Posted: 7/25/2019 11:59 PM
Post subject: Would a cloud emulator running a copyrighted ROM be legal?
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
This is a thought that occurred to me recently. Computing is very rapidly transitioning to a state where we don't install software in our hardware, and instead interact with software running server-side in the cloud. This transition is already starting to happen in games, with Google announcing their Stadia platform where all the hard processing is done in their servers and the client device only has to send the player input to the cloud and play the streaming video. Given that many of the games that we are interested in this site were released during the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s, it's unlikely that their developers considered the possibility that their games could be played over the cloud. So, in theory, say, a NES emulator on the cloud, where the user just picks a game code, and runs a copy of the ROM server side and only sends to a browser the information needed for the PPU to draw could arguably be legal, since the copyright would only be violated if the ROM itself would be transmitted over the network, which never happens in this case. This interpretation does have its precedent in the open source community, for example. If an open source software is licensed under the GPL, then any modifications to it must also be released under the GPL. However, if you modify the software and only expose an API of it that runs inside your server you don't have to disclose the modifications under the GPL, because as long as the GPL is concerned, running something in your server and letting people access it does not count as distributing the software, while putting the binary for download does. If the developer intends to block people from running their modified code on the cloud, they should choose the AGPL, a more restrictive license. Of course, copyright holders with lots of cash could find other reasons to take down something like this, and doing what I am proposing would surely net you a lawsuit from some developer, but what does everyone think? Of course, the infrastructure costs of doing something like this would be orders of magnitude larger than a forum+wiki website, but is a project like this worth the risk to free the legacy games?
Posted: 7/28/2019 7:06 PM
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JosJuice
She/They
Editor, Emulator Coder
Joined: 7/3/2010
Posts: 193
Location: Sweden
I wonder if that would count as performing/displaying a copyrighted work in public... In that case, I believe you would need permission from the copyright holder.
Posted: 8/9/2019 9:08 PM
(Edited: 7/26/2021 7:58 PM)
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MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1918)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
NES TASer of 2013 NES TAS of 2013 NES TAS of 2012 NES TAS of 2011
AFAIK there is one and only, totally legal service similar but not exactly like this: Console Classix. 2018 news article with more details about legality: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/can-a-digital-lending-library-solve-classic-gamings-piracy-problem/ edit: just sharing some notes and experiences - Console Classix comes with a modified emulator. - When you select the game, you download the ROM from their server. - Doesn't seem to be encrypted. ROM is present in memory (no file is being made) The sad truth is that licensee of video games (usually the publisher, the developers and/or someone else with sharing it up for a given percentage) wants profit. They don't get money from people playing these and they don't really seem to catch the original customers, the players wishes... I would really love a service like Gefore Now, where you can verify your purchases of supported games and play it through streaming, running on a cloud computer. There is no ROM sharing. The service also grants security to the titles, in case someone would try to make an illegal copy of the game running.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Posted: 7/26/2021 7:53 PM
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MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1918)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
NES TASer of 2013 NES TAS of 2013 NES TAS of 2012 NES TAS of 2011
I had a lengthy chat with moozoh and he pointed out that I made mistakes about what should be called legal or should be classified as legal. Console Classix seems to be using a loophole in a sense that while this particular type of service is not illegal by the law in most countries, it is definitely consists of the ability to play games you don't own. It doesn't have ROMs available to download and you can't share them. From their site: We operate as any other rental service and own copies of each game we allow our customers to play. On the surface this is like going to a friend who has a lot of games where you can play on your own. However there is paid service which allows to play an even bigger selection of games. Nintendo and other companies don't try to legally battle them (going to a court where the judges will act according to the law) because they might not win (examples in general: the relevant laws in South Carolina where they are based didn't changed since and they are waiting; the said service doesn't generates enough profit to spend money for the justice system required to start the legal battle;) so they try to threaten or just come to a deal outside of the court. I've found a few books regarding this topic, but I need to verify their copyright status before linking it here. I'm going to edit my previous note, mostly striking out some words that doesn't reflects the truth.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...