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TiKevin83
He/Him
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Joined: 3/17/2018
Posts: 357
Location: Holland, MI
Something that may help this research: https://github.com/kaspermeerts/supermarioland It looks like there has been some amount of disassembly work on this game.
Editor, Expert player (2327)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3927
Location: Germany
Just for future reference, there was some talk on Twitter a while ago (can't find it right now), that a Japanese RTA player managed to get the scroll glitch in 4-2, which caused the dropping platform at the end to be displaced so Mario could fall straight down, saving a bit of time. Although the glitch is very rare and lag-dependent, it may be possible to do it in a new TAS.
Editor, Expert player (2327)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3927
Location: Germany
A while ago, TiKevin83 resynced and also console-verified the current normal mode TAS here. Since I had previously proven that the normal mode TAS can still be improved, I looked into implementing the improvement in the resynced bk2 movie file. I don't know how TiKevin83 managed to resync the normal mode run VBM because I had to add idle frames after every level and didn't get the same bonus game as in my "known improvement" VBM. After adding a "Pause, nothing, nothing, Unpause" input after 3-3's scoring finished, I managed to get a fireflower bonus game anyway. It didn't save 7 frames like anticipated, but actually 20 frames over the resynced bk2. The resynced bk2 kills the 1-3 boss and fades white from the bonus screen on frame 8496. The new bk2 which does not kill the boss fades white from the bonus screen on frame 8476. There are also these facts which played a role into getting more improvements: - I managed to find a 3 frame improvement in 1-3 by optimizing the pyramid section in the middle - For now, due to observations I made with the frame rules, I will assume that omitting the boss is faster than killing him. - I found that selecting a different color pattern during boot-up changes bonus game luck. So I went through world 1 without inserting any idle frames and then got a fireflower by pressing Down+B at frame 12 during boot-up. This made the bonus game fade-out at 8470, therefore saving 26 frames. - I still have to optimize world 1 for points before I can continue. - With the current movie, the Down+B input is the only color pattern that will give a flower in 1-3 bonus game. - If you use different button combinations during boot-up, one after the other, then it will give the result as if you had only pressed the last one. Sometimes it will give a start screen that is delayed by 1Frame so the movie desyncs. Therefore, selecting a color pattern multiple times will not give more control over the bonus game luck.
-----

Press on frame 12:	Outcome:		
< A			Ladder-2up 		(2, f, 3, 1)
^ A			Ladder-flower 		
> A			(late start screen)
v A			Ladder-2up		
< B			1up
^ B			2up
> B			1up
v B			Flower (Success!)
<			2up			(3, 1, 2, f)
^			(undesired outcome not noted)
>			Ladder-2up		(2, f, 3, 1)
v			(undesired outcome not noted)
press nothing		(undesired outcome not noted)

-----

Press on frame 12: <A
Press on frame 14: >B
Outcome:	1up

Press on frame 12: ^A
Press on frame 14: vB
Outcome:	(late start screen)

Press on frame 12: <
Press on frame 14: vB
Outcome:	(late start screen)

Press on frame 12: vB
Press on frame 14: <
Outcome: 	2up

Press on frame 12: ^a
Press on frame 14: >
Outcome:	Ladder-2up

Press on frame 12: <
Press on frame 14: >
Press on frame 16: va
Outcome:	 Ladder-2up
Found another 2 frame improvement, by taking mush and fireflower in 1-1 instead of 1-2. Maybe the obtaining of mush or fireflower in 1-2 was suboptimal. Getting Flower in 1-1 is better for getting points. Unfortunately, with the 2 frame improvement, I had to find a new suitable color pattern but there was no color pattern that gave a bonus game with fireflower. So I will have to insert an idle frame or two. EDiT: It seems the 2 frame improvement got defeated by the frame rule in 1-3. So I didn't save any more time, but this is good anyway. I found points improvements and there are possibly more color patterns that will get fireflower in 1-3 and maybe in world 2.
TiKevin83
He/Him
Ambassador, Moderator, Site Developer, Player (154)
Joined: 3/17/2018
Posts: 357
Location: Holland, MI
It was less of a resync and more a rewrite, yeah the lag was completely different everywhere and it threw off the bonus games. The bk2s for 1.0 and 1.1 should still be in userfiles. To make sure, you're using console mode GBA?
Editor, Expert player (2327)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3927
Location: Germany
TiKevin83 wrote:
To make sure, you're using console mode GBA?
I'm using mode GBC mode. Oh, that might explain why there was such a time gap between the two movies. The boot-up on GBA takes a bit longer. Should the GBC mode be used because it is fastest? Or should the GBA mode be used to be able to play it back on console?
TiKevin83
He/Him
Ambassador, Moderator, Site Developer, Player (154)
Joined: 3/17/2018
Posts: 357
Location: Holland, MI
Yeah I won't be able to verify any further improvement unless console mode is GBA since the BIOS is slightly different - feel free to use whichever is fastest, there's no hard requirement to use a version that verifies and my verification was never submittable since it had no gameplay improvements
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (694)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 772
Location: California
MUGG wrote:
TiKevin83 wrote:
To make sure, you're using console mode GBA?
I'm using mode GBC mode. Oh, that might explain why there was such a time gap between the two movies. The boot-up on GBA takes a bit longer. Should the GBC mode be used because it is fastest? Or should the GBA mode be used to be able to play it back on console?
Using one console or the other for purely for a faster boot time is not considered a gameplay improvement here. You wouldn't be penalized for using GBA mode. Up to you for which mode you want to use.
Editor, Expert player (2327)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3927
Location: Germany
Ok. For now I will continue working on a new run, but I'm not promising anything here... I will decide which mode to use. I guess it is possible to switch between the two (GBA and GBC) easily and the bonus luck can be adjusted quickly. At least until we get to 2-3's bonus game. So it doesn't matter for now.
Tikevin83 GBC modeTikevin83 GBA modeGBC by muggGBA by mugg
Idle frames usedUnknownUnknown1 on title screen2 on title screen
Color palette useddefaultdefaultdefaultdefault
Frame # Title screen visible203217203217
Frame # 1-3 fade to white830983238283*8297**
Frame # Bonus game faded out8496851084708484
1-3 Boss killed?yesyesnono
Score after 1-340,85040,85033,75033,750
(All movie files use ROM version 1.0 and Bizhawk 2.7-Gambatte core.) *8281 is possible, but the bonus game couldn't be manipulated. **8295 is possible, but the bonus game couldn't be manipulated. It looks like the 26 frame gap didn't come from any mode difference. I compared my GBC mode run to your movie file set to GBC. Todo: Try idle frames in other places.
Joined: 2/13/2022
Posts: 1
Location: Nova Scotia
MUGG wrote:
Just for future reference, there was some talk on Twitter a while ago (can't find it right now), that a Japanese RTA player managed to get the scroll glitch in 4-2, which caused the dropping platform at the end to be displaced so Mario could fall straight down, saving a bit of time. Although the glitch is very rare and lag-dependent, it may be possible to do it in a new TAS.
Found 3 examples, if you're still interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfxDRLrz2eo https://twitter.com/edosoa/status/1233609718762881025 https://clips.twitch.tv/KitschySpicyEyeballKappaWealth
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