Posted: 5/21/2020 8:06 PM
Post subject: Xbox source code has been leaked
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DemonStrate
Joined: 4/18/2006
Posts: 179
Location: East Petersburg, PA
I thought this would be great for those working on Xbox emulation: https://www.engadget.com/xbox-os-windows-source-code-leak-142213929.html?bcmt=1 Would be nice to use this information for something like BizHawk or some other emulator. I'd assume it would be a lot of work, but having that information seems extremely valuable.
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Posted: 5/21/2020 8:08 PM
Post subject: Re: Xbox source code has been leaked
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CasualPokePlayer
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (729)
Joined: 2/26/2020
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DemonStrate wrote:
I thought this would be great for those working on Xbox emulation: https://www.engadget.com/xbox-os-windows-source-code-leak-142213929.html?bcmt=1 Would be nice to use this information for something like BizHawk or some other emulator. I'd assume it would be a lot of work, but having that information seems extremely valuable.
FBI says nope. Yeah emu devs can't use this at all, everything has to be clean room RE work. Even looking at the code and having some idea for emulation from that code would be illegal.
Posted: 5/21/2020 8:26 PM
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Spikestuff
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Much like the N64, GameCube and Wii leak you can't actually use the code otherwise sued or DMCA'd. (Like how people speculated the WiiU emulator CEMU is based on the leaked code, but is keeping out thanks to being closed sourced no one knows) Like JosJuice a Dolphin developer has said on the Nintendo leak. Even when making it "sanitized".
It's still illegal. Maybe it is possible to disguise the fact that leaked information was used, but do you know what is a much more solid strategy than sanitizing data and hope nobody catches on to the fact? Not doing anything illegal in the first place.
The code's not worth it.
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Posted: 5/21/2020 8:51 PM
Post subject: Re: Xbox source code has been leaked
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
Even looking at the code and having some idea for emulation from that code would be illegal.
Actually no, that's not how copyright works. It doesn't protect ideas—only implementations thereof. Moreover, if there is only one reasonable way some solution can be implemented, it may not even be eligible for protection. This is just to illustrate that the copyright is not quite as powerful as it often appears due to the constant bullying by the likes of Nintendo. It is true that the implementation has to be built from the ground up rather than copied and sanitized, but it doesn't mean the leaked code cannot be used as a reference material. In this respect it's no different from developer datasheets or hardware reverse-engineering (decapped ROM chips, etc.) used in emulation development since the 90s. Those are also subject to copyright; never stopped anyone.
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Posted: 5/21/2020 9:17 PM
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Pokota
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You'd need to be more worried about patent rights, anyway
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Posted: 5/21/2020 10:04 PM
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moozooh
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Source code leaks rarely affect patent right application in any capacity since patents protect technical solutions and never the code itself. With said solutions documented and made publicly available as part of the patenting process, it "leaks" them automatically. But for the record, here is a list of patents that may be relevant to the Xbox. Note that the ones from the 90s have already expired.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 5/22/2020 2:22 PM
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BadPotato
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
Well, I'm a bit surprised by this, how did the code was leaked online? I guess MS can't simply open-source their early version of their system(such as Windows NT 3.5) over security concern with some of their oldest contractor... so there could be shenanigan some going on? How can we be 100% sure the piece of source code is from the actual implementation and not some fake source code generated by a bot? Well at least, while it's a bit early to claim a bot being able to produce this kind of code, but it may hold up in a few years... Does the source code produce a way to build the actual binary to compare against a rom? If there's no real evidence yet about the correlation between the binary and source code, well a bout it? Did Microsoft claimed themselves they own this piece of source code, on what base? Further more, projects like Wine/ReactOS may get so close in term of precision of actual development over the years, at least some part of their project would be 100% identical, at this point would they get sued?
Posted: 5/22/2020 5:04 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
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It's entirely possible for emulator devs to have two teams: 1. A clean team that actually writes the implementation. 2. A dirty team that generates a detailed requirements document using the leaked source. As long as you have a clear separation, and little to no communication between the teams other than the various revisions of the requirements document, then you should be in the clear as far as copyright is concerned.
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Posted: 5/24/2020 3:07 PM
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phoenix1291
Joined: 7/17/2012
Posts: 543
Location: Switzerland
Well, it's not just the Xbox source code that's out there, apparently...
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