(Link to video)
Submission Text Full Submission Page
Verification movie https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638636985048426780 2 controllers 2 memcards player 1 disconnected
the actual movie uses 4 controllers and 2 mem cards
i managed to resync this MAX SCORE SHIN AKUMA TAS that plays survival mode to get the ultimate high score, i do a lot of combos and parries to achieve that.
if the goal was only to beat survival mode only for speed, it could be much faster with some other chars and ex groove disregarding such lengthy combos, maybe haohmaru would be the char for that goal. if the goal was to get max score on survival mode only, it's the first TAS to get max high score but i believe it could be faster with both shin akuma itself or maybe some other character with infinites.
my suggestion is to evaluate this as the only max score survival mode so far, and if someone comes along and wants to obsolete this for bein faster, go ahead. The fact is I tried to make this more entertaining than just using the same 40hits combo all the time.
thanks for your attention!
eien86: Claiming for judging.

Show more

Hide
Posted: 10/5/2024 4:25 AM
Quote
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15619
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #9332: KusogeMan's GC Capcom vs. SNK 2: EO "survival, high score" in 36:32.00
Posted: 10/6/2024 10:47 AM
Quote
Dimon12321
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (597)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1227
Location: Romania
The goal of survival mode, which is winning all opponents one by one, restricts the entertainment value a little, because you can't switch your character in-between battles. The choice of character decreases it a little more by reducing the challenge, since Shin Akuma deals more damage than his usual alter ego, making the fights easier. The tactic of hitting opponents while they're holding a block is a little dubious in terms of optimization, because it takes quite long to earn "+20 guard crush" bonus. It also would be beneficial to do the superpower attack of 30+ combo hits when your opponent has little to none health, to earn more points. Anyway, I didn't do the calculations to confirm the most optimal tactic. After all, the run focuses on entertainment too. The battles are variative, and they don't feel boring. Yes vote
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Posted: 10/6/2024 6:09 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
Dimon12321 wrote:
The goal of survival mode, which is winning all opponents one by one, restricts the entertainment value a little, because you can't switch your character in-between battles. The choice of character decreases it a little more by reducing the challenge, since Shin Akuma deals more damage than his usual alter ego, making the fights easier. The tactic of hitting opponents while they're holding a block is a little dubious in terms of optimization, because it takes quite long to earn "+20 guard crush" bonus. It also would be beneficial to do the superpower attack of 30+ combo hits when your opponent has little to none health, to earn more points. Anyway, I didn't do the calculations to confirm the most optimal tactic. After all, the run focuses on entertainment too. The battles are variative, and they don't feel boring. Yes vote
shin akuma takes more damage as well he has lowest HP in the game, so his capabilities are balanced by his health, but in tas we only get hit to show off interactions, if i want to. it's like you said, the TAS already has the merit of reaching highest score possible, which is something i hadn't seen previously but if i went exclusively for that i know it would be more repetitive and i got a little tired of TASing only speed related goals, the high score seemed like a better to allow variations that still entertain. I wouldn't be able to Misogi super "teleport chop from the sky" if i went exclusively for speed wouldn't be able to show off some parrying and weird trades and hit interactions with pure speed for the high score. I've been trying some combos exclusive to TAS in order to create a playaround but I don't have enough content so far.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/5/2024 6:23 PM
Quote
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1886)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
NES TASer of 2023 PC TASer of 2023 NES TAS of 2023 PC TASer of 2021
Hi Kusoge, At 1:44 you beat Maki having taken a bit of damage and thus do not get additional score for a perfect fight. This seems obviously sub-optimal in terms of score, do you have an explanation for this?
Posted: 11/5/2024 6:41 PM
(Edited: 11/5/2024 6:44 PM)
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
i wanted to show off interactions besides just doing more score, in this case how the super has so little invencibility it trades with a kick at the end of the day the score has a limit, so we were gonna get there anyway, in hindsight i believe another groove might be faster as well for getting max score, probably A groove but i'm not 100% sure of that, i would also lose access to misogi super and shun goku satsu if i went the faster route and wouldn't have JD or Parry if i didnt at least pick an Ex Groove if not P or K groove
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/5/2024 6:42 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
What's the limit?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/5/2024 6:42 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
feos wrote:
What's the limit?
9999
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/5/2024 6:49 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Can you give a rough approximation of how much faster it would have been if it didn't aim for entertainment at all?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/5/2024 7:25 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
feos wrote:
Can you give a rough approximation of how much faster it would have been if it didn't aim for entertainment at all?
no idea at all, nobody has gone for SCORE and time both at the same time, it's not known how fast you can achieve a HIGH SCORE, even the groove selection could be argued it could be better depending on how you want to build the score, K is very defensive and i could have used both A and P groove for easier and faster 1 combo kills, but i'm not sure that's faster than K groove multiple counters and then super or combo best example of fast round is 14:07 raiden, but you can see the gauge is already a bit filled
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/5/2024 7:33 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Don't you know how many times you opted to use a more entertaining strat rather than a faster one? Like maybe once or a few times in some levels, or never in others? Or more?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/5/2024 7:41 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
feos wrote:
Don't you know how many times you opted to use a more entertaining strat rather than a faster one? Like maybe once or a few times in some levels, or never in others? Or more?
i have no idea if i'm going faster by choosing K groove, using the defensive strats, or using the aggressive strats, all that is known is that PARRY and JD adds points, going faster adds points, bigger combos add more points, but if the time spent in one activity or the other is better, i have no idea, everything indicates that combos and parry are better to get points, as this is the first time the 9999 points were recorded, but i don't know if i should keep parrying more or ending the rounds faster.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/6/2024 4:19 AM
Quote
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1886)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
NES TASer of 2023 PC TASer of 2023 NES TAS of 2023 PC TASer of 2021
Some back of the envelope calculations: Starting score: 100.0 From one of your best fights (Morrigan) in terms of speed and score you get:
  • Vitality: 20
  • Perfect Bonus: 50
  • Max Combo Bonus: 94
Which theoretically brings you 164 points per battle if you won all of them in the same way. Since there are 48 battles, you'd receive 7872 points only from end-of-battle bonuses. This means you only need 2128 extra points from combos+parry+etc during the fights, with an average of 44 points per battle. In your morrigan fight, you obtained 68 points from combos (more than 44) and finished it in 13 seconds. If you had beaten all fights in the same time, you'd have finished the game in 10:04.00 (IGT). However, in this movie you beat all the fights in 22:46.16 (IGT), 1366 seconds in total. That brings a 28 second average per battle. This means your movie contains more than half (~53%) IGT time which is not directly required to accomplish the goal. The question is whether this much tradeoff is justified by the added entertainment component
Posted: 11/6/2024 11:08 AM
Quote
InputEvelution
She/Her
Editor, Reviewer, Player (36)
Joined: 3/27/2018
Posts: 195
Location: Australia
I decided to give this TAS a watch. The more varied use of moves and combos definitely helped increase the initial entertainment of the run, but unfortunately, it still grew stale for me relatively quickly, and I found myself not wanting to watch any more by the midpoint. I also found myself a little confused at a few points - occasionally the player's attacks wouldn't connect and there didn't seem to be any reason why. Some of the non-parried/blocked attacks also fell into this category for me. This definitely feels like a playaround rather than a speedrun, but it outstays its welcome for me and doesn't offer anything too extraordinary. I voted No for this reason.
Posted: 11/7/2024 6:07 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
I watched this after #9372: KusogeMan's GC Capcom vs. SNK 2: EO "playaround" in 21:05.85 to better understand the difference and the goal of this run. Unfortunately it doesn't make the actual goal clearer. #9372: KusogeMan's GC Capcom vs. SNK 2: EO "playaround" in 21:05.85 has variety and looks good, because it has a lot of fighters represented and different things are happening all the time. This submission obviously doesn't look as bland as simply spamming the same move, it looks okay, but still it doesn't feel like one fighter has enough arsenal of moves to make half an hour varied enough for a "playaround". And even with all the variety, the goal is still speed, so in the end the run is still less exciting as the proper "playaround". A "playaround" isn't meant to limit itself, but due to limitations this goal had, the action didn't remain fresh, it just felt a bit more random than in a pure speedrun. If 30-50% of the movie is for entertainment, it would need to be due to a goal that's entertaining even in a speedrun, or it'd need to be unlimited in terms of speed to actually look good. I can't consider variety of this run a speed/entertainment tradeoff that's just added to make the actual speed goal more smooth. It's an extra goal in itself, so this run is technically "Survival, maximum score, playaround". But the "playaround" part of it is too limited by other sub-goals. In my opinion they don't quite work in a combination. Since this movie doesn't look bad, just the combination of goals taken makes its entertainment questionable, I'm voting Meh.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 11/7/2024 7:12 PM
Quote
CoolHandMike
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Experienced player (897)
Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 717
First edition TAS of 2023 Sega TAS of 2023
I do not think it is boring but not interesting enough for me to watch the whole thing after a couple minutes. Not as interesting as the playaround imo.
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Posted: 11/8/2024 5:12 AM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
thanks for your feedback here's another survival tas high score but now no time wasting trying to entertain just combos to get high score and after uncombo to go even faster when you don't need points anymore https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638666393948501231 verification movie is the same as the other TAS that was accepted: i need it to use ex groove to combo easier https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638661635698903772
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/8/2024 3:58 PM
(Edited: 11/8/2024 3:58 PM)
Quote
eien86
He/Him
Judge, Skilled player (1886)
Joined: 3/21/2021
Posts: 262
Location: Switzerland
NES TASer of 2023 PC TASer of 2023 NES TAS of 2023 PC TASer of 2021
KusogeMan wrote:
thanks for your feedback here's another survival tas high score but now no time wasting trying to entertain just combos to get high score and after uncombo to go even faster when you don't need points anymore https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638666393948501231
Hi Kusoge. Since this is an entirely new movie (not a slight optimization or truncation), it will need to be uploaded as a separate submission. This is to have voting, feedback, sync and encode specific to that work, instead of mixing it with those in this submission. Before you do that, I'd recommend cancelling this one.
KusogeMan wrote:
verification movie is the same as the other TAS that was accepted: i need it to use ex groove to combo easier https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638661635698903772
Can you please explain why ex groove is necessary for the movie? Is this something you need to unlock and is not available from a new game start?
Posted: 11/8/2024 4:47 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
ex groove allows for different combos that can stun later so i can do more hits before stunning and also allows for other combo enders, both runs are still verification movie based so i figured "why not?"
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 11/8/2024 4:48 PM
Quote
TASVideosGrue
They/Them
Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2791
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom... juicy!
Posted: 11/13/2024 12:53 PM
Quote
KusogeMan
Experienced player (753)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1804
Location: Brasil
https://tasvideos.org/9381S this is the new version
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.