(Link to video)
This is a run of Math Blaster with the main goal being speed. Math Blaster has 3 sections: Trash, Caves, and Ship. In the menus you can choose between 3 and 5 lives. I add 1 life because I will be taking a lot of damage in trash.

Trash

In trash it is better to hit a wrong answer first as it only takes an additional 19 frames to fire the second shot, but hitting a correct answer first adds 40 frames because your bonus points increase and they have to be tallied in the bonus stages. For this reason, I hit an incorrect answer first all 30 times. This is the reason for the additional life. In the bonus stage, I avoid all bonus points except at the end, where shooting the last asteroids can end the stage sooner.

Caves

The main feature of caves is the up-clip glitch which was discovered recently. Normally, you are not able to progress upwards unless the number on your character is between the minimum and maximum listed on the cave level. However, with this frame perfect and pixel perfect glitch you can avoid getting detected by the laser that usually shoots you down.

Ship

In ship I manipulate the RNG to only give me problems where the correct answer is in the 2 leftmost tubes by waiting a specific amount of frames. The RNG is entirely based on the frame number and there is no other known way to manipulate it. The second tube is only slower by 1 frame, so both are acceptable as it would take at least 1 frame to RNG manipulate again until the correct answer was in the first tube. The only other glitch used here is known as the "Owch clip" where there is a 1 frame window to get "owched" by a piece of trash flying by and still make it into the tube.

ThunderAxe31: Judging.
ThunderAxe31: Hello and welcome to TASVideos!
This run is not acceptable for Alternative tier because the entertainment value is very low. Thus, Vault tier requirements will be applied.
The run is nicely optimized and beats all known records. However, the game played does not meet the Vault requirements, since it's an educational game. Specifically: this game mostly consists in doing math fast, and in fact most of the efforts showcased in this run are actually just manipulating and predicting the answers in order to solve the problems fast.
For this reason, I'm rejecting this submission. Better luck next time!
ThunderAxe31: In view of the arguments provided by feos in the forum thread of this submission, I start over the judging process.

ThunderAxe31: The argument brought by feos consisted in a different interpretation of the Vault rule for educational games. While I considered that rule to forbid any run made with educational games, he did instead consider it as actually forbidding games that don't feature TAS-worthy material. Since his argument was supposedly supported by the goal of TASVideos of developing superhuman gameplay, I decided to consider the possibility that my initial judgement was wrong.
I had a conversation with other staff members, including Nach, Mothrayas, and feos. I explained the reason for my judgement and I presented my evidence pointing out that Math Blaster can't be completed casually without solving math. In the end, everyone acknowledged that my method added a clear cut to the rule, whose text was updated accordingly. We needed to draw a clear borderline for evaluating if a given title is primarily an educational game or not. My idea was to use the concept of "casual play" as a yardstick for estimating how much determinant is the requirement to perform educational activities in order to play through the game.
On the other hand, we also agreed that relying on TAS merits for a given run could never give a definitive extimation, since that substantially consists of speculating about the TAS potential available for a given game. We can't really know in advance if such potential is actually present, and that would result in relying on chances, which we can't do for Vault rules. In fact, TAS potential can be there, but until one tries hard enough, we won't know about it. This doesn't allow for any reliable rule.
It must also be noted that while it's true that the goal of TASVideos is to develop and showcase superhuman gameplay, this is mainly done for the purpose of entertainment, which clearly doesn't apply for the Vault tier. And on the other hand, this movie has been proven by the audience to lack any TAS merits that make it entertaining to watch.
The purpose of the Vault tier is keep track of videogame records, and thus shouldn't be applied for pieces of software that can't be considered as actual games. For this reason, some kinds of titles are excluded from Vault tier, like educational games. Even if the updated rule that defines an educational game is quite lax, it's still very clear and definite, and it must be so in order to avoid impossible-to-solve cases; raising an exception here would generate a bad precedent.
This is indeed an unfortunate case because the run itself features good TASing material, as explained by feos in this post, and I also was aware of this from the start; but even then the run was not entertaining enough to be accepted for Alternative. The best I can do is to note that a "maximum score" run could potentially be entertaining enough to be accepted. Lastly, I want to thank qflame for having submitted this run, because it did give the opportunity to test and refine the rule.
Reassuming: the rule didn't change, my judgment didn't change. Rejecting again for bad game choice in conjunction with low entertainment.

FREE MATH BLASTER.
Memory: Changes in the movie rules resulted in revisiting the run. Obviously, the audience reception and the optimization has not changed. However, due to said changes, the main factor now is triviality. This run looks far from trivial, with lots of RNG manipulation and plenty of obvious optimization points. Therefore under the rules now, this movie is finally acceptable.
Freeing Math Blaster to Vault.
EZGames69 PUBLISH MATH BLASTER

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EZGames69
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Noddy isn’t an educational game.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
Regarding game shows, my personal opinion is that they shouldn't be blanket banned. I don't see this as part of the discussion on the above linked thread by Samsara. I guess I'm in the minority who thinks game show TASes and some other banned genres should be allowed to get a chance case by case. If that's the case, it's not important to create a thread, I just want to understand why they get no chance to be allowed.
I haven't seen a huge argument over some partially game-show game that still had noticeable TAS merits, I haven't taken a strong opinion in that discussion, and I haven't discussed the hell out of potential future-proof rule for them, coming up with an improvement, and then a few years later with complete removal of the ban because the main problems are already covered in another rules I participated in improving. For this reason I don't have an opinion on game show game TASes. But if you are Masterjun, your approach to having this solved is causing step one in my description: the huge argument; and AFD is your canonical date for this.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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From the start, I've been unhappy about the fate of this submission, and it bugged me for years that I couldn't make it accepted. But now, after a lot of team work and improvements of the rules, it's finally happening! I consider this as my last contribute as a judge, and I'm very proud of it. Thank you to everyone who also contributed to this progress, it wouldn't have been possible without the rest of the staff and the community!
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Can I request a debate thread being made by a judge so I can read the staff's thoughts about the rule changes and reword and submit my post there?
I was the one who proposed to un-reject Math Blaster again. I suggested it in a staff discussion, some months ago, while I was still a judge. My idea sparkled after the discussion about game triviality and TAS triviality, resulted from the judgement of Zool. I was also the one who came to the idea of defining game triviality on the basis of existing TASing precedents: to put it simply, any game is considered trivial until a non-trivial TAS record is made. Then, even if a further improvement happens to result trivial, that new TAS will be accept anyway because of the precedent set by the previous non-trivial publication. In regard of Math Blaster, I simply figured out that there was no need to ban educational games anymore, as the rule introduced with Zool did finally allow to define objectively if a game is TAS-worhy or not. I think there isn't much else to say about it.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
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I hope nobody thinks I'm on an opposite side trying to change the rules each time I see a new version. I'm very glad that this TAS got unrejected and hopefully gets accepted or rejected for something entirely different reason from triviality, too educational, banned genre, etc. I'm still against the blanket ban of game show games and any other genres for the reasons I wrote in my last non joke comment which I'm going to reiterate it here again (linkg if curious http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=462943#462943 ) (these are my personal opinions) - if Brain Age is allowed (educational game genre using numbers / mathematical knowledge), Wheel of Fortune (game show genre using words / lexical knowledge) and other knowledge based games should be also allowed A similar opinion elaborated better from DrD2k9 (linked in my original post):
I'd like to believe that creators of edutainment titles were indeed attempting to create a fun video game that also provided educational value. It's true (and unfortunate) that many edutainment titles don't tend to be fun or entertaining, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were intended to be any less 'actual' video games by their creators. If anything they were trying to be more that 'just' video games. So why is our default perspective that edutainment titles are not 'actual' video games unless enough of us deem them worthy of moon/star tier?
If I'm correct only game show TASes gets blanket banned by the new rules. Does this affect other TASes that got rejected for the following reasons?: - trivial TASes that's replicable in RTA. #5799: Flip & ajfirecracker's Genesis Aladdin, Disney's "game end glitch" in 00:02.64 - SMS Genesis Aladdin non gameplay TAS; #2614: FatRatKnight's NES The Guardian Legend "Password" in 00:03.31 - the 1 second long auto-scroller TAS <-- Note: this is an April fools day submission and uses password and uses holding buttons down... not a good example but wanted to clarify which TAS I was talking about #5218: FatRatKnight's NES Overlord in 03:57.34 - that hard SNES game which is similar to DOS X-COM: Enemy Unknown, NES Overlord beating the game as fast as an RTA game could; etc. - sport genres. Don't remember if anyone tried to submit one without entertainment (= Vault) edit: found and added in TASes I mentioned. I believe there was a thread between 2017-2018 with a few examples like this, might be written by me, currently didn't found so far. I'm still looking for the TAS of that space simulator resource management game for NES or SNES game. The RTA speedrun was probably around 3 minutes. edit2: found the space simulator game from topic Thread #21436: Bad game choice for a tas, still not found the remaining examples already written by someone else or me
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A new post as this is more about the removed page by Nach which was part of the rules (go back 1 page for the link where I linked it or watch the previous version of Wiki: MovieRules). Looks like I had a lengthy txt file pointing out the errors on that page which I unfortunately lost after mistakenly formatting my TASing hard drive. According to the table at the bottom of the page, sports gets 4/7 while "classic board" gets 0/7. A short list for each genre with valid information, first about subjective values and then about the table: - Best version is subjective and there is no need to discuss it - Not single opponent is another stuff that has nothing to do with genres or they should be TASed or whatever - Imprecise movement.... ? - Unknown rules... ? I never saw a sport game with unknown rules. - Escapes simple non-visual definition. Again I have no idea what would this do with TASing. I guess these lines were written before vault or I don't know. - Sports sometimes have a definitive version (BMX) and sometimes not (FIFA) - Pretty sure that many classic board games have multiple enemies, even the listed examples have some - Other version also have multiple enemies, even the listed examples have some I guess I could list the errors on this page for an eternity. My point is that this page shouldn't be used as an up-to-date information or the base of judging as many mistakes are present there.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
A new post as this is more about the removed page by Nach which was part of the rules (go back 1 page for the link where I linked it or watch the previous version of Wiki: MovieRules).
The page was not removed and it was never a part of the rules. There only was a link to that page that tried to explain what we mean by board games, but now the actual rule wording is better so we don't need that link anymore.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Looks like I had a lengthy txt file pointing out the errors on that page which I unfortunately lost after mistakenly formatting my TASing hard drive. According to the table at the bottom of the page, sports gets 4/7 while "classic board" gets 0/7. A short list for each genre with valid information, first about subjective values and then about the table: - Best version is subjective and there is no need to discuss it - Not single opponent is another stuff that has nothing to do with genres or they should be TASed or whatever - Imprecise movement.... ? - Unknown rules... ? I never saw a sport game with unknown rules. - Escapes simple non-visual definition. Again I have no idea what would this do with TASing. I guess these lines were written before vault or I don't know. - Sports sometimes have a definitive version (BMX) and sometimes not (FIFA) - Pretty sure that many classic board games have multiple enemies, even the listed examples have some - Other version also have multiple enemies, even the listed examples have some I guess I could list the errors on this page for an eternity. My point is that this page shouldn't be used as an up-to-date information or the base of judging as many mistakes are present there.
That table is entirely Nach's personal opinion, and a few times I tried I was unable to get comprehensible picture from him that could be reused in game genre definitions. You'd need to have a new thread to discuss that page and I doubt you ever get comprehensible answers from him either.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Oh, thanks for the clarifications! I was under the impression that the previous blanket bans of different genres came from that specific page. I'm glad it's not used as a judgement guideline! I'm still not found that list of TAS examples through my own user posts. I guess sometime in the close future will download all the rejected and cancelled TASes to get more example. Not that I have that much motivation to do but who cares.
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Post subject: Re: #5759: qflame's SNES Math Blaster Episode 1: In Search of Spot in 07:53.15
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TASVideoAgent wrote:
Freeing Math Blaster to Vault.
MATH BLASTER IS FREE AT LAST!
Steam Community page - Cohost profile Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4503] SNES Math Blaster: Episode 1 by qflame in 07:53.15
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Mission accomplished!
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
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