This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6785: ViGadeomes & Tomygood's NES The Smurfs in 08:10.65

MUGG has optimized the GB version already, but there's no mention of it here. Did you try all the tricks used in that to see if any are transferable? http://tasvideos.org/3556M.html

Yes I tried, but I wasn't able to reproduce the dragon glitch or the wrong warp of the first level. They seem very differents on many points. Thanks for pointing this out thought.

I couldn't find any kind of subpixel value, so it does seem to be as simple as the values at 0x37 and 0x41 for position, and 0x6B and 0x6F for speed. The speed values max out at 29, but at that max, you only move 2 pixels per frame while holding B (1 pixel if you let go of B). Here's a simple Lua script that displays x/y pos, speed, and x diff. https://pastebin.com/R8cLm8CK Some game info for judging: There's only two possible jump arcs. 11 frames after the jump, if you have A pressed, Y velocity will go from -3 to -2. If not holding A, it goes from -3 to -1, and the jump is much lower and shorter. This jump arc limitation, a lack of horizontal attacking, a lack of RNG to manipulate (I don't think there's any RNG elements at all), and very slow knockback does make it particularly hard to dodge everything while moving at 2px, so occasional slowdowns are necessary. Bouncing off an enemy, if holding A, does do the larger jump arc. I noticed that knockback is based on facing direction; but unfortunately, deceleration is quite slow, so it's not easy to suddenly switch facing direction at a whim. Standing on leftward or rightward moving platforms does affect pixels travelled, so avoid or maximize them as appropriate. Colliding with a vine instantly sets your xspeed to 0, so they are to be avoided. But once on a vine, horizontal speed accelerates as normal, so there's no penalty to staying on it for a bit. You can gain height quickly on them by alternating A and Up (4px per frame), which can help position jumps to go ABOVE the vines to avoid colliding with them, or other such things. But each time you reattach, your X speed will be reset again. I have a slightly improved movie here that I'd like to see if you can save any more time on (I'll try the future levels as well). On the first set of vines in The Swamp, I rode the spider to cut out some vine travel... and somehow barely managed to stand on the frog, as far left as I could, on the last frame before he disappears. I'd nearly given up on it. That cut out a large waiting time. Everything in these levels seems to be on global cycles, so it changed future jumps as well. In the end, I saved 69 frames in the Swamp. Nice. Taking a brief look at the following boss, I was able to get a faster first hit by holding Down on the vine to have a lower Y position already when falling off. (Up/Down travel on vines doesn't affect horizontal acceleration at all, so it's free.) This saved 3 frames on the first hit, and from there, he seems to do a fixed pattern that begins once you hit him. There was also a menuing improvement: A and B can be used on the in-between level screens, not just Start. This cut out a frame of waiting for Start to be pressable between each level (and the language selection), saving 10 frames. This game syncs flawlessly so here's a movie with the 82 saved frames up to Sarsapilla: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/64246536460779097 I was going to say you should check out any other areas with climbable objects for improvements since that's the mechanic where I saved time, but, there... is no more climbing? Welp.

Thanks for finding these ! Do you think you'll try to find any other improvements ? I'm waitting to see if Tomygood agrees with your improvements and don't find any other thanks to yours. I prepared a new movie file where i just removed useless inputs (I hate them sorry) while adding you as co-author in the header. When, tomy is good with it I'll add you as co-author and also giving you edit privilege on the submission text.

I'll look at the rest but I have doubts I'll find much more, the vine segments specifically stood out to me as having potential. I suppose the purposeful damage in the final level also catches my eye for being improvable. If I don't find anything else, I'm not sure it's worth co-authorship (compared to a mention in the level notes), but that's up to you. As far as tiering this run, the GB version is in Moons, but I find that version's movement feels much faster and more exciting than this version, but it may just be because of the shrunken screen. I find the boss fights quite exciting, as well as the spring-grabbing level, there's some insane platforming there. The game's overall quality is very high, and of course the music is outstanding. I don't mean to toot my own horn but it is by the same developers and composer; Baby Felix Halloween is the most comparable run I know of to this, aside from the GB Smurfs, and both are Moons, so if reception is generally positive, it probably should go there too.

I'll look at the rest but I have doubts I'll find much more, the vine segments specifically stood out to me as having potential. I suppose the purposeful damage in the final level also catches my eye for being improvable. If I don't find anything else, I'm not sure it's worth co-authorship (compared to a mention in the level notes), but that's up to you.

A contribution is sufficient for a co-authorship to me no matter the importance of it.

OK, I have an even more improved movie now. (I also removed the useless A inputs like you like on the swamps) I did have some pixels saved in the sarsparilla caves, but unfortunately, the spider cycle at the end couldn't be improved upon, so that walled any earlier improvement. I'll include those saves anyway. (I like to have the earlier parts as optimized as possible, even if a cycle nullifies it later) I saved one pixel at the very end of the ice level by jumping off a leftward bird one frame sooner, but it didn't save a frame. I managed to improve the dragon boss greatly using a different movement loop on the platforms. 91 frames saved and possibly more to squeeze out, especially on the first two hits before I get the loop going proper. His fire lighting up the platforms prevented the quicker strategy for the first hits. I got the bear+superjump with less leftward movement by bouncing on the bird first. This ended up saving only 1 frame because of the timer being at 76 now. (I have to commend you on saving time with that purposeful 75! Very nice strat!) The collision on bookshelfs and such, and the intended path throughout the final level, is far more annoying than I thought looking at it. There's only one resource I could see, the bomb present. Perhaps it could be used to defeat a black smurf and take a lower route, but there is no lower route to be had. But I did a Brainy Smurf move and thought, what's better than running into a plant and being knocked backwards just to run through it? Blowing myself up instead! This and other small optimizations (like having as low of height as possible when getting knocked back) saved 46 frames. All told, this is 220 frames faster than the submitted movie: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/64267330174736325 Now I've earned that co-authorship <3

That's amazing ! The Manor gift strat is really impressive ! You've done a really great job ^^

Watched the improved version, seems good. Yes vote

There it is an improvement mainly done by ThunderAxe31 with 26 frames and I saved 2 frames on Azrael : User movie #64415488346578664. ThunderAxe31 just wants a thanks that I already added to the submission text.

Very cool! I was thinking a weakness of the cat boss might be the poor rightward position we're at on the last hit, was that where the improvement came from?

Most of the improvement I found comes from level 4, I saved 23 frames there, at 2:54 in the encode. I found a positioning that allowed to go through without having to stop. I decided to not be added to the authors list because my improvements were little and I happened to find them in a very short time.

Very cool! I was thinking a weakness of the cat boss might be the poor rightward position we're at on the last hit, was that where the improvement came from?

I jumped one frame sooner on the last hit which permitted a better rightward position on the last hit yes. Thanks again to you and ThunderAxe31 for your contribution to this movie.

I misread, I thought it was all on Azrael. The spider wait is gone, wow! That was the only wait left that was gross. It's a little thing but it makes things that much cleaner looking!

Preview YouTube Encode: https://youtu.be/F2oNWQcpVak Downloadable Encodes: https://mega.nz/folder/jUwyTQiD#wI7Z48oawswHituRUg8lDw

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4233] NES The Smurfs by ViGadeomes & Tomygood in 08:10.65

I'm late to this, but did you look at Randil's movie file? There might be a few smaller time saves in his movie. Usually, getting hit while in left+right state is faster. You could use this in Act 10 to save about 1 - 1.5 seconds. I have not tested but it might be possible to improve the Azrael fight with this technique, if you take damage before the last hit to get to the right side faster. Otherwise your movie is solid. Good job!

I'm late to this, but did you look at Randil's movie file? There might be a few smaller time saves in his movie. Usually, getting hit while in left+right state is faster. You could use this in Act 10 to save about 1 - 1.5 seconds. I have not tested but it might be possible to improve the Azrael fight with this technique, if you take damage before the last hit to get to the right side faster. Otherwise your movie is solid. Good job!

Thanks for this ! I have to say that I didn't think about looking at old movies... I already started investigating.... Will try to give updates if I manage to save frames (like 1f on the first level but lost due to the cost of 2 frames/In-Game-Seconds like in The Sledge Race.