BurgerTime

BurgerTime is a port of a 1982 arcade game developed by Data East. In this game you control Peter Pepper and try to walk over the burger ingredients to make burgers in each of 6 stages while avoiding the clutches of your enemies.

Time-lapse encode

This run is very long and a large chunk of it is repetitive. as such I don't really expect people to be interested in sitting through the full thing at normal speed.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: Bizhawk 2.3.2
  • Reach the kill screen

About the Goal

It can be a bit difficult to figure out the end goal for some of the arcade style games, but unlike some other arcade ports on the NES BurgerTime has a kill screen. As you might expect the stage counter is a single byte, and with how the kill screen works this results in the game having 256 stages. with 6 basic stages this means we will be playing through 42 full loops plus 4 more stages.
The difficulty level slowly increases until you get to the 5th loop. I don't fully understand the enemy AI, but it is clear that there is a base speed which has 3 possible values. The slowest speed is used for stages 1-11, middle for 12-23, and the highest for 24-255. When the stage counter wraps to 0 it is back to the slowest speed for the last level.
As for the kill screen it looks like your starting position is based on the stage number, but the stages just increment and don't refer to the stage number. When the stage number wraps to 0 things go a tiny bit glitchy, but it is still a functional "stage 4". When it wraps back to 1 however you are on to a "stage 5", but you are spawned in the starting position for stage 1. On stage 5 this is a black area off the stage, you can turn, but you can't move and the enemies can't get to you. You are soft-locked.

Controls

  • D-PAD - move up, down, left, or right
  • A, B - use pepper
  • select - select 1 or 2 players
  • start - pause

Strategies

If you walk across the top bun any ingredients it falls on will cascade downward. You still have to get the top bun all the way to the bottom, so the top bun is the only one worth focusing on, the other ingredients will fall into place.
If you walk across a bun it will fall 1 level. If you trap an enemy on a bun it will fall 3 levels. If you trap 2 enemies on a bun it will fall 5 levels. Trapping enemies, and often even using pepper to do so can be useful strategies.

Tricks

I discovered (too long into making this tas causing me to start over) that because of how the ladder animation works it is possible to traverse ladders quickly. The animation was written so that you initially move up (for example) several pixels, then holding up references a table that lists how many pixels to move. There are negative values in the table though, so you end up with a nice ladder climb stutter step. If you let go of up it resets the index though, so you can climb ladders very quickly by tapping up and always moving up with the highest value.
General movement is a bit confusing (even to me), but effectively there is a cool-down of sorts (at 0x43F), so only certain frames allow movement. Generally (but not always I've found) inputs during the cool-down have no effect. The movement in this run, especially in the X direction looks pretty jerky because my movement script made use of the cool-down information.
Ladder boosting: I found that in both the X and Y direction you could skip the cool-down at most intersections by changing directions. Intersections have 2 pixels of margin on each side, meaning if you approach a ladder and stop 2 pixels short an up input will snap you to the ladder. This gives us a tiny boost at most intersections since you can tap up for 1 frame to snap in the direction you're going, but then go back to pressing forward. By "changing" directions you skip some cool-down time.
Skewed hitboxes: the buns look like they're centered, but if you pay attention to the X coordinates they are definitely skewed to the left (starting at say 0x26 and going to 0x38 for example). This has a couple of implications. First if you are walking right across a bun and an enemy is walking at you there is time for you to walk right and trap the enemy on the very edge. The opposite is not true though. Heading left you will drop the bun before the enemy is on it, or the enemy will kill you before you get all the way across. Additionally if the bun is lined up on a ladder and an enemy is coming up or down that ladder there is space for you to stand on the left side, but not drop the bun until the enemy is on it. This does not work on the shorter right side.

Lag

There is quite a bit of lag in this game, and I'm not sure there is much I can do to manipulate it. I was afraid I wasn't going to be able to copy the inputs forward from the 5th (hardest) loop, but it turned out I basically could with some exceptions. There were a few places as well as screen transitions where lag differences resulted in inserting or deleting a couple of frames here or there. When I got close to 1M points the extra life calculation seemed to break and start awarding extra lives every time the score changed, each time costing 2 lag frames. After 1M points the first time around I had to re-adjust the whole loop, updating both the player score and the high score takes more time. Since the high score sticks at a high value when the score wraps it means subsequent score updates cost fewer frames than they had back on the 5th loop.

Improvements

I did spend quite a bit of time trying different strategies to find quick ways to finish levels, but my search was by no means exhaustive. Improved routing could result in a faster time, especially if it was in the 5th loop since it would be multiplied by nearly 40.
I'm not sure much could be done about the lag, but with such a laggy game it is hard to rule out as a source of improvements.

Thanks to:

  • my Twitch chat for the ideas and encouragement
  • The TASMania team

Screenshots:

48, 366888, 523731, 526742

Memory: Judging
Memory: Updating with trimmed file
Memory: The movie seems to be optimized.
The choice of aiming for kill screen was brought up in the thread as while our rules do prefer the furthest possible definition of completion for endless games, it significantly hurt entertainment aspects. This is still acceptable so there's only one place for it to go.
Accepting to Vault.
Spikestuff: Publishing.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15628
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6546: link_7777's NES BurgerTime in 2:25:53.45
Banned User
Joined: 8/2/2017
Posts: 89
Location: Brazil
Interesting TAS, Yes vote.
Cuphead TASes desyncs unfortunately.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2656)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6449
Location: The land down under.
So if we want to stop watching we stop at Stage 30... but if we want to see a game die we have to wait for 256... fair trade... After watching an hour, I'm going to vote with Meh. I can't truck through the same repetitiveness especially when I'm voting Meh. As for a note about max loop, it would've been a Meh Vote anyways.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
CoolHandMike
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Experienced player (897)
Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 729
This is a bit too long with the same stuff. Maybe if it massively shorter I could watch more... Meh
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
GJTASer2018
He/Him
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 309
Location: Stafford, NY
Very very Meh, very very Vault material. That's what I think of it. You didn't mention why you chose the NES port though link_7777, as there were a few different reasonable choices for this game, some with different mechanics than the NES port: * Arcade original (it was long thought that this had a killscreen but this isn't actually true) * The very good Colecovision port (playable in BizHawk) * The very good Intellivision port (also playable in BizHawk) The only port that should be avoided is the Atari 2600 version (mostly because of the god-awful graphics it had!)
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
Experienced player (878)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
GJTASer2018 wrote:
Very very Meh, very very Vault material. That's what I think of it. You didn't mention why you chose the NES port though link_7777, as there were a few different reasonable choices for this game, some with different mechanics than the NES port: * Arcade original (it was long thought that this had a killscreen but this isn't actually true) * The very good Colecovision port (playable in BizHawk) * The very good Intellivision port (also playable in BizHawk) The only port that should be avoided is the Atari 2600 version (mostly because of the god-awful graphics it had!)
The short answer is TASMania. I'm focusing on licensed NES games that don't have a published TAS. See https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14mIIGHU4hzK1atRsVgMtwc8hNkUc2Ty48loCNj8O9Bc/edit?usp=sharing
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
If I understand correctly, there is no new content after stage 29. So wouldn't that be a suitable endpoint for the TAS, per our movie rules?
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2656)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6449
Location: The land down under.
Radiant wrote:
If I understand correctly, there is no new content after stage 29. So wouldn't that be a suitable endpoint for the TAS, per our movie rules?
Yes, I don't believe we actually have a TAS (well besides this one) that actually ends on a kill screen. If a Judge sees fit and if link_7777 agrees it might turn into a case where this movie can be truncated to the ending loop if going for kill screen serves as an "issue". Anyone can correct me on this one (especially if the rules changed).
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Experienced player (878)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
Spikestuff wrote:
Radiant wrote:
If I understand correctly, there is no new content after stage 29. So wouldn't that be a suitable endpoint for the TAS, per our movie rules?
Yes, I don't believe we actually have a TAS (well besides this one) that actually ends on a kill screen. If a Judge sees fit and if link_7777 agrees it might turn into a case where this movie can be truncated to the ending loop if going for kill screen serves as an "issue". Anyone can correct me on this one (especially if the rules changed).
On the movie rules page under Games without a clear ending the "kill screen" bullet is above the "no new content" bullet
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2255)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
This is a game I played a lot, in the 80's...mostly on Coleco. Even today, my wife and I still love playing this. I had to think about this a bit, but I can't really see any optimization problems here. One thing that I thought was an issue was not waiting for some of the enemies to allow the burger parts to fall more than one floor. After I thought about it, the technique would probably have put those enemies right in your path...preventing you from continuing quickly, once they got unstuck from the food that they fell with. This brings back memories and seems to be done well. Yes vote! :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1558)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1767
Location: Dumpster
link_7777 wrote:
Spikestuff wrote:
Radiant wrote:
If I understand correctly, there is no new content after stage 29. So wouldn't that be a suitable endpoint for the TAS, per our movie rules?
Yes, I don't believe we actually have a TAS (well besides this one) that actually ends on a kill screen. If a Judge sees fit and if link_7777 agrees it might turn into a case where this movie can be truncated to the ending loop if going for kill screen serves as an "issue". Anyone can correct me on this one (especially if the rules changed).
On the movie rules page under Games without a clear ending the "kill screen" bullet is above the "no new content" bullet
I do not believe suitable end points for games without clear endings are listed in any particular order. EDIT: It was pointed out to me that the Judge guidelines suggest asking the author to play more if they chose an earlier point in the list. I'm not sure this is necessarily the best course of action if a later point features nearly identical play.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Experienced player (878)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
Memory wrote:
link_7777 wrote:
Spikestuff wrote:
Radiant wrote:
If I understand correctly, there is no new content after stage 29. So wouldn't that be a suitable endpoint for the TAS, per our movie rules?
Yes, I don't believe we actually have a TAS (well besides this one) that actually ends on a kill screen. If a Judge sees fit and if link_7777 agrees it might turn into a case where this movie can be truncated to the ending loop if going for kill screen serves as an "issue". Anyone can correct me on this one (especially if the rules changed).
On the movie rules page under Games without a clear ending the "kill screen" bullet is above the "no new content" bullet
I do not believe suitable end points for games without clear endings are listed in any particular order. EDIT: It was pointed out to me that the Judge guidelines suggest asking the author to play more if they chose an earlier point in the list. I'm not sure this is necessarily the best course of action if a later point features nearly identical play.
I suppose if order were really intended it would be a numbered list and not a bulleted list. I think you could make a case for ending this movie at the end of the 5th loop. I would argue that even though the kill screen isn't particularly spectacular the graphical errors on stage 256 and the kill screen itself constitute content that would be missing from a 5 loop movie. Admittedly a large chunk of this movie features nearly identical play, but I don't feel like that is a good excuse for cutting out the kill screen (or stage 256 which is unique).
GJTASer2018
He/Him
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 309
Location: Stafford, NY
link_7777 wrote:
I suppose if order were really intended it would be a numbered list and not a bulleted list.
If I'm reading things correctly, the bullet points are arranged in such a way as to emphasize the policy of "no significant new content at all to be discovered" first and foremost. If that's true, then the bullets should indeed be numbered. Does a killscreen count as "significant new content"? I would say yes, minor though it might be, and that the run should go that killscreen. Entertainment won't matter much (if at all) in this case because the submission can just be put in the Vault - that's what it's there for. :)
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
Experienced player (878)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
GJTASer2018 wrote:
link_7777 wrote:
I suppose if order were really intended it would be a numbered list and not a bulleted list.
If I'm reading things correctly, the bullet points are arranged in such a way as to emphasize the policy of "no significant new content at all to be discovered" first and foremost. If that's true, then the bullets should indeed be numbered. Does a killscreen count as "significant new content"? I would say yes, minor though it might be, and that the run should go that killscreen. Entertainment won't matter much (if at all) in this case because the submission can just be put in the Vault - that's what it's there for. :)
I would agree that the kill screen alone counts as new content. There is more than that though, stage 256 (the one before the kill screen) has a couple of graphical issues, but also the enemies are back to the slowest speed. The stage number is used to set the enemy AI, and since the stage number has wrapped around to 0 the enemies are slow again
Ford
He/Him
Joined: 3/5/2013
Posts: 183
Location: California
I'm going to go with No on this one, based on the facts that this goes to stage 256 instead of stopping once it finishes one loop of the hardest difficulty, and that the author mentioned discovering a method of climbing ladders faster, but did not implement it for this run. As this is a 2-hour video, I understand the rationale for the latter, but stopping upon finishing one loop in the hardest difficulty would've dropped it down to about 15 or 20 minutes.
Experienced player (878)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
Ford wrote:
I'm going to go with No on this one, based on the facts that this goes to stage 256 instead of stopping once it finishes one loop of the hardest difficulty, and that the author mentioned discovering a method of climbing ladders faster, but did not implement it for this run. As this is a 2-hour video, I understand the rationale for the latter, but stopping upon finishing one loop in the hardest difficulty would've dropped it down to about 15 or 20 minutes.
I complained about the fast ladder climbing because of how much time I had put into the run before I discovered them, but I did start over and the run I submitted includes the fast ladder climbing
Active player (316)
Joined: 3/15/2018
Posts: 235
Location: United States
link_7777 wrote:
Ford wrote:
I'm going to go with No on this one, based on the facts that this goes to stage 256 instead of stopping once it finishes one loop of the hardest difficulty, and that the author mentioned discovering a method of climbing ladders faster, but did not implement it for this run. As this is a 2-hour video, I understand the rationale for the latter, but stopping upon finishing one loop in the hardest difficulty would've dropped it down to about 15 or 20 minutes.
I complained about the fast ladder climbing because of how much time I had put into the run before I discovered them, but I did start over and the run I submitted includes the fast ladder climbing
If you want to see the slow ladder climbing, I made a quickie TAS of the first stage a couple months ago. Seems to be about 5 seconds slower than your first stage, link_777. Even though I used 3 peppers...
Experienced player (878)
Joined: 11/15/2010
Posts: 267
warmCabin wrote:
link_7777 wrote:
Ford wrote:
I'm going to go with No on this one, based on the facts that this goes to stage 256 instead of stopping once it finishes one loop of the hardest difficulty, and that the author mentioned discovering a method of climbing ladders faster, but did not implement it for this run. As this is a 2-hour video, I understand the rationale for the latter, but stopping upon finishing one loop in the hardest difficulty would've dropped it down to about 15 or 20 minutes.
I complained about the fast ladder climbing because of how much time I had put into the run before I discovered them, but I did start over and the run I submitted includes the fast ladder climbing
If you want to see the slow ladder climbing, I made a quickie TAS of the first stage a couple months ago. Seems to be about 5 seconds slower than your first stage, link_777. Even though I used 3 peppers...
I'm not sure how that compares to the strat I had before fast ladders, but it is possible to beat the first sausage to the top left him at the start, even without the fast ladders. I'm guessing it makes for a faster start to do so, but obviously the fast ladders still make a huge difference
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15628
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4094] NES BurgerTime by link_7777 in 2:25:53.45