Post by XTREMAL93

Posted: 6/24/2012 9:43 AM

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MESHUGGAH

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Skilled player (1890)

Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯

feos wrote:

MESHUGGAH: Did you find out the exact RNG work here? Sounds like it's similar to Toads. Switches in time by some value and input advances it even further. I guess there are at least 2 addresses containing the RNG that rules enemies spawn and behaviour and some other things.

As far as I know there's only 1 RNG at 0x0012 which is called multiple times (more than 100 times within a frame). The RNG is used to change the color and behaviour of the pibbles (where they fall). The possibilities are limited (in terms of different situations of pibbles for color and "movement"). Enemy spawns are snake and cam position dependent, the RNG doesn't works there. I don't need to know the correct formula for the RNG since I can easily test out all possibilities immediately.

Aglar wrote:

...Especially if you actually need to focus more on the lag itself than the (non-lag) gameplay....

Yes, I wouldn't be able to do this TAS without TASEditor since the lag madness. There are many things I have to be aware -Skipping water entirely (even spitting out nibbles remainings into the water makes huge lag, check out the beginning of L2 bottom right corner) -Avoiding killing enemies while the screen is scrolling (if the camera has more than 0 speed the game will lag heavily) -Avoiding holding buttons all the time (less buttons, less lag) -Manipulating the nibbles and their movement (yes, they also reduce lag frames) -Different enemies have different lag properties, not mentioning multiple enemies on screen... Level 1 rocket is "non-lag frame" dependent. It needs 1324-41 (1283) non-lag frames to fly off the screen so I avoid being warped. My latest posted run already uses every tricks I know.

PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...

Posted: 6/24/2012 10:22 AM

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AnS

Emulator Coder, Experienced player (723)

Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682

feos wrote:

If you emulated a segment, then changing the input you cut the greenzone, it counts as one rerecord.

The point is: its behaviour is inherently the same as in old emulators. Outside TASEditor: the rerecord counter increments every time you edit something you have watched. It doesn't increment when you blindly append the movie by recording Input without knowing the future. But it does when you return back and edit the movie by rerecording Input for frames you've seen. In TASEditor: the rerecord counter increments every time you edit something you have emulated/Greenzoned. It doesn't increment when you blindly change the movie by editing Input on whitish rows of Piano Roll. But it does when you move mouse cursor up to previously verified part of the movie and edit it.

feos wrote:

Loading a branch is also one.

Only when the branching changes the Input in Greenzoned part of the movie. If you repeatedly tap the same "load state" key, for the first time it will increment the rerecord counter, but for other times the Input won't be changed, thus the rerecord counter won't increase.

Posted: 7/19/2014 6:52 PM

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PJ

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Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 181
Location: Western NY

I started playing this game yesterday and I found a pretty weird....bug? Hitbox exploit? I'm not really sure what it is. I'm hoping someone here can help with it because it can potentially save a lot of time. You can kind of float/hover on the corner between a spike tile and a wall, but only on the left side of a spike. You have to move pure vertical (so left+up) into the very upper corner of the spike. It won't work on the right side corner for some reason. While in the hover, you can hold left and push against the wall briefly before falling, or you can move off the spike with down and save your life. Anything else kills you, including just releasing left+up. I haven't found a way to jump off the spike corner while in this state. Example video below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKBLJuC2SqE You can probably imagine where I'm going with this. If the spike hover can be done in a spike-spike corner instead of just a spike-wall corner, we can skip a pool in stage 8: http://imgur.com/45SAzQg (circle is the target spike hover location). I can't generate enough momentum from the upper spike hover to clear the red spikes, so I think it'd have to be done this way. Similarly, if there is a way to jump out of a spike hover, we can skip one of the lower pools. It might be able to be used elsewhere in that case, too. I have so far been unsuccessful in doing either of these things, but I was trying in real time. Hopefully someone can look into this and confirm how this works. Thanks! Edit: Uploaded the movie file to make testing easier: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1487153618/Spike%20hover.fm2

Posted: 12/9/2015 7:10 PM

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Alyosha

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Editor, Expert player (3536)

Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US

After having MESHUGGAH's WIP in my hands for the entire year I finally have gotten around to starting work on it. MESHUGGAH played levels 1 and 2 and I have no plan to touch them. I have now done level 3 and saved about 50 frames with a different route involving manipulating a yellow pellet from the shooter things. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27418817840952253 It took me a while to figure this game out but now I think I have a decent grasp of what to do, so I hope to make decent progress.

Posted: 12/10/2015 3:58 PM

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Alyosha

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Editor, Expert player (3536)

Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27438050487102963 I got a much better manipulation in level 3 and am now ~90 frames ahead of Nitsuja's attempt. I also added in the missed shortcut in level 4 which saved a few seconds. But now I am stuck in level 5 at the jump off the flying carpet. In the current run Nitsuja waits an entire cycle to jump up to complete the level, but in Aglar's one player run he is able to jump right up. In my attempts I am always 1 height unit too low to clip up onto the ledge, and am not sure how to get another unit of height. Since this will be a pretty big time saver I will try for a while to see if I can get it before moving on. EDIT: The current run is 352 frames ahead of Nitsuja's run at the start of level 5. EDIT: Got the jump. Not sure entirely how but jumping or not jumping at previous points in the level seems to impact it. 718 frames ahead at the start of level 6.

Posted: 12/10/2015 7:08 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11274
Location: RU

Alyosha wrote:

Got the jump. Not sure entirely how but jumping or not jumping at previous points in the level seems to impact it. 718 frames ahead at the start of level 6.

Subpixels?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/11/2015 11:18 PM

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Alyosha

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Editor, Expert player (3536)

Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US

^ Not sure, I didn't look through the code to determine how it works. Getting it working was enough for me. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27467007092971882 Ok, level 6 couldn't be improved much because both important factors are timing based, namely the enemy to bounce on and waiting for the scuba power up. The scuba power up gets shot out every 8th shot, so there really is nothing to do to speed it up, which is unfortunate. Level 7 is now ~150 frames ahead following Aglar's route up the geysers (which was very troublesome to reproduce with both snakes.) Anyway moving on to level 8 and 905 frames ahead. Levels 8-10 are about half the movie so I'd say there a chance of finishing under 7 minutes. I also tried investigating PJ's floating above the spikes trick, but so far nothing. Even if you get off the spikes, I suspect the game doesn't think you have 'landed' yet, so you would still die from fall damage, but I can't yet get past the spikes to see.

Posted: 12/13/2015 1:23 AM

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Alyosha

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Editor, Expert player (3536)

Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27491139845120584 Got some good manipulation in level 8. Not sure how much better is theoretically possible, but I think its pretty close, and is almost 11 seconds ahead of Nitsuja in that level. I am now ~1550 frames ahead overall, aiming for sub 7. But I noticed at the start of level 8 Nitsuja's run desyncs in both FCEUX 2.2.2 and FCEU 98.15. I have a different ROM then the published run, so I'll need to make sure I don't have a bad ROM before continuing to level 9. Should be done fairly soon though. Also I am back ahead of the one plaer run by quite a bit now too after falling behind waiting for the scuba powerup. Now 474 frames ahead at the start of level 9. EDIT: well if I have any idea what I am doing I seem to have a proper rom, and according to stiltzkin on the previous page the ROM used in the published run is a bad dump. Aglar's run also uses this ROM but it syncs properly for whatever reason.

Posted: 12/13/2015 11:27 PM

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Alyosha

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Editor, Expert player (3536)

Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2732
Location: US

http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/27511624942686207 finally made it to the end! Currently 2048 frames ahead. Level 10 needs some work still and I still need to work on the last boss a bit, but this is pretty close to final. If anyone has any ideas for entertaining stuff to see at the end of the game there are about 7 seconds of down time. I could end input early by just standing next to the spaceship, but that would be too boring even for me, so I'll stick with convention as ending input on the last frame input is accepted before boarding the spaceship.

Posted: 12/17/2015 3:54 PM

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scaryice

Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74

Ending input early is the best choice. A faster run is more entertaining to me than a few seconds of jumping around.

Posted: 3/24/2020 5:02 PM
(Edited: 10/11/2020 8:57 AM)

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XTREMAL93

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Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 579
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku

RT speedrun with warps 05:37 . We need TAS with warps too https://www.twitch.tv/videos/434020144 EDIT Actually there is TAS with warps, but without "warps" branch and marked like Obsoleted http://tasvideos.org/122M.html