Joined: 2/12/2015
Posts: 152
Location: Everett, WA
Sure, we've had a few TASes of the NES version, which is where DW3 pretty much stems from. I'm kind of disappointed nobody here's decided to start work on a TAS of its Super Famicom and/or Game Boy Color versions, so I started this thread that'll focus on the latter.
And why this version specifically? It's because it has a whole collection of 165 Monster Medals. These come in three tiers--bronze, silver, and gold--and monsters rarely drop them upon you killing them. Even the bosses can drop these, which pretty much motivates savescumming and theoretically infinite amounts of level grinding. Collecting all of these medals lets you access a second bonus dungeon, but I've never seen said dungeon in action, not even in a Let's Play since the only one on the LP Archive is of the Super Famicom version, and that version of this game doesn't have that dungeon. It does, however, go to the bonus dungeon that's in both the Super Famicom and Game Boy Color versions.
Anyway, about me TASing this game: when I muster up enough free time and patience, I'm probably going to do a few TASes of this game. The branches I can think up for now are:
- "any%": complete the game as fast as possible
- "all Monster Medals": collect every single Monster Medal in the game and do the bonus dungeon that you unlock upon getting all of these medals. Perhaps this could also count as a 100% run?
I might do an any% run first, but the only roadblock I have is that I haven't beaten this game and probably never will without tools. I blame my very low amount of patience for this.
And about the Monster Medals--I know of a method to manipulate getting those (as well as random drops) from defeating an enemy; it involves autofiring various buttons before you exit a battle that you've finished. However, there are a few limitations as to what medals I can get at certain times:
StrategyWiki.org wrote:
After acquiring two or more bronze medals, you have the chance of getting a silver medal. You also need at [least] two silver medals to get a gold medal. The chances of getting a gold medal are 100 times less than that of getting a bronze medal[...]
In short, I might need a LUA bot to give me a lot of help with TASing this game, no matter the route. Unfortunately, I have no LUA skills, and I don't have enough patience to root through this game with a hex editor, or, as I said earlier, beat this game.
Luckily, if I remember correctly, the same method of manipulating luck also works on the automated battles in the monster arenas, where you bet on monster X and see if it wins as it fights other monsters, thus getting you much more gold if the monster you bet on wins. This could come in handy for speeding up grinding for more gold.
Anyway, back to the Monster Medals--I also know that you can trade them between two copies of the game, so I might be required to do a TAS of this game with two Game Boy Colors.
Oh, and if there are any attempted TASes of this version of the game out there, then please link me to them! I'd love to see how anybody else has tried TASing this game.
:shrug:
I'm more active on Twitter nowadays: @HunterCoates5
Joined: 2/12/2015
Posts: 152
Location: Everett, WA
juef, I'm also interested in a TAS going through the two bonus dungeons in this version of this game. It'd add on to the entertainment factor of what could possibly be a really long TAS if I'll be making it any time soon.
Oh, and if I am going to use two Game Boy Colors to TAS this game with all the Monster Medals, I might go through either one of or both of the bonus dungeons with both copies of the game at once to show off any differences between the two games' parties...assuming there will be any. Maybe having different parties between the two copies of the game can be a speed-entertainment tradeoff, whether the differences between them are major or minor or not.
Heck, assuming the bonus dungeons contain some exclusive monsters in them, then going through said dungeons probably won't be a speed/entertainment tradeoff.
:shrug:
I'm more active on Twitter nowadays: @HunterCoates5
Joined: 2/12/2015
Posts: 152
Location: Everett, WA
I could TAS the SNES version, but that doesn't have the Monster Medals; the GBC port does.
Aside from that, I found this cancelled TAS of this game the other day. I don't know which version of VBA I'm supposed to use to play it back, though.
All I could pick up from reading its discussion thread is that it used heavy amounts of glitches to beat the game in 35 minutes. Those glitches apparently involved a lot of menuing; I'm not sure how to pull them off. I wonder if these glitches are doable in the (U) version.
:shrug:
I'm more active on Twitter nowadays: @HunterCoates5
Also interested. Can the Pachisi glitch be triggered? Last time I played this game on emulator (no tools) I could never get it to work.
My plan is to just speed through to the first Pachisi, get to level 99, and speed through the rest of the early-mid game. I've figured out a bit about how encounters work (basically a timer that counts down each step) and will explain further when I have time.
Edit: Pachisi glitch didn't work, from what I've tested. Need to figure out how to do so before I can proceed.
#6717
Interested in:
GBA Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (any%)
GBC Dragon Warrior III (Pachisi glitch - skipping Kandar 1 means Kandar 2 won't be triggered)
the cancelled submission uses it, doesn't it? also,can you specify the emulator used:bizhawk vbarr vbanext?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSr4otbdjx0
this guy seems to use the gbc version as well
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Afaik the Japanese version doesn't have the pachisi glitch. The glitch can be triggered via "normal" gameplay (I've seen it happen on an actual GBC) but for some reason emulator save states don't work.
I'm using BizHawk/Gambatte.
Gah, since I'm stuck trying to figure out how to trigger the glitch, I'll shed some light on encounters.
Encounters seem to be step-based; i.e. an encounter will happen every n frames, and so far I haven't been able to avoid it by RNG manipulation (as in the NES version). The "encounter timer", as I like to call it, is in the address 0C61. The largest value I've seen is around 40. Every step in an area with encounters decreases this value by 1 to 2. Certain actions "refill" this address, including changing area (e.g. stairs), entering the overworld, and finishing/fleeing a battle. Entering a town, or changing area in a town, usually causes the value to decrease, but playing around with DPad input can make it increase by a very small amount (1-4).
However, I still don't know how the refill works, nor how it can be manipulated. Ideally, true optimisation would involve determining minimum number of steps required in each area, the corresponding minimum 0C61 value required, and then applying the appropriate manipulation.
Here are things that I believe do not trigger the pachisi glitch:
- delaying frames when rolling the dice (all three times)
- delaying when you move to the ! square
Basically, manipulating anything short-term doesn't seem to trigger it.
Here are some (probably questionable) theories I've come up with on how to trigger it:
- having a save file (I haven't saved so far)
- reaching a certain in-game time
- having a certain minimum EXP (or STR)
#6717
Interested in:
GBA Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (any%)
GBC Dragon Warrior III (Pachisi glitch - skipping Kandar 1 means Kandar 2 won't be triggered)
Are you guys aware of this run which completes the Japanese version in ~5 minutes through some sort of debug menu glitch?
Link to video
The page on niconico has a .bkm file which I confirmed syncs on BizHawk 1.5.3; I have not yet been able to complete a resync on 1.12, though I will try to have that working if/when possible.
Yes, but I'm not interested in such a run. If I were to do this game, I'd only use the pachisi glitch and nothing more.
#6717
Interested in:
GBA Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (any%)
GBC Dragon Warrior III (Pachisi glitch - skipping Kandar 1 means Kandar 2 won't be triggered)
I've been messing about with an all gold monster medals TAS for this game. Part of the routing involves figuring out how exactly the Pachisi bug works. I think I've got it understood well enough to get the bug to work consistently with some RNG manipulation.
This thread on GameFAQs, specifically Paulygon's posts, was key to understanding how and why the glitch happens in the US version.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/450388-dragon-warrior-iii/53836019
The mechanics guide on GameFAQs by Sk8erpunq was also key to understanding some of the inner mechanics.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/450388-dragon-warrior-iii/faqs/70252
Here's the rundown on how it works.
The STR, AGI, VIT, INT, and LUCK stats are actually not integers. They have a shown value ranging from 0-255 and a partial value in memory. Each part takes up 1 byte in memory for a total of 2 bytes per stat.
In the original JP release on the Pachisi board, max HP can be lowered by one of the events involving rolling dice to change stats. While max HP could be lowered, the current HP before the stat reduction still remains the same afterwards. This can result in having more current HP than max HP. For the US release, there was an added function to reduce current HP down to max HP after the stat reduction if the current HP would be above the max HP.
However, this new bit of code has an oversight where the stat check function is done for every possible stat reduction in the dice stat change event. In these cases, the comparisons for most of the other results checks the partial values of stats in memory.
For the case of the level up bug, the game checks if the partial STR stat against the partial AGI stat. If the partial STR stat is higher, then the whole STR value is copied into the high value for experience points.
This is controllable with RNG manipulation. RNG manipulation seems to work similarly to the Dragon Warrior Monsters game since they pretty much work on the same base engine. There are two important parts to this: the partial STR and part AGI values have to be set before attempting the Pachisi bug, and the shown STR value affects how much experience is gained by the Pachisi bug in this effect. Assuming a character has 65535 or less experience, this adds (65536 * shown STR value) to the character's experience. Levels ups are checked at the end of a victorious battle so the effect isn't immediate. Thus for a character to gain a lot of levels, the shown STR value must be a sufficiently high number to gain end/post-game levels. As a small aside, a sufficiently low enough shown STR value can lower a character's experience though this isn't exactly helpful.
I have a basic RAM watch that I used for getting the conditions for the experience bug to work over here:
User movie #638420079399910632
I came across this thread on GameFAQs doing a bit more research since the Pachisi glitch grants access to the Open spell.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/450388-dragon-warrior-iii/80368559
Turns out there are some doors that the spell can't open for some reason. More importantly, the New Town status can't advance without first obtaining the Final Key. While that does mean getting the dry vase is mandatory, the Pyramid and the magic key is completely optional. Alongside that info, the monsters in the Pyramid can be found elsewhere so even for all gold medals it can be skipped.
This leads to a rough start of what can be done on the US version in terms of routing:
After meeting the King, buy a warp wing and recruit needed party members.
Head to Reeve to set a warp point.
Get the Thief's key from Najimi Tower and warp back to Reeve.
Get the magic bomb in Reeve and leave the island.
Enter Romaly at night to grab the two tokens. Nighttime is required as otherwise a dog sits on top of a token.
Head to the first Pachisi track north of Romaly. Grab the token on the 1st floor and the token on the board proper.
Perform the Pachisi experience bug for each party member to reach end game levels.
Head to Shampane Tower and beat Kandar 1. This is required to spawn Kandar 2.
Warp back to Romaly and head towards Portoga. The gates can be passed with the Open spell. Talk to the king of Portoga to get the letter for Norud.
Walk back to the Romaly Gate to reach Samano's Cave. Get the Mirror in the cave.
Enter Samano Castle at night and defeat the Boss Troll, retrieving the Change Staff for story progression.
Warp to Romaly and go through to Norud's Tunnel.
Head to Baharata Cave and defeat Kandar 2. This makes the Pepper available in Baharata.
Warp back to Portoga and trade in the Pepper for the ship.
Take the ship to Edinbear. Use the Invisible spell and solve the puzzle for the Dry Vase.
Head to the location where the Dry Vase is needed and get the Final Key,
This route skips over needing the Magic key in the Pyramid as a high level mage gives access to both the Open and Invisible spells. I haven't quite finalized where the rest of the route should go in either any% or all medals but taking a look at RTA routes can probably help with that.
I should post my WIP for those who are somehow still interested in making TASes for this game.
User movie #638424460885615278
It's definitely not perfect considering that I've been manually manipulating RNG. There's even a couple of gaffes mentioned in the user file info that'd require an extensive amount of redoing RNG that I don't quite have the energy do redo. I'll probably step away from this for a bit but will probably come back to it. If nothing else this does give an idea of how an "any%"/"all gold medals" TAS on the US version could look like since the Pachisi glitch is abused to proceed to sequence breaking. There's even a bit of extra luck manipulation to get a poison knife from the Pachisi track, though it might not be necessary for an any% TAS. Anything that skips the pyramid would probably be attractive for the folks interested in TASing this version of the game as well.
