Post subject: Krusty's Super Fun House
Player (104)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada
Hey everyone! I'm intending to do the TAS for Krusty's Super Fun House really soon. It's going to distract me from the hard work of Earthbound. I noticed that there are two versions of this game... v1.0 and v1.1 ... anybody knows the difference between the two? Also, I'd like some feedback to know if you'd like to see this run or not. Thanks!
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
I think most of the time will be spent waiting for the stupid slow mice to walk to their doom. Not sure if it'll be too interesting. Unless there is some way to make the mice walk faster, that is. I have no idea what the difference between those versions are, but I'm taking a wild guess that there are more glitches in the 1.0 version, so you should probably use that one. I know only one trick, and that is jumping from a block and picking it up at the same time. It's so easy, it can be done on the console. Good luck. :)
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
I abused the suicide button too often in this game...
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Yeah. Really slow game. I own it my self and even on console there is too much waiting. But I suspect your going to get some monster time bonuses. This game is going to be very repeditive. But a run is always a run and I don't mind seeing every game submitted anyways. :D I'm gonna watch this baby with full frame skip I beleive. Good luck.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I would actually love to see this game done. I also own it on console and I played it pretty much when I was younger. The game itself is pretty hard and stupid sometimes, but in a TAS I think it would be cool to see the puzzles being solved as fast as possible. I also guess that it is possible to build stairs with blocks in a whole new way with slowdown. Maybe 2-3 blocks is enough to build a very long stair for the mice? On console you pretty much need every block you can find but now you might not.
/Walker Boh
Player (104)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada
Okay ... forget about this TAS from me. I won't do it. At first I thought it would be a piece of cake, something to entertain me while I do Earthbound... but it's just too much work. A lot more than I expected it to be at first. Oh well ... if anyone want to make this one, I'll be happy to watch it.
Joined: 9/14/2005
Posts: 8
A run of this game is not really that entertaining because of the sitting at the level exit while it's being finished... Although for people who want to see the levels done, i'd go for it. Personally, I'd like to watch the puzzles be finished quickly.
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
So you're going to delve in to this Neko?
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Actually, maybe the character wouldn't need to stand around so much. The time it takes the mice to die can be spent breaking boxes and killing enemies, getting as many points as possible without wasting time. No, I'm not doing this game either, it is more difficult than it seems. (I tried it for a little bit.)
Joined: 11/28/2004
Posts: 138
http://www.geocities.com/skolehater159/krusty.zip Half of the lvls at first stage done, looks like crap but, atleast it may help.
The best time you have is the time you share with other people.
Post subject: WIP of Areas 1 through 3
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Skilled player (1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Hello All, Been currently working on Krusty's Super Fun House (SNES) and decided to share my work so far. After going through Area 1, I started thinking that this game was not TAS worthy; however, Area 2 started showing me that I was wrong. Maybe some of you can share your thoughts. Here is a video that I created of areas 1, 2, and 3 Note that in Area 3, I have not added any fill-in inputs for when krusty is sitting around doing nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCd9J4Y8O18 Here is some technical data that I picked up from RAM Watching: 7e002E (Bonus Timer) 7e00D3 (Related to game play, 1 when inputs are accepted, 0 when they aren't) 7e0048 (Rats remaining) 7e0056 (X Position of Krusty, relative to the map of the room he is currently in) 7e005A (Y Position of Krusty, relative to the map of the room he is currently in) 7e030C (X Speed - incremental counter before altering X Speed (pixels)) 7e030D (X Speed in pixels) 7e030E (Y Speed - incremental counter before altering Y Speed (pixels)) 7e030F (Y Speed in pixels) 7e11A4 (Health - 99 is the max, either 10 points or 15 points are subtracted for certain hits) Here is a listing of the levels visited, in game order, to know what to expect: *Note: I have tried my best to be as scientific as possible when determining the following, but rest assured that it is my way of noting the strength of this TAS. 0 Being humanly comparable in terms of Time 10 Being impossible for a human to measure up to. Area 1-1: 0 Area 1-2: 10 Area 1-3: 0 Area 1-4: 10 Area 1-5: 0 Area 1-6: 4 Area 1-7: 6 Area 1-8: 10 Area 2-1: 6 Area 2-2: 7 Area 2-3: 10 Area 2-4: 3 Area 2-5: 7 Area 2-6: 10 Area 2-7: 10 Area 2-8: 10 Area 2-9: 10 Area 2-10: 10 Area 3-1: 10 Area 3-2: 7 Area 3-3: 10 Area 3-4: 10 Area 3-5: 10 Area 3-6: 10 Area 3-7: 5 Area 3-8: 8 Area 3-9: 9 Area 3-10: 10 Area 3-11: 10 Area 3-12: 10 Area 3-13: 10 Area 3-14: 7
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Skilled player (1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I've spent the last 4 months revisiting my earlier submission of Krusty's Super Fun House. One thing that I have noticed, is that this game is like chess. After I sat down and studied the reasons that make this game faster...I realized that I had a flawed approach. Even though I have currently cut 5149 frames from my original submission, I am still on the hunt for more frames. Here are some details that I believe will explain my latest findings: 1. When rats are in close quarters, getting a single rat in the chamber as fast as possible is top priority. 2. When rats are spread across widely enough that the cycle of the death chamber can complete before the next rat enters, gives indication on where to focus attention. What I mean by this is, that some rats may be in a line where some are 1 block from each other while others are several blocks apart. You want to focus on how to manage the tighter group, without ignoring the advantage of the first rat being ahead. 3. You have to eliminate all falls and climbs, as much as possible. Even a rat going over one block wastes 16 frames. 4. Sometimes the last rat is a focus, when having to deal with many rats at a time. For example, if there is a lot of chaos trying to set up a pathway for many rats...you have to take in consideration how it will affect the ending rat. There are times when too much going on can hurt the time is takes to have a last rat make it in time. One particular spot...I have to slow down a number of rats in order to "clump" them together to make it faster. 5. The Death chamber entrances are superficial....meaning, if you have a rat enter one of the bottom entrances, it is no different than if you "Fan" a rat over into the top part of the chamber. It is basically, one big hit box. 6 The death chamber operates on an 8 frame rule. If you end up getting back to the door before the rats are finished, then cutting up to 7 frames may not give you an advantage...depending on if you hit the 8 frame rule on the very first part. 7. Krusty's jumping acceleration is maintained longer, if you hold the jump button longer. This goes without saying, but I bring this up to demonstrate an important fact. If you are in tight quarters, jumping longer can help you "Clear" obstacles faster. 8. Krusty has an acceleration address that builds up to indicate how fast his movement is, in terms of horizontal speed. When in tight quarters (where you cannot move left or right), you can press the opposite direction for one frame and then press forward to get this value incrementing faster. In a turn (which is that tight), the value is not reset...giving you a frame or two advantage. One thing to note, you have to be facing in the forward direction for this to work. {NOTHING}, FORWARD, BACK, FORWARD is the inputs that you want. I'm also currently glitch hunting. It is sad that the only glitch that I've run across is clipping. But it is very limited. In fact, it is use only a couple of places to help create a route that is more efficient. In fact, one particular spot helped to cut around 8 seconds. But there are no floors to be clipping that will make a difference. How clipping works in this game. If you are about to place a block down AND you have 1 block of space above you, then you can place the block down at the point when Krusty either passes from the 8th to 9th pixel or 9th to 8th pixel...depending on your direction. Once executed, you will get pushed into a block that would have normally kept you from moving. The problem is, you can't move up, if another block is above you. You can't move left or right, if blocks are next to you. So, you can clip a floor in this manner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y9xuUGExCM I expect to still find more frames, but it is becoming more painful to find them. If I can't find a frame after a month's worth of trying, then I will go back to fill in the "Dead" space and make my final submission (I hope the final). This newer version is much more active and also doesn't sit around the door as much. I would say that about 20% of the door twitching time has been removed. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Post subject: The "Elbow"
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Skilled player (1679)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 815
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
3 more months have yielded quite a large number of frames to be cut. 10814 to be exact at this moment. Rooms with more pieces, and especially if they are all different) opens up a number of ways that a puzzle can be solved. Even with great movement optimization, strategies are becoming harder and harder to come across. Since my last posting, a new discovery has made big differences. The "Elbow". This piece has turned out to be one of the most robust pieces to obtain. There are a number of ways to use this piece: 1. The trivial use of connecting pipes 2. Redirecting rats towards an opposite direction. (Especially useful for when rats are moving left where the "Turn-Around" cannot affect direction change.) 3. Slowing rats down. In essence...this piece can be used to slow down rats so that some tight situations can become possible. This will be evident in "The Long Room" for Area 3, where I have reduced the amount of pieces used and was able to accomplish a task that I couldn't before. In this case, slowing down the rat included blocking the opposite end so that I can prepare my next move without the lack of time to pull of a stairway climb. 4. Speeding up rats. When a rat enters a pipe or elbow, they immediately are captured for quick forward movement. With correct timing, you can speed up horizontal movement of rats. Additionally, this step can be repeating multiple times to keep up the fast forward movement of the rats. One draw back...you cannot do it more than twice in a row, without resetting your position ahead by one block. 5. Turn around glitch. As with any piece. the elbow can also be used to perform the "Turn-Around" glitch...which is still only possible for right moving rats. With a piece that is so versatile, it helps to reduce the time it would take to grab pieces to accomplish the puzzle. In some cases, it has eliminated 1 piece and thus a lot of time. I feel like I'm at the end of the cuts, but I'm still searching and experimenting with more routes and strategies.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX