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This run originally was meant to be a simple resync to CGB-GBA mode, but ended up turning into a (questionable) improvement.
The main improvement here is the use of "moonwalking". Simply be, the game does a walking animation while you move if you hold the moving direction. However, if you don't hold that direction (i.e. tap it each time), you don't do this animation, resulting in a "moonwalk". This seems to reduce lag slightly, and even does so on the old TAS (not using latest hawk) if applied (at least as far as the first 6 levels), so this probably counts as an improvement.
However, you can note that this movie seems to be around 9 seconds slower than the old movie (disregard BIOS time, it's more 6 seconds). This seems to indicate that more accurate emulation results in more lag. As I've noted, I've tried applying the moonwalk to the first 6 levels on the old TAS and it ended up resulting in less lag (around 4 frames). I couldn't check anywhere past that due to the lua script I've used not behaving correctly on old hawk versions. I am fairly confident overall this is an improvement, but it is still somewhat questionable.
On a fun note, this TAS had 48187 botted rerecords, give or take a few hundred for lua script trial and error.
Lua scripts used:
EDIT: Lua script used for v2 of the TAS:
Also, the truncated input files used:
Also I used a dev version of BizHawk because lol this game, probably syncs on 2.6.2 (no it doesn't lol) but if it doesn't the submission can be delayed until 2.6.3/2.7 release.

feos: Delaying until new bizhawk release.
feos: New hawk is out now. Resetting.
feos: Judging...
feos: Updating the movie with an 8 frame improvement.
feos: I have to reject this movie in its current form. We've done some work on boiling this improvement down to something verifiable, but it doesn't look like it can really be verified using this new version of the core.
The main issue is that there's actually no guarantee that the new trick makes enough levels faster if we account for lag. The differences in times are all over the place: some levels are shorter, others are longer, and time discrepancy also varies greatly. Maybe in some places the new trick causes more lag than necessary. Which means the old approach has to be tested as well, for every level, and maybe even for every turn where it's an option.
If our only way to verify this is redoing the entirety of the old movie on the same old version of the core (to prove it's better in identical conditions), then that needs to be done as a separate submission, because we can't delay this one indefinitely, and the author hasn't given an estimate on when it could be finished.
Rejecting as explained in this post.


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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7183: Jigwally & CasualPokePlayer's GB Boxxle in 4:58:58.88
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5 hours of sokoban. Voted no.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
5 hours of sokoban. Voted no.
but it's an improvement to a published TAS (albeit longer because of emulation differences)
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
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While I did not watch this TAS, I've already watched the beginning of the first TAS incarnation of this game. 5 hours of sokoban or even 20 minutes of sokoban is not entertaining for me. Duration difference usually doesn't change my perception of entertainment of a TAS, especially if that so slight. edit: so what's up with the improvement called as "questionable"? According to the observation from the submission notes, using the probably next version of BizHawk that emulates better than the current one is okay, as long as that version going to be released where the TAS will sync.
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
edit: so what's up with the improvement called as "questionable"? According to the observation from the submission notes, using the probably next version of BizHawk that emulates better than the current one is okay, as long as that version going to be released where the TAS will sync.
The "questionable" part is due to the fact the TAS is much longer, which is (probably) explainable by more accurate emulation coming from 2.2.1 BizHawk (latest old TAS syncs on) to 2.6.3 dev BizHawk. I only used a fairly small sample size for determining the moonwalking was a lag reduction trick, but perhaps I'm wrong and it adds more lag over a long period of time? Really, only 100% way to confirm this is an improvement is to do the moonwalking on 2.2.1 or do the hold direction for animation on 2.6.3 dev (which granted, the latter is probably very simple with a lua script, but eh, judge can torture themselves with that if they want to go that far).
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1) The Japanese version seems to be considerably faster, someone on Nicovideo redid it & you can see the difference: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm34170505 2) I know since I submitted this that at least a couple of improved solutions were discovered to some of the levels, if you get in touch with Archanfel he probably knows which ones they are
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Jigwally wrote:
1) The Japanese version seems to be considerably faster, someone on Nicovideo redid it & you can see the difference: https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm34170505
1) There is a lot of visual artifacts that appear in that version which do not show up on international releases. I don't think I would prefer this version if this is the cost to pay for assumingly less lag. 2) Don't think that counts as a gameplay improvement. Although yeah, if the second point holds up that is indeed an improvement this is missing.
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Well I'm referring to a 100 minute improvement, presumably more than just lag lol
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Jigwally wrote:
Well I'm referring to a 100 minute improvement, presumably more than just lag lol
Cut out 60% of the lag and that's enough for said improvement. EDIT: Also on a peek at that version shows the lag isn't so much different, although the character just seems to move faster overall. Still doesn't sit right to use that version anyways. EDIT2: Checked every level on the linked TAS and all have an equal number of moves compared to this submission. It has no gameplay improvements in it.
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Since I guess this TAS will end up in vault, I think you should use the Japanese version. 4:58:59.01 versus 3:17:44.065 is definitely a huge difference.
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I've redone the TAS on the JPN version: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/73397997229424541 I'm not yet entirely convinced this should be the preferred version for this submission, so this shouldn't replace the movie file, at least yet.
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Wow! That was way fast to create a 3:17:50.07 [709348 frames] TAS. Obligatory good job! According to the submission text it's 9 edit: and 6 seconds BIOS time) seconds slower than previous TAS because of better emulation. So the math is 59.727500569606 rounded * (9 + 6) = (9+6) *60 = 540 + 360 = 900 frames. The differences between versions seems to indicate that your jpn TAS is faster than tas_suki's: 737 frame difference, 163 frames faster. edit: Sorry for not understanding your sentence originally. At this point, it would be better to know the exact duration difference than using an assumed time difference estimation. Frame counts: 1070926 - currently published TAS 1071823 - this submission 709348 - alternate version for jpn by (Jigwally &) CasualPokePlayer 708611 - nicovideo jpn tas by tas_suki
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
Wow! That was way fast to create a 3:17:50.07 [709348 frames] TAS. Obligatory good job! According to the submission text it's 9 edit: and 6 seconds BIOS time)
1. It did not take that long since a script applies all the inputs, once it got going it only took around 5 hours and that was partially because my pc is garbage. 2. I said it's 6 seconds if you disregard the BIOS time, implying the BIOS takes 3 seconds (9-6=3).
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Nice, yes vote! I'd consider this an improvement, with the lag reduction techniques. I am starting to think the "loss" may be due to emulation differences.
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Replace submission with this movie file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/74260823569589122 Fixes GBC thingie and nukes rerecord count
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I've redone the TAS on the JPN version: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/73397997229424541 I'm not yet entirely convinced this should be the preferred version for this submission, so this shouldn't replace the movie file, at least yet.
Is there any demerit in using the JPN version?
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I've redone the TAS on the JPN version: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/73397997229424541 I'm not yet entirely convinced this should be the preferred version for this submission, so this shouldn't replace the movie file, at least yet.
Is there any demerit in using the JPN version?
More being demerit in using the JPN or 1.0 version of the game, which feature various graphical glitches. 1.1 seems to have been slowed down to avoid these graphical glitches.
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I've redone the TAS on the JPN version: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/73397997229424541 I'm not yet entirely convinced this should be the preferred version for this submission, so this shouldn't replace the movie file, at least yet.
Is there any demerit in using the JPN version?
More being demerit in using the JPN or 1.0 version of the game, which feature various graphical glitches. 1.1 seems to have been slowed down to avoid these graphical glitches.
Sound weird. Well, looking at how many botched GB games are there, I wouldn't be surprised to be the case, but did you check if these graphical issues are there on real console as well?
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Jigwally wrote:
2) I know since I submitted this that at least a couple of improved solutions were discovered to some of the levels, if you get in touch with Archanfel he probably knows which ones they are
Is there any info about this? Regarding the Japanese version, since it's also an official release, using it is technically fine even if it has glitches. Even though I didn't notice any obvious ones, it's on the devs anyway to have released a version with problems. Cutting down the overall time significantly is a nice reason for a switch imo. However I can't force the author to switch if he has reasons to prefer the longer one. So it can stay on the international. Regarding "questional" improvement, I think the whole question about it will become moot if the movie simply uses an older version of the core to make the comparison clear and the improvement obvious. If the improvement reduces lag in the same places accuracy increases it in, it's really hard to compare and prove which kind of lag is prevailing, especially when there's overall more of this lag, and no improvements in routing.
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feos wrote:
Jigwally wrote:
2) I know since I submitted this that at least a couple of improved solutions were discovered to some of the levels, if you get in touch with Archanfel he probably knows which ones they are
Is there any info about this?
Archanfel hasn't been on the forums for nearly a year, and I can't find any other social contact info on him. RTA runs were not any help (all either the same or slower solution), and as I established earlier the linked JPN TAS on nico used the exact same solutions.
feos wrote:
Regarding "questional" improvement, I think the whole question about it will become moot if the movie simply uses an older version of the core to make the comparison clear and the improvement obvious. If the improvement reduces lag in the same places accuracy increases it in, it's really hard to compare and prove which kind of lag is prevailing, especially when there's overall more of this lag, and no improvements in routing.
I mainly didn't actually do it entirely due to issues I had with my lua script, although granted, that was with an older version of the lua script which also had issues with the JPN version, which I was able to resolve for that version, so perhaps it might work fine? I'll look into it when I can.
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I believe this site is the best source for records. There are two move solutions that have been improved since 2017.
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I mainly didn't actually do it entirely due to issues I had with my lua script, although granted, that was with an older version of the lua script which also had issues with the JPN version, which I was able to resolve for that version, so perhaps it might work fine? I'll look into it when I can.
Any news on this?
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feos wrote:
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
I mainly didn't actually do it entirely due to issues I had with my lua script, although granted, that was with an older version of the lua script which also had issues with the JPN version, which I was able to resolve for that version, so perhaps it might work fine? I'll look into it when I can.
Any news on this?
I haven't had the time to go into this. I don't know how soon I will. This TAS still has other potential improvements regardless which could make this point moot anyways. The lua script should make these improvements easy to implement anyways. EDIT: Ok that site doesn't actually seem to post the solutions to those puzzles, but rather just reports the records of them (without any public proof). Not sure how to proceed with this now.
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I could Delay for 1 more month, but then it'd probably be best to cancel until things are sorted out.
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CasualPokePlayer wrote:
EDIT: Ok that site doesn't actually seem to post the solutions to those puzzles, but rather just reports the records of them (without any public proof). Not sure how to proceed with this now.
Based on the original submission Archanfel will provide their solution if you can actually contact them. No idea about Jorge.