I'm considering not exactly doing a speed-run of Rock 'N Roll Racing, but more of a show-off beating the game on Warrior difficulty with the Marauder (never changing cars). It would still be a tool-assisted run so I can upgrade and max out the Marauder in as few races as possible, but I'm considering leaving in some of the human elements for the sake of drama. I cannot imagine watching someone take every turn perfectly and manipulating the AI to mess up and not fire at you would be fun.
I would use the Marauder for a few reasons:
a) It's probably something few people have tried in NHO and Inferno.
b) The jump jets have limited uses, but when they do, it's interesting. I know a few tracks on Bogmire, NHO, and Inferno where you can effectively use the jump jets.
c) Due to having weaker missiles, weaker armor, and no nitros, you must use various different tactics to get in the lead and stay in the lead. For instance, strategically positioning your car to force the AI to ram you for a boost, and "blind" (too far ahead to see on screen, but you can still hit them) shooting at the AI.
What do you think? Good? Bad?
For a casual video of what it might be like (Marauder in Inferno):
http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/EP9_RnRR.zip
I didn't use any save states or anything. I only made a few errors here, but I still pulled from behind. The last two laps are really boring since I'm just cruising in first. On the first lap you can see me make interesting use of the jump jet (I also do this on the other laps, but I don't nail the timing to get smooth landings).
Well Rock 'n Roll Racing is another game in which I think that style and entertainment in the races is more worth than speed. I think your idea is great to complete the entire game with the weakest/slowest car. I highly doubt you could survive with this car in Inferno where all your opponents already have maxed out Havacs (best car in the game) on real conditions so it will surely be entertaining to watch if you still manage it with tools.
However I would strongly recommend you to use nitsujas improved Snes9x emulator instead of ZSNES as it has much more great features for movie-making.
Good luck with this project.
Oh, I've already beaten it with the Marauder on a casual run. It's definitely doable (see the video I linked for an example). The most trouble was in NHO with the slippery conditions.
I've also written a guide on GameFAQs for beating the game on Warrior difficulty. I mention the Marauder challenge in there.
This will be my first attempt at a "speed-run". I thought it'd be interesting to start using ZSNESW now that re-recording is enabled. I'll try ZSNES first and move onto SNES9x if it's not working out.
Well, then you must be really good in this game doing it on console. But just for your information, if you want to submit your movie to this site when its done you have to use Snes9x because ZSNES is not acceptable here currently. Anyway I will gladly watch it no matter on which emulator.
I still did it on an emulator and not a console, but I played it like on a console. That is, I did not repeatedly save and load states or slowdown emulation (I still used save states at times).
Good point about ZSNES not acceptable here yet. With that in mind, I'll use the modified Snes9x.
I'll start playing around with Snes9x's movie functions until I get the hang of it and a good configuration, then perhaps start a "pilot run". I'll post updates as they come along.
I assume it also took newcomers to TAS' many re-records to get the hang of things. I had a lot of trouble at first to even get through the menus at a good speed. One of the problems is when I'm running the emu at 24% or less I have a lot of difficulty recognizing when a key I pressed has been read. Any advice there? My current solution is to rapidly press the next key before it needs to be pressed. I know doing this leads to MANY more keypresses than necessary.
Also, I have even more trouble navigating the car at 24% or less speed. I played around with it a bit and jumped up to 49% emu speed. At that speed I can handle the car better.
Finally, I'm getting tired of replaying the whole movie so I can re-record. Can I save state at a certain part of the movie so I can start the movie playing there, then do the pause-save-load-unpause when needed?
On a less serious note, it sucks that playing the game at slow speeds ruins the music and sound effects. Those were some of the best parts of the game. I've certainly learned TAS's aren't very exciting to do. The results are interesting at least.
So far I've only completed the first lap and a half. My own critiques and comments so far...
1) The delay at the start of the race is the standard strategy for early warrior difficulty stages. The AI is very hostile and tend to blow you up quickly if you lead-foot the pedal with them at the start, so you stick behind for a second and let them hurt eachother while firing your missile(s).
2) On the first lap it'd be impossible for me to catch the money pickups on the first turn unless I do luck manipulations. I'd rather not do luck manipulations on this type of run. I initially tried for the money pickups there and accidentally had an interesting turn of events. You'll see.
3) About half-way through the track on the first lap, there's a money pickup in front of Rip that I could potentially get by shoving him into the left wall. I'm thinking of re-recording from that point.
You can check my current progress here:
http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/rrr1lap.zip
Any further critiques? I know it's sloppy so far. This is not my final run yet, I'm just getting the hang of doing TAS' and want to make sure I first have a good handle on what I'm doing before finalizing anything.
So far it's been taking me roughly 30-45 minutes to finish each track. Now that I'm becoming more and more experienced with doing the TAS, I imagine it'll stay closer to the 30 minute region. With that in mind, it'll probably take me at least a few weeks assuming I average putting in somewhere around 8-10 hours a week.
The current status of my run can be downloaded here:
http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/rrr2.zip
I've now finished the first two tracks on Chem VI and upgraded missiles twice. Right after I blow up Viper on the 3rd track is where I will start re-recording. I continued playing another lap from there just for fun (not tool-assisted). Check out what I did to Shred on the 2nd lap!
I'm finally starting to enjoy doing this run and am happy with the results so far. I try my best to keep the menus optimized. I hope the speed is acceptable for that, I'd hate to have to re-do earlier segments because some of the menus take up another couple frames than they need to. This isn't a speed-run afterall.
For some explanations of why I'm doing what I'm doing...
1) I do not avoid getting hit all the time. I will take damage if it doesn't harm my final placement (or money pickups) and it either is entertaining or sets up an interesting situation.
2) I do not avoid oil slicks all the time. I do this for a few reasons. When I run over some of the oil slicks (usually unintentionally), I improv how to handle the next turn. Many times the oil slicks will shift your car so it has a good angle at the next turn. I also hit some oil slicks to vary the play a little more. And finally, sometimes hitting the oil slicks sets up interesting situations, such as me slamming into the AI.
3) At the end of both tracks I've thrown in some stunts for fun. I've always been fond of forcing my car into a 180 handbrake turn at the finish line and firing a fury of missiles at my opponents.
Since I really am improvising my run quite a bit, I haven't planned out everything down the line. I should at least consider which upgrades to get first. Right now I'm thinking since this is a TAS, I don't really need the armor or tires yet. I'm going straight for missiles.
Right now I have enough missiles (3) to take out any opponent on a single lap. Next upgrade will be engine. After then, probably another couple missiles. I remember Grinder usually takes a couple more hits from a Marauder's missiles than Viper.
Also, to keep down on the repetitiveness in the game, I will be advancing to the next level as soon as I have enough points. This is really good news for Chem VI since it will be the least challenging and probably least entertaining planet.
I'd love some feedback on my progress so far.
One of the problems is when I'm running the emu at 24% or less I have a lot of difficulty recognizing when a key I pressed has been read.
Well, there's always a delay. Just make sure that you're holding the keys BETWEEN frames.
EscapePlan9 wrote:
Finally, I'm getting tired of replaying the whole movie so I can re-record. Can I save state at a certain part of the movie so I can start the movie playing there, then do the pause-save-load-unpause when needed?
Yes, use read-only mode.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
The movie looks good so far. Only thing you could use as a change is to sometimes jump over corner-edges to make a nice shortcut. The thing you did in end of lap 2 is also nice. I would recommend you to not keep the lead all the time but intentionally (make it look accidentally though) let the opponents ahead to catch them up in a entertaining way and winning the race just in the last seconds. Keep up the good work and bring action as much as possible there.
Also it's a must to change the planet as early as possible when you get the needed points to not waste time.
Also for perfect menu-handling use "Frame-Advance" insead of slowdowns as you can find the asolute first frame to press the buttons there. It's the most precise feature for slowdowning. Read "Using Emulator Tools" Page to learn more about the features including Frame Advance of Snes9x.
Be sure when you load a state in read-only mode it will only playback the movie from this point (I use it always on the "F1" key as a replay save. To record further you have to make another savestate just before your mistake or whatever (for example on F2-F9 keys), then playback the movie again but WITHOUT read-only and load it before your mistake to record further.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I know from casual playing that using jump jets to cut corners rarely ever saves any time. You usually just slam into the wall. Perhaps I can time it just right and it'll save me a couple seconds.
I'll work on ways to make it look like I accidentally fell behind and had to catch up, and just try to make it more entertaining in general.
edit: I'm also thinking of delaying the engine upgrade. I probably won't need it yet. I'll max out the missiles first.
I put in another hour into this run today and have completed another track. I also re-did the 2nd track to make it far more entertaining.
I decided not to re-do the first track because there really isn't much else I can do with only one missile, and plus, it's good to have a couple tracks where I simply dominate the opposition and casually cruise in first place. Can't always have the come-from-behind victories.
In the 2nd and 3rd track I am intentionally over-aggressive and do some risky moves. In the 2nd track, I end up temporarily placing myself in 4th place because of this, and end up with a split second victory over Viper. In the 3rd track, I perfectly time a jump jet to catapult myself into first. I really didn't think it could be done, but I was wrong! I originally was saying "screw it, I have to re-do it anyway" before I attempted the jump. I figured I'd probably just jump into oblivion anyway, but then I land and my mouth just drops open. I didn't even have to re-try that part once! I still cannot believe it everytime I watch it.
I still have to work on getting the frame advance technique down. I end up getting impatient and skipping too many frames.
So anyways, you can check out the modifications here:
http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/rrr101.zip
Now that I'm happy where this is headed, I'll only put in the more significant updates.
I'm still pondering what to do after I max out the missiles. With this being a TAS, engine won't be as important. Perhaps I should grab another jump jet or two first? Those could come in handy. I know oil slicks are worthless, so I can forget those. If I recall correctly, extra jump jets are only $6 or $7 each. I can easily buy a couple more of those and then go straight to upgrading the engine and armor. Since engine and armor's prices progressively increase per upgrade, I'm going to switch off between engine upgrade and armor upgrade until they are both maxed. At least that's what I'm currently thinking.
Any suggestions or feedback?
edit:
Saturn: Also it's a must to change the planet as early as possible when you get the needed points to not waste time.
As a reminder, this is not a speed-run. This run is meant specifically for entertainment. Still, the end result will be me advancing through divisions and planets as soon as possible, but only because it will be less repetitive that way.
Nice stuff, EscapePlan.
I'm not sure what you should do about the armor/engine dilemma. I'd say get the armor, but my priority isn't so much to win races as it is to make other people lose. Armor is good for that because it allows me to hit the breaks when someone is behind me, causing them to stop, and me to go faster. (AKA "the jackass manoeuver")
Track 4 would have a nice jump or two if it didn't toss you to 4th place for using them to your advantage. Assuming that fact is consistent through the entire game, I don't think jump jets are worth buying.
Inspired by this movie, I started one of my own novelty movie wherein I pick an enemy in the first race, (viper/purple) and then try to ruin his career every race thereafter.
"Viper is headed the wrong way!"
Heh heh heh.
Wow, 3rd track was awesome! This is exactly the optimal jump I always wanted to see. 2nd one was also great with the catching up. Of course its better to throw in some absolute flawless and dominating laps where you drive everyone into the ground as a variation.
Changing the planet as soon as possible has not always something to do with a speedrun. As you mentioned it would just be too boring and repetitive. Changing the division or planet always mean switching to a higher class where it becomes more and more faster and more difficult for you and this is exactly where to show action and entertainment together with more variation.
I agree with buying some of the attack-items (Missiles, Jump-Jets and Oil-thrower) first as you can use them more often for more variation in the races. I would buy the new engine in the next class to not lose the speed to the opponents.
Good luck in the further recordings EscapePlan, you do it very well so far.
EDIT: Dromiceius, your one also looks great. Now you can challenge/learn of each other in a competitional way.
Dromiceius:
Track 4 would have a nice jump or two if it didn't toss you to 4th place for using them to your advantage. Assuming that fact is consistent through the entire game, I don't think jump jets are worth buying.
They very seldomly are useful, like I mentioned earlier. However, they still have their uses. You use it once in your video to hop over some missiles (and when you beat the game, you always see a clip of someone doing the exact same thing with a Marauder - then hitting the turbo), and I use it once on the 3rd track to catapult myself into first. There's no other way I could have possibly gained a first there without using the jump jet, given the situation at that time (i.e. me spinning 180 to fire at Viper, me messing up by not doing the "jackass maneuver" to Shred before the last jump, and me hitting the oil slick sliding into the wall).
Dromiceius, I really enjoyed watching your demo! It gave me some more ideas. How could I neglect forcing your opposition the wrong way? Your 3rd track was great! I'll force the opposition the wrong way a few times throughout the run. Wait 'til you see what I casually have been doing on NHO! Right before those crazy consecutive jumps over the gaps...
On another note, if anyone wants to experience what it's like to drive a maxed out Marauder on Inferno, use this password: X197 G5Q6 XWJ!
That was from my casual run and first attempt at winning with the Marauder.
I'll try my best to keep Chem VI as entertaining as possible. Only five more tracks there! Then I have my first semi-challenge: Grinder and his neverending nitros. Thankfully the AI is amazing stupid and slows down through consecutive turns as well as runs into the green sludges EVERY TIME. Oh yeah, and my barrage of missiles helps too.
So I've been thinking.. you know how most submitted runs here have some objectives, I need to clarify mine. Since I've been improvising so frequently with this run, I have numerous objectives, it seems. So far this is what I have:
* Places first on every track
* Plays on the hardest difficulty (Warrior difficulty)
* Uses the worst car throughout the game
* Advances to the next division and planet once enough points are accumulated
* Not a speed-run
* Takes damage to create entertaining situations
* Slows down or loses traction to create entertaining situations
* Various stunts are done for entertainment
Dromiceius, I really enjoyed watching your demo! It gave me some more ideas. How could I neglect forcing your opposition the wrong way? Your 3rd track was great! I'll force the opposition the wrong way a few times throughout the run. Wait 'til you see what I casually have been doing on NHO! Right before those crazy consecutive jumps over the gaps...
I discovered in my next segment that hills are also very effective for screwing people over. I sent Grinder rolling backwards down the big hill near the ramp in track 3. I guess it's too steep to climb, so he had to go the wrong way.
Good luck with the rest of Chem VI. I hope yours doesn't turn out as boring as mine did. I let it drag on a few races too long, I think.
As for the jump-jets, I found out that they can be used to leap onto ramps! I would have actually used that in chem/track 3 if I were willing to place 4th for the little stunt. I might actually do that next time as my current run has come to an end, desyncing around frame 94000.
Actually I have been waiting a long time for someone to make this TAS or showoff or what ever you wanna call it. :D
This is going to be soooo interesting when it's done.
On a side note: Wasn't Biker Mice from March pretty much the same thing as RRR? Could be mice (<-haha. Bad typo/bad joke) to see a TAS of that game as well.
How about just "tool assisted run" (or TAR?)
The biker mice from... august? ;)
The game is very similar. I guess Interplay sold Konami rights to use the engine or something like that. The physics and contols are much the same, but they jazzed it up quite a bit.
Last night I finished up another 3 tracks. Only 2 more tracks left in Chem VI! Ever since I've had at least 5 missiles, I've been trying my best to use all of them before the end of each lap. This has resulted in numerous re-records to spice things up.
Dromiceius:
I discovered in my next segment that hills are also very effective for screwing people over. I sent Grinder rolling backwards down the big hill near the ramp in track 3. I guess it's too steep to climb, so he had to go the wrong way.
lol. Nice! I'll have to look into this.
Drom:
Good luck with the rest of Chem VI. I hope yours doesn't turn out as boring as mine did. I let it drag on a few races too long, I think.
Wow, you're working through these stages a lot quicker than I am! That or you're putting in more time than me. It's still taking me roughly 30-40 minutes per track.
I'll check out your current run now. And then Biker Mice from Mars... never played that game.
edit: Drom, the link you gave for your current run was the exact same run as you posted earlier. The game ends for me at frame 29595 with you jump jetting off the first track in Division A.
edit2: I just finished Chem VI. I sure took my pretty time on that last track in Division A! I just couldn't be satisfied with the results. I put a lot of effort into making Chem VI entertaining, which is quite the difficult task.
I'm now going into Drakonis with maxed out missiles, one more jump jet, and once upgraded armor and engine.
You can view my run up to the first track in Drakonis here:
http://detachd9.homestead.com/files/video/rrrCHEM.zip
It's too late now, but I wish I could re-do the first track. Although it's fine to occasionally have a track where I just casually demolish the competition, I don't think it's a good "introduction" idea. To me, those kinds of tracks are intermissions from the chaos that usually ensues. I've watched through my entire run a couple times to see how it's coming together, and it's almost like there's a distinct personality change right after track 1. I suddenly become more risky and aggressive. The biggest reason for that change was from having another missile.
But even if I re-did track 1, I'm not sure exactly what I'd do. I'd probably end up trying to kill the opposition by slamming them into walls (which is never a reliable way to destroy an opponent in this game), since I only have one missile.
I also quickly glanced through published runs to find other ones done just for entertainment. I only could find Gradius, Street Fighter, and Tecmo Super Bowl. On the positive side, my run will stand out from the rest. On the negative side, I'm not sure if it meets the criteria necessary to be published.
Nonetheless, I'm still enjoying making this TAR, so I'll continue to update it.
I remember I used to play this game like mad, I gave a look at this WIP. It was entertainming at some points, but the way you play with getting bumping into wall, and same old attempts (turn around and shoot, getting bump to goal, etc) are losing my interest. I felt it was somewhat repetitive.
I can give you some idea to make it more interesting.
Not getting bump into wall for a lap or whole track.
Hopping all-over (as much as you can) for a lap or whole track.
When a race start, sit there as long as possible, then go crazy fast to final lap as close match. (maybe save this for last track?)
Thanks for the feedback. You're right, a lot of it is repetitive. I'll work on trying to vary it more. I like the idea of zig-zagging and hopping all over. The hopping one I cannot go too crazy with since I currently only have two jump jets. However, I recently made some nice "hops" on the first track in Drakonis.
My bumps into the wall are an "accidental" way to allow the AI to catch up so I can gain more attack bonuses. The first track in Chem VI division B, which I found most uninteresting outside of the first lap, was me driving cleanly around the entire course.
If I sit back at the start of the race and wait too long, I will allow the AI to grab all the money pickups. Part of the reason I am getting so many attack bonuses and picking up all the money pickups is to max out the Marauder as soon as possible. For the sake of variation, I'll definitely do this at some point. Preferably after I've upgraded my engine a little more. At that point in time, I'll drive through the course flawlessly to catch up.
On Division A of Chem VI there's a time where I intentionally sit back to let Viper pass me before obliterating him. That's one of the only times where I am making it obvious I am allowing the AI to catch up. To make it look accidental, I've done things like turning around to collect more money pickups, being overly aggressive, bumping into walls, taking turns wide, losing track on oil slicks, etc.
I'll attempt to incorporate some of your suggestions and invent some new ones.
