Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Riddler Express this week sounds interesting: You purchase a new clock but are dismayed to realize that both of its hands are identical. At first, it seems it’s going to be impossible to tell the time because you don’t know which hand is for the minutes and which is for the hours. However, you realize you don’t need to know which is which for every time — for example, when it’s 12:30, the minute hand will be exactly on the 6 and the hour hand will be halfway between the 12 and the 1. It can’t be the other way around because if the hour hand were exactly on 6, the minute hand would have to exactly on 12, which it’s not. So you know what time it is. How many times during the day will you not be able to tell the time?
CoolHandMike
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Experienced player (897)
Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717
- He can always tell the time because he has a smart phone. - He returned the clock and got one that was not constructed improperly. - Mark both hands' position with maybe a pencil and come back a short time later. The hand that has a greater movement is the true minute hand. Replace that one with a minute hand. Or get a marker open the clock and color that one a different color and maybe write a M on it or something. From then on you can always tell the correct time pretty accurately. -- Hour hand moves in increments away from the past hour so at any point there should be some angle between the last hour mark and next except on the hour. So I say 22 times you cannot tell the time. Unless he is in some shuttered room, light outside should help determine AM/PM. The brightness of light might provide more clues to decrease unlikely times aka dawn/evening. ------- Close?
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
HHS
Active player (286)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
I love those answers! Assuming he doesn't rectify the problem however, the answer is 264. That would be every 12/143 hour, except for the times where the hands are at the same position, which is every 12/11 hour.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
FractalFusion wrote:
Riddler Express this week sounds interesting: You purchase a new clock but are dismayed to realize that both of its hands are identical. At first, it seems it’s going to be impossible to tell the time because you don’t know which hand is for the minutes and which is for the hours. However, you realize you don’t need to know which is which for every time — for example, when it’s 12:30, the minute hand will be exactly on the 6 and the hour hand will be halfway between the 12 and the 1. It can’t be the other way around because if the hour hand were exactly on 6, the minute hand would have to exactly on 12, which it’s not. So you know what time it is. How many times during the day will you not be able to tell the time?
I found a very elegant solution for this problem using complex numbers! If you measure the angle of each hand from the 12 marker, making it positive when it turns clockwise, the angular velocity of the minutes pointer is 12 times larger than the angular velocity of the hours pointer. Because of that, the angle of the minutes hand will be (up to possible multiples of 2pi) 12 times the angle of the hours hand. It's impossible to tell the time if the angle of the hours hand also turns out to be 12 times the angle of the minutes hand, excluding, of course, the places where the pointers are at the same angle. So, given two angles ah and am for hours and minutes, respectively, you can define two complex numbers: zh=exp(i*ah) zm=exp(i*am) Now, we will always have zm = (zh)12. At an ambiguous time, we'll have zh = (zm)12 That's the same as saying (zh)144=zh or (zh)143 = 1 That happens when the hours angle is a multiple of 2pi/143, so in a twelve hour interval, that condition will happen 143 times. Now, we need to look at where in these places the two pointers will be at the same angle, which gives just (zh)12=zh or (zh)11 = 1. Since 143/11 = 13, we want only 12/13 of the 143 times. So, in a twelve hour period, we have 12/13*143 = 12*11 = 132, and of course 2*132=264 during the day.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Here's a relative simple problem I came up with today. It does involve a bit of calculation, though. Let a, b, c be three numbers satisfying a + b + c = 1 a² + b² + c² = 2 a³ + b³ + c³ = 3 What is the value of a⁴+b⁴+c⁴?
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
That involves a hell of a lot of calculation, unless I am quite mistaken. You eventually get down to the following cubic: 6z^3 - 6z^2 - 3z + 1 = 0 With the other two variables being equal to: (-z + 1 +- sqrt(-3z^2 + 2z + 3))/2 And when you find the only real root of the cubic you have: z = 1/6 (2 + cbrt(44 + 6 sqrt(26)) + cbrt(44 - 6 sqrt(26))) And the exact solution for x^4 + y^4 + z^4 is extremely long, but it's approximately 3.793.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
I did not solve it by writing the polynomial equation, so I cannot review your method. But I am sure that the answer (which I got in many different ways) is 25/6, or in decimals 4.16666... (which is incidentally approximately 4, which is what the sequence would suggest :D) So, I think you should see if you did not miss something...
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
Here's my full calculation: rendered version. EDIT: I figured out my mistake. I didn't substitute correctly and I dropped a critical factor of 1/2 in equation 14. now my result agrees with yours.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
HHS
Active player (286)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Beware, two of the a, b, and c's will be complex. They should in fact be the other two roots of the cubic equation.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
EDIT: I figured out my mistake. I didn't substitute correctly and I dropped a critical factor of 1/2 in equation 14. now my result agrees with yours.
FWIW, here's my solution. I essentially kept playing on Wolfram Alpha until I found an identity involving the polynomials (an+bn+cn). The identity I found is: (a+b+c)⁴ = 6(a⁴+b⁴+c⁴) - 8(a³+b³+c³)(a+b+c) + 6(a²+b²+c²)(a+b+c)² - 3(a²+b²+c²)² The proof can be found visiting here. Now, simply substitute everything: 1 = 6x - 8*3 + 6*2 - 3*4 => 6x = 25 => x = 25/6 After doing this I wonder if there is some closed formula for identities like this involving higher powers, or more terms. But this discussion would make this post much longer, so it's better to leave it out.
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
I did it incrementally. And similar to what p4wn3r did, you don't ever need to leave the world of symmetric polynomials. ● (a+b+c)2 = a2+b2+c2 + 2(ab+ac+bc) → ab+ac+bc = (12-2)/2 = -1/2 ● (a2+b2+c2)(a+b+c) = a3+b3+c3 + a2b+ab2+a2c+ac2+b2c+bc2 → a2b+ab2+a2c+ac2+b2c+bc2 = 2(1) - 3 = -1 ● (ab+ac+bc)(a+b+c) = a2b+ab2+a2c+ac2+b2c+bc2 + 3abc → abc = ((-1/2)(1)-(-1))/3 = 1/6 ● (ab+ac+bc)2 = a2b2+a2c2+b2c2 + 2a2bc+2ab2c+2abc2 → a2b2+a2c2+b2c2 = (-1/2)2 - 2abc(a+b+c) = 1/4 - 2(1/6)(1) = -1/12 ● (a2+b2+c2)2 = a4+b4+c4 + 2(a2b2+a2c2+b2c2) → a4+b4+c4 = 22 - 2(-1/12) = 25/6. I imagine you would get higher symmetric polynomials using this method. ---- Actually, there is a method to solve this using a recursive formula that gives you all higher powers an+bn+cn for n≥4. If we define f(n)=an+bn+cn, then f(n) is the solution to a recursive formula with f(1)=1, f(2)=2, f(3)=3 and whose characteristic polynomial is: (x-a)(x-b)(x-c) = x3 - (a+b+c)x2 + (ab+bc+ac)x - abc = x3 - x2 - (1/2)x - (1/6), that is, f(n) = f(n-1) + (1/2)f(n-2) + (1/6)f(n-3). Plugging in gives f(4) = f(3)+(1/2)f(2)+(1/6)f(1) = 25/6, and you can use this formula to get the higher powers: f(5)=6, f(6)=103/12≈8.5833, and so on.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
My brother, Teal Knight, came up with a logic puzzle and I'm posting it on his behalf: The notorious villain, "Cheese Shogun", is at large, and The Resistance needs to send a party of Heroes to stop him! He has stolen an artifact called the "Dark Mirror", which has X charges (3 by default), and when a charge is used on a Hero, a Dark Copy of that Hero is made - so strong that it can wipe the entire party singlehandedly! However, The Resistance has a trick up their sleeve - For each Hero they send, they can imbue that Hero with the ability to Counter one or more other specific Heroes. (For example, the 1st Hero might be a Dragon with a Sword of Elf Slaying, the 2nd Hero might be an Elf with a Sword of Demon Slaying, and the 3rd Hero might be a Demon with a Sword of Dragon Slaying). After assembling a team of Heroes, repeat the following steps over and over: 1) The Villain uses one Dark Mirror charge to make a Dark Copy of a Hero. 2) The Dark Copy kills all Heroes that it can counter (for example, the Elf Dark Copy slays the Demon) 3) If a Hero is still alive that can counter the Dark Copy, then the Dark Copy dies (for example, the Dragon slays the Elf Dark Copy) 4) If the Dark Copy is still alive, the entire party dies and the Villain wins. 5) If the Dark Mirror is out of charges, the Villain loses as the remaining party members overwhelm him. 6) GOTO 1. For each value of X charges, what is the minimum number of heroes N The Resistance must send to ensure the Villain cannot win, and what setup of counters do those N heroes have? For X = 1, it's very simple - just a rock paper scissors triangle of counters. But for X = 2 and beyond, it gets harder, because each hero needs to be countered by at least 2 other heroes (otherwise you would copy the counter to that hero's hero's one counter, then copy that hero, and win that way), and those two counters need to not be countered by the same hero (otherwise you would copy that hero's two counters' shared counter, then copy that hero, and win that way). And the more charges, the more ways there are to fail.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Editor, Skilled player (1345)
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Nice puzzle. I don't have the time to put much thought into it right now, but I found it to be useful to think of each hero as a point in the plane. If you arrange them in a square, it's easy to see that N = (X+1)^2 is an upper bound for the amount of heroes the Resistance must send, though it's sub-optimal even for X = 1.
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVoUfT49xN9TU-gDMHv57sw Projects: SMW 96 exit. SDW any%, with Amaraticando. SMA2 SMW small only Kaizo Mario World 3
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I'm told that this is apparently a really hard problem: Find positive integer values for x, y and z such that x/(y+z) + y/(x+z) + z/(x+y) = 4 I have a solution, and it's not very small.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Yes, that's an extremely hard problem. It's not difficult to find the answer with a computer algebra system if you know how to look for it. However, proving that it's the smaller is essentially mechanical application of algorithms. This was extracted from this paper: http://ami.ektf.hu/uploads/papers/finalpdf/AMI_43_from29to41.pdf The main ideas are: 1) Notice that the equation x/(y+z) + y/(x+z) + z/(x+y) = 4 represents a space of dimension 2. This is seen by noticing that, if you have a solution (x,y,z), you automatically obtain another one by transforming to (ka,kb,kc). 2) So, it should be possible to reduce this to a projective curve. 3) Since you only care about integral solutions, you are actually looking for rational points in that projective curve. One thing about algebraic curves is that they sometimes turn out to be equivalent to each other (think about isomorphic graphs, for example). 4) In that case, the pretty name for what we are looking for is birational equivalence. It essentially means that you can find a transformation that maps rational numbers to rational numbers in another curve, so that any operation you do on one of them gets translated to another. 5) It turns out that this projective curve is isomorphic to an elliptic curve, the transformation can be found in equation (2.1) of the paper I linked. Keep in mind that although it's a complicated thing to find, today most mathematical software implements some good algorithms and can tell you if the curve is isomorphic to an elliptic one, and the rational transformation if it is. 6) Reducing the problem is a good thing, because it means it can be solved (but it's not easy). The nice thing about them is that their algebra has a simple structure, you can "add" two points in the curve to obtain a third one. The details can be seen here. 7) If you find a rational point at the curve, you can understand the algebra by adding the point to itself. Say you find a point A. Then you can compute a sequence: A -> A + A -> A + A + A -> A + A + A + A -> ... It might happen that you eventually reach a cycle. In that case, we have what we call a finite group. It also might happen that it goes on forever and you have an infinite chain. 8) These properties are encoded in the so-called rank of the elliptic curve. A rank of 0 means you have a finite number of rational points. A rank of 1 means you have besides those an infinite chain, a rank of 2 means you have two infinite chains and so on. 9) Now, for the particular elliptic curve we obtain from that equation, it turns out that its rank is 1. This is very complicated to prove, but computer programs today can instantly find rational points and compute the rank. 10) When you check that the rank is 1 it's simple to enumerate all possible solutions and check if they give you positive x, y and z. You first check the ones in the finite group . If none of them work, you go to the ones in the infinite chain. When you keep summing the point to itself you get bigger and bigger numbers, so at the smallest "multiple" of the point you get the smallest solution. In the paper, the authors prove that repeating this always works to get positive x, y and z, but the probability is very small, and the answer turns out to be very large. 11) If you look at table 2, you see that the smallest solution for the equation has 81 digits! Don't be disappointed if you don't understand all the steps in the solution. It's a very hard problem and most of the time the only way to work with this is to use computers. Elliptic curves are very complicated objects, they are used in cryptography because their algebra is simple to implement, but extremely tough to understand. To have a notion of the complexity, the solution of Fermat's Last Theorem can be summarized as saying that every elliptic curve can be understood as a modular curve, which is some sort of projection of a generalized complex plane. It turns out that proving this simple statement took a ridiculously long time and the proof is extremely technical. Today it's widely believed that every algebraic structure arising in problems like this are essentially the same mathematical object (automorphic forms) viewed in different ways (see here). No one has any good idea on how to prove this, but if it's done, Millennium problems like the Riemann hypothesis and the Birch and Swinnenton-Dyer conjecture will all be simple exercises in that theory! That's how complicated that subject is, if you understand it, you basically solved 21st century math!
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
By the way, if we allowed negative integers as part of our solution, (11, 4, -1) would be a solution. More information about x/(y+z) + y/(x+z) + z/(x+y) = 4 on Quora: https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-find-the-positive-integer-solutions-to-frac-x-y+z-+-frac-y-z+x-+-frac-z-x+y-4 ---- Regarding p4wn3r's latest problem, I also found the Wikipedia page on Newton's identities from a related question on Quora. Using that, you can easily find p4wn3r's identity:
p4wn3r wrote:
(a+b+c)⁴ = 6(a⁴+b⁴+c⁴) - 8(a³+b³+c³)(a+b+c) + 6(a²+b²+c²)(a+b+c)² - 3(a²+b²+c²)²
It can also be done for higher powers as well.
HHS
Active player (286)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
The answer to Patashu's brother's puzzle is (X+1)(X+2)/2. Proof: (1) If there exists a hero who can not be countered by another hero whom he can not also counter, the villain wins. (2) The villain can always reduce the number of heroes who can counter any chosen hero by at least 1, by copying someone who can counter another hero who can counter that hero, who according to (1) must exist. (3) Therefore, with X rounds remaining, each hero must be able to be countered by X other heroes, none of which can be countered by that hero or by any common hero. (4) That means each hero must be part of X transitive cycles of 3 or more heroes each. (5) No two heroes can be part of more than one cycle of 3 heroes, otherwise one of them can be countered by multiple heroes who have a hero in common who can counter them, which contradicts (3). (6) Starting from a minimal solution for X rounds of size (X+1)(X+2)/2, we can therefore construct a solution for X+1 rounds by introducing X+2 additional heroes and linking each existing hero with an unique pair, with the lower numbered hero being able to counter the higher numbered hero. No solution can be constructed with fewer than X+2 additional heroes. Example for X=3:
  ABCDEFGHIJ
A  x x  x
B   xx  x
C x   x  x
D     xxx
E x    x x
F  xx     x
G        xxx
H x       xx
I  xx      x
J    xxx
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
Nice work! Here's a followup to make the puzzle harder: --- In addition to the Dark Mirror, the Cheese Shogun has a second artifact called the Wheel of Fortune. After seeing the hero composition and before using Dark Mirror charges, the villain may set the Wheel of Fortune to any value of M. Then, EVERY cycle of counters of length M has ALL the counters that makes it up eliminated. For example if he picks M = 3 and A counters B counters C counters A, those three counters are eliminated. And to be clear: 1) If two cycles of M length share a counter and/or hero in common, both would be eliminated. That is, he doesn't have to pick and destroy cycles one by one - all cycles are detected and eliminated. 2) You can't name M = 7 and destroy a structure like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314739291408564234/569291882174087194/unknown.png A cycle of length M has M unique heroes and M unique edges that exactly leads back to the first hero chosen in an unbroken loop of counters. (Also, I don't know if it ever helps, but you can have two heroes counter each other if you want. And the Cheese Shogun can choose an invalid M and destroy no cycles, if he wants to.) --- For example, if X = 1, one way to defeat the Cheese Shogun is to send 12 heroes like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314739291408564234/569290176187334657/unknown.png If he picks M = 3, everyone is still in a cycle of 4: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314739291408564234/569290465547911386/unknown.png If he picks M = 4, everyone is still in a cycle of 3: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/314739291408564234/569290815290081305/unknown.png --- 1) What is the solution for X Dark Mirror charges if he can use the Wheel of Fortune once? 2) What is the solution for X Dark Mirror charges if he can use the Wheel of Fortune X times?
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
HHS
Active player (286)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
After thinking about it, I just realized that my previous answer is wrong, it has diamonds in it. Got to think about it some more...
Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100
HHS wrote:
After thinking about it, I just realized that my previous answer is wrong, it has diamonds in it. Got to think about it some more...
Your minimum amount of heroes for each round (N = 1+ x + x(x+1)/2) is the same as mine, but that is with the assumtion the hero-counter-relation-construction is possible. However, this is not the case. For X=2, it is simply impossible to construct the counter-relations with N=6.* N=8 works though (a>b>c>d>e>f>g>h>a; a>c>g>a; b>e>h>d>f>b). I don't know about N=7, but I can't find a solution. *The six heroes are a, b, c, d, e, f. A counters two, it doesn't matter which: a>b & a>c. Because if a is copied, only d, e and f survive, d, e and f must form a counter-triangle: d>e>f>d. It could be the other way round, but it doesn't matter. Two of these must counter a as well, it does not matter which: d>a & e>a. Because e counters a and f, the remaining three must form a counter-circle: b>c>d>b or b<c<d<b. However, d already counters two other heroes, and cannot counter either b or c. Therefore, six heroes is not enough.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
My hobby: coming up with useless series that converge to pi! :D I will name this one the trinity series because it has lots of 3's, and also the number 4 can be explained because according to alchemy the world has four elements! Prove that:
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631
A direct computer search yielded several solutions for the dark mirror problem using 7 heroes with 2 charges. One such solution is: a -> b, a -> c, a -> d, e -> a, f -> a, b -> c, d -> b, b -> e, c -> d, c -> f, d -> g, f -> e, e -> g, g -> f This solution does not decompose into independent loops well. Notably, node a has three outgoing edges, and node g only has one. A search with the stipulation that out going edges were limited only to two failed to quickly find solutions. I'll have to leave it running longer to determine if any solutions are more symmetric.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
p4wn3r wrote:
Prove that:
First, note the triple angle identity which we can rewrite as Using the identity on itself multiple times, we get As k goes to infinity, we get The left hand side is of the form theta*sin(x)/x (where x=theta/3k) as x goes to 0, for which the limit is theta. Then plugging in theta=pi gives and dividing by 4 gives you the identity you posted.
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Correct! Now, the next one: Prove or disprove: Let a, b, c be real numbers. Suppose that l is a real number satisfying l > max(|a-b|,|b-c|,|c-a|) and l < min(a+b,b+c,c+a), so that it's possible to form a triangle having one of the sides measuring l, and any two numbers from a, b and c. Then, in these conditions, it's always possible to construct a triangular pyramid having an equilateral triangle of side l as basis, and having a, b and c as the lengths of the remaining edges. If false, try to come up with a condition that allows the pyramid with equilateral basis to be constructed.
Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100
Some quick constructionwork with paper and scissors suggests it will work. The bounds for choosing a, b, c, and l are literally that the triangles abl, bcl, and acl exist. Obviously, triangle lll exists also. 1) So, we choose lll as base. 2) We place abl at one of the three sides (angle to be determined). 3) Then, we place acl so that its edge a borders edge a of abl (the angles are locked now). This is always possible, but what the angles are between the base and the sides is dependent on the lengths chosen. 4) We now have a triangular pyramid with one side open. This triangle is defined by three edges, l at the bottom, and b and c at the sides. This triangle lbc exists, since that was a requirement in choosing a, b, c, and l. The point of the pyramid may not be above the base though, so if filled with a homogenous substance it may fall over.