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Editor, Experienced player (586)
Joined: 10/22/2016
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WST wrote:
Of course, as Evil_3D is the leader of our team, it’s up to him to decide if we work on that non in-game optimization or not, but my position is that if we could do it, why not…
I see that a little trivial in a Ring-Attack but don't worry, I don't have problem with that if you think it's the best do it. maybe in some days release the second WIP up to CNZ2 and I will give them time to edit it, and let me know so I start with HTZ when they finish.
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WST
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Forgot to tell you one thing. It is easy to make CPZ2 more resplice-friendly: just don't touch that boss floor, use only solid floor instead. So you will not have to redo the boss fight in case of desync, and in the worst case scenario you will only have to re-break the capsule. I should have done it in my part, but thought of it too late.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Post subject: Ring Attack
Active player (464)
Joined: 11/16/2016
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I also do not know the proper way for splicing movie files. I have been doing this process manually. This maybe worth figuring out how to splice movie files some time. Evil_3D, It did not make sense to me to ignore potential real-time savings just because the game has an in-game timer but if you do not care to have this in the movie, that is fine with me. If you decide to try it yourself, I can provide some guidance on how I have been doing this; it is really not that bad. Below, I have provided a movie file that has the animal manipulation in EHZ2. I had to redo some of the inputs because the capsule was hit 3 frames later than the earliest opportunity. While I was copying the inputs into this file, I could not help but to feel that the section with the block cycle interference was slow, so I tried to get there sooner with the same route. CPZ1 is incomplete and I did not notice any obvious improvements in the rest of CPZ1 or CPZ2 (except for CPZ2, where at 1:39 into the level, there is a big up loop jump that gives Knuckles a lot of speed exiting the water) so I will leave this up to you where to proceed from here. GMV file
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Thanks Zurggriff, I made a try on the ARZ2 capsule. GMV file If you see any mistake in X frame only tell me, maybe if you want, you can finish CPZ1? only follow my steps and improve them, so WST can compile the 2 movies later, and start fresh with CNZ.
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WST
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Zurggriff wrote:
I have been doing this process manually
dd? fopen+fread+fwrite? :) I use this tool for this purpose, but yeah, it would be so good if there was an easier solution, for example, a Lua script detecting start/end position for the stages and creating a map + GUI application for choosing the parts. Good job on improving CPZ1, I could try finishing it. Evil_3D, for my eyes you are clearly breaking the capsule a few frames later than it can be done. Sorry, I think I cannot TAS today, have a very busy schedule…
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
marzojr
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WST wrote:
I use this tool for this purpose, but yeah, it would be so good if there was an easier solution, for example, a Lua script detecting start/end position for the stages and creating a map + GUI application for choosing the parts.
I did make such a script for S1 because it always desynchs due to lag (especially LZ) and it gets painful do it manually after the 100th desynch; the only thing the script actually handles is resynching around lag frames, though, so everything else must still be done manually. I had plans to adapt it for other Genesis Sonic games, but I never really went forward with it. I guess I could take a look at doing it this time.
Marzo Junior
Joined: 12/7/2016
Posts: 33
I dont know much about it but i seen Chemical Plant 2 and i think there are some moves that can be done a little faster and save a few more frames. this especially from what i saw in Chemical Plant 1.
Some Zamasu's quotes: - When I was invited to this place, I thought you would teach me about justice. However, does the justice of the gods not only pass by to observe? - Every time I am attacked, I enjoy my immortality.
Active player (464)
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Evil_3D, in this instance, it is better to point out how the capsule animals can be improved rather than identifying a sequence of inputs that make it faster. This is caused by a few reasons. The capsule animals will stay in sync once every 32 frames and with improvements coming before this point (hitting the capsule earlier, more pausing before the boss fight to save in-game time, CPZ), the animals may have different timing to jump. Hitting the ARZ2 capsule as is, there is a timer that will allow animals to spawn until it expires, then the game checks for animals on screen. In this case, the timer is at byte 00FFB59F. Ideally, this would count down by 1 unit per frame from 179 to 1, then change to 180 for 1 frame (this is when the check for animals occurs), and then change to 0 (indicates all animals are off camera)[all values given are Unsigned]. In the file provided, the timer stays at 180 for several frames because a flicky is late leaving the left side of the camera. Without changing anything before the capsule hit, the fastest way is likely achieved by deleting 1 animal spawn, in this case it is the animal that spawns at the 40 bytes starting at 00FFB8C0. This post in the Sonic 2 thread by marzojr describes deleting and adding boss explosions and animals, along with a Lua script, which contains a lot of information http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=423921#423921 Alternatively, the animals that will be loaded can be manipulated prior to hitting the capsule. In most levels, this is done by deleting or adding boss explosions but there are none in this level. However, destroying badniks also manipulates the animals and there is an opportunity to so during the time spent waiting for an air bubble (this would require redoing some of the level).
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Sorry but I really don't want to redo ARZ2 because required tons of work and hours of TASing for sync only a few animals, better leave it like that, guys I think it is more recommended to use this in a any% run, no offense, also, I don't know nothing about the memory address or something like that or LUA scripts. later I will redo CPZ1 and ARZ2 final for touch the capsule in the correct frame, on the missing frames in CPZ2, I did it to be in sync with the moving cube and do glide glitch on it ~frame 26480~ in case they see rare movements, to make the run look fluid and without pauses EDIT I hope I did not troubled anyone because of what I said before~ I finished CPZ1 in Zurggriff movie and fixed ARZ2 capsule in the other movie (save some frames). Zurggriff Movie Original Movie WST when you can combine the 2 movies
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WST
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I’ll do it soon, give me a few hours Meanwhile, I want to give you a small tip about the capsule. When you break the capsule perfectly, you cannot start looking up immediately, because you are staying on the very edge of the button. You have to move right a little — and that’s exactly what you did. However, your braking there was clearly imperfect, because of which you started looking up a few frames later than it could be done. The best way of braking in this particular case is abusing that horizontal boundary that limits your movement and hitting it by flying and landing for 1-2 frames. Thus you will be able to start looking up significally earlier. (upd) As expected, CPZ2 boss desynced again; give me some more time to redo the boss fight, a bit busy/lazy right now.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Take your time do not worry and thanks for the tip CPZ2 boss is cursed lol
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WST
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1404878208/TAS-S2K-Knuckles-RingAttack-Evil3D-WST-Zurggriff.gmv Here it is. I am absolutely lazy to learn about the animal optimization, so, if Zurggriff really wants to change CPZ2, better if he resplices the run himself then.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Editor, Experienced player (586)
Joined: 10/22/2016
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Thanks WST! I made a encode of the second WIP Link to video Really the progress is going very well :)
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Joined: 12/7/2016
Posts: 33
It is really necessary to wait for the air bubble at 1:03 ARZ2? Sometimes an auxiliary attempt can be made to finish the level without waiting for the air bubble to see if it results and saves time.
Some Zamasu's quotes: - When I was invited to this place, I thought you would teach me about justice. However, does the justice of the gods not only pass by to observe? - Every time I am attacked, I enjoy my immortality.
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Yes, it is necessary. If you see my test-run of ARZ2 (page 5 of this topic) at 1:05 I go up to breathe, but in the movie I hit the ring monitor to get it down and continue (this save more time),and later I take the air bubble so I do not drown, is a inversion of frames literally. I leave the test-run for you to see Link to video
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Joined: 12/7/2016
Posts: 33
I understand, but I mean to make a copy of the movie until that time and try to finish the level without taking the air bubble. If the attempt fails, it is discarded. Well, that's my suggestion.
Some Zamasu's quotes: - When I was invited to this place, I thought you would teach me about justice. However, does the justice of the gods not only pass by to observe? - Every time I am attacked, I enjoy my immortality.
WST
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Evil_3D, Zamasu is right — it’s worth an attempt. For my eyes it could be possible.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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I also had this doubt and I tried but failed You can see it here: gmv file
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Sorry for the inactivity this days, I was a little busy, today I did 50% of CN1 ~12 seconds ahead of my testrun, not bad personally this level have a lot of variety of strategies, sadly in the any% always is skipped with a "screen warp" but in this run is very fun to play and what movement is more fast, and always found an improvement to do. File
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Joined: 12/7/2016
Posts: 33
Evil_3D, you said that in Casino Night Zone 2 of youtube video, you could not take all the rings and your score was 314/324. i was checking the level and i cant find those 10 missing rings, because those 10 rings can't be taken?
Some Zamasu's quotes: - When I was invited to this place, I thought you would teach me about justice. However, does the justice of the gods not only pass by to observe? - Every time I am attacked, I enjoy my immortality.
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Sadly not buddy, after thousand of attempts I'm 100% sure that rings are unreachable without debug mode or not stay stuck in the attempt I can give you my image of CNZ2 so you can see where they are http://www.mediafire.com/file/1amwsabpz9wuf14/CNZ2.png I do not upload it to a host of images because it looks ugly sorry for that
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
WST
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Damn, what a troll an idiot put those rings there (facepalm)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Joined: 12/7/2016
Posts: 33
WST wrote:
Damn, what a troll an idiot put those rings there (facepalm)
i dont know, probably those rings have been there since forever (so the idiot was some level designer of the time of game), however, i seen the Evil_3D videos of youtube and he has taken these types of rings from other levels, so Evil_3D have done a good job with this "Ring Attack". although, some levels like Hill Top 2 and Mystic Cave 2 need faster methods since they wait a lot idly. and well i have no idea how to improve some things, maybe i just can observe.
Some Zamasu's quotes: - When I was invited to this place, I thought you would teach me about justice. However, does the justice of the gods not only pass by to observe? - Every time I am attacked, I enjoy my immortality.
Editor, Experienced player (586)
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Don't worry, WST showed me the camera trick is possible in Sonic 2, so I can skip the lava chamber quickly, about the trick in MC2 is the only trick I found that can get the 2 rings in the top of the level (I hope some SEGA level designer was fired for this). I need the flasher (badnik) to get into the perfect position, I discovered that every time the movement of that guy is faster and further, and fortunately he goes to the top sometimes, it takes time of course when his in the perfect possition i can perfom the glide jump and grab this 2 rings. I think without this badnik it would be impossible, I tried 1000 ways but this was the winner Link to video I have to stay in that position because his movement is restarted
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Patashu
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Sonic 2 isn't the only game to have leftover collectibles far out of the bounds of the level. Yoshi's Island also did it: https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_World_2:_Yoshi's_Island#Shifting_Platforms_Ahead A lot of other platformers likely did too, but only in Sonic 2 does it really matter due to the goals of the 'Ring Attack'.
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