in mobile code that was introduced in Crystal (the exploit doesn't exist in Gold/Silver). I'll paraphrase his explanation:
Char15 calls some mobile function which lands on a jumptable: https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/51bad5a606d7b2e8f72638a3c688e9792ca60944/misc/mobile_5f.asm#L3732. It has some error checking defined, but it missed the case for 0. The dec a is after the cp $10 so it'll read a garbage jumptable address, which conveniently jumps to 0:cd52
To have Char15 printed, we corrupt the Pokémon nicknames as early as Cherrygrove so there's no terminator, and thus it will read past the allocated memory for the Pokémon nickname on the Pokémon screen. And through magic, we set up a $15 $00 in memory through some item tosses to have the game jump to cd52.
Conveniently, the game eventually reaches a ret nz that will always be there and will always be executed. Even more conveniently, Game Freak pushed the address of the string buffer address onto the stack before executing the jumptable (so it could pop it off when the function is reached). And even more conveniently, the memory right after the memory address where we set the $15 $00 is the TempMon.
Cyndaquil is used as the nickname-corrupted clone, as it is most expedient in exploiting the glitch. By having its move order be Tackle/Smokescreen/Leer and a trainer ID of either 09947 ($26db) or 09979 ($26fb), we end up executing code that looks like:
ld hl, 2b6c
...
ld h, db
This sets hl to db6c (or fb6c), which is just before box names in wram. By having Cyndaquil's experience set to exactly 233 ($e9), the game calls jp hl, and thus we get classic Gen 2 ACE through our mischievously renamed boxes.
The final piece: we "pretend" to toss 21 Antidotes to get 0x15 into wItemQuantityChangeBuffer, select CANCEL to exit the item menu (which puts 0x00 into wItemQuantityBuffer) and then check the clone's stats to trigger the Char15 exploit and execute the game-breaking code we wrote out in box names. (EDIT: The reason this doesn't work in Gold/Silver is because the GS string printing code terminates if it hits a 0x00 character. This changed in Crystal, which prints ?, and thus allows for the game to continue reading past the buffer into the 0x15 0x00 character.)
As a side note that may be of interest to tasvideos, the bright minds over at PSR have worked in recent months to patch libgambatte for RNG accuracy on Gen 1/2 Pokémon games with respect to official consoles. These RNG patches in conjunction with MrWint's JNI libgambatte bridge have allowed us to efficiently find several RNG manipulations that are RTA viable. The TID manipulation used for this run was found through one such bruteforce search; the hunt for a 1/32768 TID would likely not have been too pleasant otherwise.
