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Migu
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It's been a while, but I finished the TAS two days ago! It will be revealed on twitch.tv/anwonu this Sunday the 23rd at about 3 PM Eastern.
Joined: 5/9/2005
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That's great news! I saw on your latest YouTube video you were hoping for a March release, so I was starting to be concerned that something had gone wrong. Time zones will mean it's unlikely I'll be able to catch the stream but looking forward to catching up on it. Do you intend for the stream going to have audio commentary on it? Anyway; grats on completing the project! I eagerly anticipate your next TAS if you have future plans.
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That's great news indeed! Did Anwonu see the run already or will it be a surprise to him? And are you planning on submitting it?
Migu
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@Paused Nothing really went wrong, just optimizing took longer than I expected. There will be mostly unscripted commentary on twitch. @MUGG I've sent the encode to Anwonu, don't know if he'll watch it before the stream or if he'll make it a surprise for him. And I'll submit on Sunday, assuming I finish the notes by then.
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I won't watch the video before Sunday, so I'll watch pretty much blind. The most I saw was the WIP that Migu posted november.
Migu
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Since I finished this TAS, a bunch of new glitches were found that have led to about 20 minutes of timesave. Here is a doc with all of the new findings: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oOEv4GPXC4qZ7lzriDkyvL1q6QcV4ub98rV-F_xiMME/edit?usp=sharing I expect more glitches/skips to be found, so I will wait to begin a new TAS because I don't want to start over if a skip is found halfway through TASing. Also, the game needs to be rerouted, notably since I'm pretty sure the US version is faster due to exclusive glitches, even with increased boss health. There is one US-exclusive glitch that is not understood well. If Mario is standing still on ground that is below the ground Luigi is on, Luigi will try to walk to Mario, but can't reach him since their heights are different. When Luigi reaches Mario's X and Z positions, on non-US versions, Luigi just stops, but on US, Luigi teleports somewhere. If he teleports to a close location, he will continue trying to go to Mario, resulting in another teleport once he reaches Mario's position. If he teleports far enough away, he will stop moving. In some cases, Mario can then teleport to Luigi after Mario starts moving again. This is useful if Luigi teleports out of bounds, because he can bring Mario out of bounds with him. This is used for a sequence break in Gritzy Caves. However, we have no way of manipulating where Luigi teleports to. If anyone is looking for a glitch to experiment with and figure out, I'd love your help. Also, here's an invite to the series discord server: https://discord.gg/2AfNrh9
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I'm surprised there's so many skips possible for this game. For instance, that Gritzy Desert Skip. Can a trick be done for getting to Toad town from the sewers? Also is backtracking from the desert to yoshi's island needed, or can you execute this without doing so? Also when it said "(U only, crashes on console)" does it mean it isn't valid, or the current way to execute it crashes (like the Toad Town trick)? Also what exactly is in out of bounds? Is it a large area of nothing? Edit: Nevermind:
LucasGX Nah, not Yoshi's Island. I simply showed it off at the earliest possible time, but you need to best Yoshi's Island first and get the ball move to be able to progress. It does skip Gritzy Desert though. However we recently found out that a part of this glitch actually only works on emulator, for unknown reasons, thus making the skip invalid :( We haven't found an alternate way to make it work on console yet sadly.
RIP. Is that the only trick that crashes on console so far with no alternative? The site does not support emulator bugs, so it would be annoying if they ended up unusable.
Migu
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Out of bounds is an area with no collision/air detection so you can walk forever. Some rooms have out of bounds walls, though. It's unfortunate that some crashes are not emulated accurately, or at all. The crash that prevents that skip from working on console is when entering a time hole while the babies are on the top screen of a different room. If there was a way to prevent that crash, then after going through the time hole the babies are "fake" (you can't pick them up) so you can't use the blue switches to access other floors of the castle. If there was a way to keep real babies on the top screen and the bottom screen, it would likely be possible to open the Shroob Castle gate early and the Toad Town gate early. I am looking for an alternative way to do that skip, and have gotten pretty close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f4t2ENbTT4 It would still be U-only but would probably work on console.
Fortranm
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Does that skip crash the game on WiiU VC? It doesn't validate inaccurate emulation in Desmume tho.
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Migu wrote:
I am looking for an alternative way to do that skip, and have gotten pretty close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f4t2ENbTT4 It would still be U-only but would probably work on console.
Nice. How viable is that for real time? Also, what exactly happens if you skipped the dome, beat petey piranha, then went back inside and tried fighting Shrooboid brat?
Migu
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The stump storage trick is relatively easy. The only hard part is clearing the text right before entering the loading zone. We just need to activate the stair-lowering script (or maybe the pipe-entering script) instead of the pipe-exiting script, but there's no way of manipulating which script activates when you exit the top screen. The only way to activate a different script is by using a different top screen, but that's the only top screen from Gritzy Desert I've been able to store. If you skip the dome, the elevator to the arena is gone, as well as the cutscene that plays when you enter the dome.
Migu
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Gate skip was found by SolidifiedGaming: Link to video It is quite a simple trick but saves 50-60 minutes! I will begin routing for a new TAS soon.
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Wow, it's amazing how broken this game has become this year... That gate skip reminds me of OoT door of time btw.
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What happens when you try to leave the castle? Does it get you stuck inside the closed door, or will it magically open? Still, very nice trick! I hope more uses are found for it.
Memory
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jlun2 wrote:
What happens when you try to leave the castle? Does it get you stuck inside the closed door, or will it magically open? Still, very nice trick! I hope more uses are found for it.
The door itself has no collision, but you can clip back through the gate the same way you clipped in.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Really_Tall
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This saves another 35 minutes by skipping Gritzy Desert, the Koopaseum and Gritzy Caves, for about 1:30 saved total. Link to video
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Really_Tall wrote:
This saves another 35 minutes by skipping Gritzy Desert, the Koopaseum and Gritzy Caves, for about 1:30 saved total. https://youtube.com/watch?v=dQZPOhA5cqM
Not exactly how desert skip was imagined, but hey, at least it's skippable now. 1. What versions should the run be done on now? 2. If you were to beat the game up to the UFO battle at the Princess Shroob statue, and then went back outside the castle to play the game's story "normally", would it allow you? 3. With every area before the desert out of the way, any more other potential skips? 4. How viable is it in real time? Not just the execution, but the final fights due to severe underleveled.
Really_Tall
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jlun2 wrote:
1. What versions should the run be done on now? 2. If you were to beat the game up to the UFO battle at the Princess Shroob statue, and then went back outside the castle to play the game's story "normally", would it allow you? 3. With every area before the desert out of the way, any more other potential skips? 4. How viable is it in real time? Not just the execution, but the final fights due to severe underleveled.
1. For TAS and RTA, E/J is faster than U. When it was only Gate Skip and the desert still needed done, Migu said the timesave of U had been reduced to only a minute for TAS. With Baby Spin Skip the extra health for the final boss is an even bigger factor now, and the only U exclusive skips left that haven't been obsoleted by these new skips are minor (it's only stuff in Yoshi's Island). 2. I believe so, but that has not been tested specifically. Migu was saying it seems you can do stuff out of order, and a routing idea for a potential All Bosses category is doing Gate Skip straight after getting ball to grab some items. 3. I'm guessing you mean after the desert. There are still some potential skips: using top screen storage it might be possible to trigger the final Yoshi's Island cutscene early, skipping the entire area, but not with current knowledge. Some additional clips in Shroob Castle could also save a couple of minutes. The amount of potential skips for Any% is pretty diminished though, every skip in this document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/17U8ZGFvvhP74TDrUWvLMq4yO-y2Lix52QAHWMbsHbrk/edit) made a couple of weeks ago is now irrelevant lol. 4. There will be detours in the castle to grab items, and likely some grinding for a couple of levels. Snoion said he thinks 2:40 will be an amazing time, but no routes have been fully tested yet.
Migu
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I finally started the new TAS recently, here is a WIP up to Swiggler: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/44422930035638373 And here is the route I'm using: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k-u6PkPxMxD1JaMfLsAbpgfl72WChrOf-RdJ_h2DEnM/pub
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Migu wrote:
I finally started the new TAS recently, here is a WIP up to Swiggler: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/44422930035638373 And here is the route I'm using: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k-u6PkPxMxD1JaMfLsAbpgfl72WChrOf-RdJ_h2DEnM/pub
Right, I just watched your TAS. Good job, but I noticed some other potential skip that could cut another 10 or so minutes, and was wondering if it was actually possible to perform. My knowledge on TSS is minimal, so this could be impossible, but just something interesting In Area 1 of the Shroob Castle, [where the time warp is] there is an area that contains a lot of pipes (this is the easternmost area.) The area that Mario and Luigi are in is where the pipe is. The area that Baby Mario and Baby luigi are in has a top screen. I was curious if it was possible to somehow exploit the top screen located there to clip out of bounds, go to the area that Modern M and L are shown in and access the rightmost pipe, leading directly to the Shroob Statue bottom. Perhaps it is possible to do so without using TSS as the babies need to be on Mario and Luigi to enter the pipe which makes this harder, or maybe, it is just impossible in total. If possible, it would allow skipping the second area with the outside and the bookshelf area. I will try and see if there's a clip possible for this, but I am also curious if you all think it is possible or not. Also, congratulations on the TAS! I loved the commentary, and it was enjoyable to watch the game of my childhood be TAS in two hours. Was amazing
Migu
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Thank you! That is one skip we've tried to find. I'm pretty sure it would be possible if we could get the adults into the dark room, which would probably require getting out of bounds in the center room. There are invisible walls out of bounds in the pipe room, which could pose a problem, but you can probably ball clip through them. You could hit the ! block to open a way for the babies, or bring the babies out of bounds by collecting them.
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How does the RNG determine which attack an enemy uses if it can have multiple attacks?
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MeM Chris ??? wrote:
I know this video is old, but i have another glitch. You know the scene where kylie koopa is fed to Petey Phirana, right? You're supposed to get there with mario and luigi with the new bros ball. I found an exploit in the physics that allows you to get there with the babies. The scene is also funny when you do that. I don't know if it's on virtual console, i did it on a cartridge. It doesn't break the game, it substitutes sprites and sounds for the cutscene.
Migu
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My guess is he did that with the warping glitch from the platform with the ! block in the previous room and got "lucky" with teleporting to the right side of the room. On this note, we've actually found a bit more about how this glitch works: https://pastebin.com/PjgHPBJM and https://pastebin.com/UAdQNYtc. It's quite similar to hat teleporting in SS. It's also possible to watch that cutscene with the babies by jumping down the tunnel you're supposed to roll through. I doubt he did that though since it's extremely precise and not really a physics exploit. Edit: maybe he did do this since he said it was tedious as hell in a reply
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It was suggested here that this game should be looked at for the possibility of save corruption. How do savegames and checksums work in this game? (This will also be posted to Mario & Luigi Bowser's Inside Story.)
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