Joined: 11/3/2004
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I don't think most of the Jinjos are really that far off, though. I'd have to poke around the game again, but the only one that comes to mind as a definite skip is the one in Treasure Trove Cove, with that stupid underwater blue Jinjo. (How did he even get down there, anyway? Idiot.)
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But he's right under the start! Though swimming is a little slow.
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Remember that if you're going for any% you don't need anything beyond 810 notes and 94 jiggies (and 75 Mumbo tokens, unless you want to do the washing machine trick so you don't have to pay... :) ). So skip a bunch of notes that are out of the way, too, unless you absolutely need the item refills before Grunty. When (if?) a 100% is done, would you guys get the washing machine code? do the Cheato quests? finish all of Grunty's Furnace Fun? Also, look at this: http://www.geocities.com/n64highscores/BanjoKazooie.html This is a sort of speed compilation; although it's obvious that the times here will be better than these (as these are 100% times), someone may want to see if you can contact Nic O'Connor or Phil Hughes for help with preliminary level routes. The site says their e-mails are: avengerownage@hotmail.com (Phil Hughes) banjokazooie64@aol.com (Nic O'Connor) I have no idea how current those are.
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Hmm, now that you mention it, if you skip a transformation, you'll get to skip both the puzzle pieces you need it for and the Mumbo magic tokens you need to do the transformation in the first place. Which transformation would be most worth skipping?
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Don't the later transformations cost more tokens than the earlier ones? I remember the walrus being slow, the bee being expensive, and the pumpkin being both of those. The bee was by far my favorite, but I don't think it was used to collect very many jiggies in the 100% speedrun. (Maybe someone should time parts of the 100% speedrun to rank the jiggies by how slow they are to collect, as a rough estimate of something.)
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Strange, I thought the bee got a lot of jiggies... I was thinking of cutting out the walrus, although that only saves 15 tokens. It would be hard to determine how much time you lose for each jiggy, though, since it's not like Super Mario 64 where you exit the level after each one. You want to plan them out on a route that includes all the other items you intend to get, and some jiggies have several steps to getting them that you need to add up.
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Not having played the game for about 5 years (and not having watched the speedrun in about a year), I can't remember much, but isn't the pumpkin required to get to a new painting? I vaguely remember breaking a gate, going into a coffin to get something... Does the walrus need to go out of level boundaries to gain access to more things? If not, maybe we can safely eliminate him.
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Heh, "painting"? But yeah, you're right, I'm pretty sure you do need the pumpkin's small size to get to a water switch to open up Rusty Bucket Bay. And the walrus is the only transformation that isn't needed for anything in Gruntilda's Lair! If you skip the walrus, you have to skip Wozza's jiggy, the sled race jiggy, and possibly also the speed shoes version of the sled race because I think you need to do the walrus sled race first for that. What else have I forgotten?
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Post subject: Ideas on Transformation Skipping
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Don't the later transformations cost more tokens than the earlier ones? I remember the walrus being slow, the bee being expensive, and the pumpkin being both of those. The bee was by far my favorite, but I don't think it was used to collect very many jiggies in the 100% speedrun. (Maybe someone should time parts of the 100% speedrun to rank the jiggies by how slow they are to collect, as a rough estimate of something.) The pumpkin is slow and expensive, but you need it to unlock Rusty Bucket Bay. There are two ways to deal with this: - Use the pumpkin. It's 20 Mumbo tokens, but you cna get a bunch of extra stuff in Mad Monster Mansion with it. - Use the Treasure Trove Cove unlock code for Rusty Bucket Bay ("CHEAT WHY NOT TAKE A TRIP INSIDE GRUNTYS RUSTY SHIP"). For speedrun purposes, you could hit the switch to open up the Click Clock Woods puzzle, then go and enter the code AND hit the Click Clock Woods puzzle at the same time. Rusty Bucket Bay's on the way to Click Clock Woods anyway. This way, you don't even need the pumpkin (unless you feel a need to get the stuff in Mad Monster Mansion). But I don't know if Bisqwit et al. would allow that. It would be nice to skip that, anyway. Strange, I thought the bee got a lot of jiggies... I was thinking of cutting out the walrus, although that only saves 15 tokens. The bee is only usable in Spring. It lets you get the Witch Switch Jiggy (although you need to get into Winter to hit that anyway) and a bunch of stuff really high up, as well as (not sure) some stuff from the Zubba hive. Not a huge amount of stuff, really. Not having played the game for about 5 years (and not having watched the speedrun in about a year), I can't remember much, but isn't the pumpkin required to get to a new painting? I vaguely remember breaking a gate, going into a coffin to get something... Near the entrance to Mad Monster Mansion, there's a little cottage with a hole in the door. In the non-sequence-break fashion, you go in there as the pumpkin so you can hit the switch, which is a series of things toward unlocking Rusty Bucket Bay. Does the walrus need to go out of level boundaries to gain access to more things? If not, maybe we can safely eliminate him. There is absolutely nothing outside of Freezeezy Peak that the Walrus is used for. However, it is a prerequisite for 2 Jiggies in there, and a third can only be played once you've done the previous one with the Walrus. You really don't want to get rid of this transformation. A little transformation synopsis: 1. Mumbo's Mountain - Termite (5 tokens). 2 Jiggies, 6 notes necessary, 6 notes made easier. 2. Bubblegloop Swamp - Alligator (10 tokens). 1 Jiggy, 6 notes necessary, 1 Jinjo and a bunch of notes made easier. 3. Freezeezy Peak - Walrus (15 tokens). 3 (!) Jiggies necessary, 9 notes made easier. 4. Mad Monster Mansion - Pumpkin (20 tokens). 2 Jiggies, 5 notes necessary, quite a few notes made easier. Required (grr) for unlocking Rusty Bucket Bay (?). 5. Click Clock Wood - Bee (25 tokens). 2 (?) Jiggies necessary. Only active in Spring. The optimum transformations to skip would probably be the Bee, Alligator, and maybe Termite. Without the Termite or the Bee, also, you don't need the Witch Switches in Mumbo's Mountain or Click Clock Wood. That could save you a few seconds as well. You may be able to skip the Pumpkin too. Maybe. Also, it's interesting to note that if you use the Washing Machine transformation ("WISHY WASHY BANJO" after completing the Bottles puzzles in Banjo's house) then you don't have to pay for transformations at all. If you can get through the game with this, it may save a LOT of time because you only need 25 tokens in total instead of 75 (or even less if you skip the higher-level transformations). And, while you're going to the Click Clock Wood puzzle, you can always return to Treasure Trove Cove to input "NOBONUS" and get rid of the Washing Machine, if you want.
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Eh, but consider all the time it takes to run back to Banjo's house and complete ALL those puzzles. The other thing to keep in mind about the washing machine is that it can't use safety boots or speed shoes, but it doesn't need the safety boots because it isn't affected by hazardous terrain. So you'd just be missing out on a couple of jiggies that might need the speed shoes if you didn't get them beforehand.
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That's true. It might just be quicker to get the however many Mumbo Tokens (probably 30-40 once you get done with it). Anyone know how long it would take to do all of the puzzles?
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Are the puzzles even emulated well?
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Well, I haven't been able to find a plugin that will do it correctly. Mupen64 using the Glide64 plugin shows blank white instead of a moving picture, for example.
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And that's with Copy Framebuffer to RDRAM turned on?
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I think the puzzles will also emulate correctly (albeit very slowly) if you enable "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM" in the Advanced tab of the graphics settings of Jabo's D3D8 1.6. Would it really save time to do them, though? edit: Apparently Bag of Magic Food beat me to it.
Post subject: Re: Ideas on Transformation Skipping
Joined: 5/27/2005
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qqwref wrote:
A little transformation synopsis: 1. Mumbo's Mountain - Termite (5 tokens). 2 Jiggies, 6 notes necessary, 6 notes made easier. 2. Bubblegloop Swamp - Alligator (10 tokens). 1 Jiggy, 6 notes necessary, 1 Jinjo and a bunch of notes made easier. 3. Freezeezy Peak - Walrus (15 tokens). 3 (!) Jiggies necessary, 9 notes made easier. 4. Mad Monster Mansion - Pumpkin (20 tokens). 2 Jiggies, 5 notes necessary, quite a few notes made easier. Required (grr) for unlocking Rusty Bucket Bay (?). 5. Click Clock Wood - Bee (25 tokens). 2 (?) Jiggies necessary. Only active in Spring. The optimum transformations to skip would probably be the Bee, Alligator, and maybe Termite.
Remember that with Termite, you can also speed up of takeing of those two jiggies (okey, three if you count the jinjo in there) near Mumbo's hut. Because Banjo does all that dancing when he gets a jiggie, that loses quite some time, when the Termite just graps 'em an you can continue on immediately. Just like Marshmallow does in his speedrun on SDA.
Which run should I encode next? :)
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Oh, yeah. And that applies to all the transformations, so someone should look into that.
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Well, because of the low cost of the Termite transformation, it's probably beneficial to get it anyway. That Jiggy thing is a good idea, though. Not to mention those underwater notes.
Joined: 5/27/2005
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Location: Turku, Finland
About a week ago I dusted my old N64 out from closet and played through Banjo-Kazooie 100%. Just for fun. And well, also to remind me of all the places, shortcuts, etc. The ingame clock told me it took me 10h to get it 100%. I myself though it would have been a little longer because it's been years since i've played anything in real N64 console. While I was playing, I noted one jiggy we can all agree on, which should be left out. And that is the Eyrie the Eagle jiggie (in Click Clock Wood). To get it, you must break it's egg in summer, feed him 5 catepillars in summer (which you must all collect around CCW), feed 10 more catepillars to him in fall and finally chat with him in winter to get on single jiggie. The gathering of those catepillars already take pretty much time, but you must also watch banjo feeding them to Eyrie one at a time.
Which run should I encode next? :)
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Are you SURE it's slower than all the others?
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Well, I havn't tested anything but after collecting every jiggy in the game, that one felt definitely the longest. Another jiggy that seemed a bit long, was the one in Gobi's Valley, where you have to fly through those circles (on top of The Ancient Ones). Althou' in TAS that can be speeded up quite a lot with the dive skill (B while flying). So don't rule out this jiggy just yet. And what comes to the transformations. I think the Alligator/Crocodile would be the best choise to left out. That's ofcourse if any of them will be left out. The reason for this is because you need it actually to only one jiggy (as qqwref has told before), and that jiggy will also take quite much time. (It's the one where you have to eat those red and white things faster than the red croc). The bee would also be nice to skip becuase it takes so much Mumbo Tokens (25). But if you don't take the bee, you'll miss atleast 3 jiggies. One in the highest branch of "springtree", Jinjo jiggie because you need to get one of them from the beenest in spring and the witch switch jiggie. Ofcourse all of this is just speculations which need to bee tested, but atleast we got something to start the testings with ;) (And btw, Kitsune, would you mind correcting the topic. It's supposed to be Banjo-Kazooie)
Which run should I encode next? :)
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I wish more people cared about proper hyphenation
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Joined: 10/24/2005
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
I wish more people cared about proper hyphenation
I wish that more people would care about the proper use of a period.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
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Periods are overrated I mean it's all, "Oh, it's the end of the sentence? That's all?!"
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my sister has too many periods and right now, I don't have any