Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Unfortunately, the link you gave seems to be down. If you could e-mail me (omega@avalanchestudios.net) that ZIP file, I'll upload it for you.
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
It's not working!? I have no problems downloading it...hmm, well, I'll send it to you directly, and you can mirror that for me in case Geocities screws other people, too.
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
Joined: 4/16/2004
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Location: Finland
Works fine for me but only if I copy and paste the address to the address bar.
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Joined: 5/29/2004
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Oh yeah, Geocities can be funny like that... with some browsers...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707
hmm.. there is my new rockman2 uptade.. ! new route is flashman - heatman,airman etc. big thanks to hanzou becouse he copypasted my movements to "my" new run.. :) this game is hard and nice i have always dreamed to make TAS for rm2.. my interest in rm2 born over year ago.. when i saw morimoto's & FinalFighter's movie.. i was thinking just like "WTF is this real !?" and i trained almost every glitch/zippingtech... my friends just said im crazy becouse i played over 10 - 20 h mm2 in day.. (heh i made full-TASes with USA "easyversion.. and i challenged with my friend Sami.)and i made some AVI files for them.. heh i contacted to Bisqwit and i asked something about mm2 techniques longtime ago.. but enought talking.. my new WIP is OUT http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/700/ and thanks to Baxter & Vatchern.. if im sure they told something about this new route ! :) heh + i discovered "new tactic in heatmanstage"
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Here's an alternative link.
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
Hey, I know you guys are working on a speed run video of the fastest possible time with these bugs, but I'm also wondering if anybody is willing to help me make one giant "bugs and glitches" video once that is all done. I think something similar to the famous Marios Bros crazygodtechnique video might be a hit with MM fans. Maybe consider this sometime?
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Shinryuu wrote:
heh + i discovered "new tactic in heatmanstage"
Actually, that Item-3 tactic was discovered by Kopernical shortly after the release of the latest video by Morimoto and Finalfighter.
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Omega.. im talking about weaponchange thing.. in longteleportblock room
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Shinryuu wrote:
Omega.. im talking about weaponchange thing.. in longteleportblock room
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice. Pretty nice!
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
What? You know how to do that? Well, how? I'd like to see what's beyond that ladder, and if I can consistently replicate that Item-3 dropping, I can finish my video of that stage. Also, it seems that some of the videos were lost and are gone...most of the ones in Bubble Man's stage showing the 2 zipping shortcuts, and the becoming invincible videos, although I think 1 survived...looks like I'll have to remake the lost ones.
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
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heh.. :)
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
Hey, I forgot to show pics of the errors I get when trying to use FCE...I'll show them next time. Also, I blew out the Mpeg versions of the videos I made, because the MPEG versions were so horrible, they're not worth it, especially given the huge amount of space they take up.
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
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Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
I haven't watched your movies yet, but here are answers to many of your questions. Regarding crashing the game in wily4 according to your description, yes it is related to how Shinryuu also crashes the game there. Shinryuu's scrolling moves both the physical and visible screen to point to nowhere, so the game crashes. Your trick brings only the physical screen to that void, but this is sufficient. There are a lot of files in your zip. Can you tell us which one has this crash bomb glitch? That sounds like a key innovation here and it would save a couple frames on that bossfight. However, it won't save time on later boss fights because crash bombs are not used afterwards. The following bosses have been seen to get glitched graphics after doing heatbug (a misnomer that refers to left-scrolling in the boss room): airman quickman metalman mechadragon alien robot As far as we know, the following bosses can be damaged but are not visible after scrolling: heatman woodman bubbleman flashman The only boss that retains his normal graphics after the screen scrolls: crashman If you really want to ask why, there are naturally some characteristic variables (palettes, tile tables, etc) to define the graphics in each boss room. Boss fights weren't meant to go through room scrolling, so these variables can get messed up in the process since the programming might depend on them not changing before the end of the boss fight. I can't yet offer any deeper explanation for this nor as to why most bosses end up with the single-hit corner while most don't. And likewise with the room-shaking points. The item3 trick that Shinryuu and Omega are talking about is something else. We don't yet know a way to use item3 in place (except when you're up against a wall). I haven't figured out a way to cross the pit without item1. The page that Shinryuu linked a while back has some pictures beyond that point, but since I can't read Japanese it's not clear to me whether that guy used cheat codes or not. If you'd like to see a video of what happens past there, watch this: heatbug_finish.fcm. I created it by patching in item1. Shuttertech might not be fully understood, but through extensive testing we now have a pretty good idea of where it can and can't be done, and know the various points where it would be done in Shinryuu's future run. A "full amazing run" for Rockman 2 could be pretty cool, but unfortunately it's also an enormous challenge that isn't any easier than the standard TAS. In addition to glitch worlds it would require almost all of the tricks shown in the regular run. Many of these techniques are very difficult to pull off optimally, and right now the regular run alone seems to be quite a handful. Yeah, it would really help if you could run FCEU. That would allow you to watch some of the movies in this thread and better see what we're talking about. Also, you'll probably have an easier time making movies in FCEU rather than Nesticle and then we'll have an easier time watching them.
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
I noticed you said Crash Bombs aren't used afterwards...how do you bring down Wily's ship then? Bubble Man can sometimes make it through okay (see bubble and stuck70 videos), and sometimes he falls offf the screen (bubble2 video). Also, how do you go through Crash Man's room? My method just leaves me falling in a pit, and I can't open up his wall the shutter tech way, so I'm anxious to find out. Someday when I get FCE to work, I'll check out the video you posted by patching item 1 into heat Man's stage, as well as the other FCE movies. As for the Item 3 bug, sometimes when I launched it, it just dropped rather than being thrown upwards, but since I did no special button presses, I'm still trying to find out how to constantly do this. It works standing or jumping. Well, like I said, I'll post those errors the next time I get a chance and see if you guys can help me to get it running. I even tried the version on bisqwit's site that allows the resuming of movies, but it crashes the same. As for finding out which movies do what, inside the "screwed" folder should be a "secret stages" folder. This is the main one, although I haven't been able to organize this ZIP since it's not done yet. Inside the secret stages folder is a video description document that outlines the videos in all the subfolders. Stuck94 and stuck95 show the crash bomb bug. Also in Level Layouts are drawn maps, as well as a few screenshots, of the areas beyond the RM stages, mainly the glitch worlds. edit-I have another question...when you mentioned "heatbug", you said it was left scrolling. How do you get it to scroll to the left? For me, it always scrolls to the right. Also, for me, Air Man always turns invisible, so I'm anxious to see how you make him stay visible. And I can't even do any scrolling with those other bosses, so I'd like to know how you do that shutter tech in their rooms. Asking questions about earlier posts, I noticed someone said about elevating at the top of a ladder by pressing up and down at the same time, but for me this doesn't work. Mega Man just stands there. I even used FADV to make sure they were being pressed together, and still no luck. Also, I tried that trick for freezing Metal Blades, and it isn't working either. Is there something wrong with Nesticle that prevents this? Or is it only doable in Rock Man 2, not Mega Man 2? Another question that Mr. Bisqwit himself answered, although I can't understand entirely, is why Mega Man's appearance screws up when shooting a fireball/taking hit at same time. His reply was something about scanlines, although I don't have the reply right here. Can anybody explain it better? You can see the example in the fireball video.
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
Joined: 3/30/2004
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Location: Heather's imagination
Nesticle disables opposite directions.
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I watched your stuck94, and clearly something special is going on there. Even if you had shot the bomb by tapping B, normally at that proximity it would stick in the wall rather than killing the boss immediately. Are you able to do this consistently? It isn't working for me on FCEU. Does it depend on whether you're playing in easy mode (like in your movie) or difficult mode? (edit: I had assumed this was the reason the crash walls weren't there when you entered, but Boco explained to me that this is actually probably done by destroying the walls, dying, then coming back to the boss room.) If you get item3 to actually drop straight down, does it just bounce up and down in one place endlessly? You know it doesn't start floating upwards unless it hits something on the side. The game never actually scrolls to the left. By left-scrolling I mean scrolling by touching the shutter on the left side of the screen, even though animation actually still scrolls to the right. And yeah, a lot of emulators don't support up+down or left+right. Even the FCEU and Snes9x versions used on this site had to be specially modified to allow that. edit: As for your question about how to get to Crashman's spaceroom, performing the scroller trick on bosses other than Heatman or Airman is very difficult. You need plenty of patience to repeatedly attempt it as many as hundreds of times, or get a robot like Bisqbot to do it for you. edit: Regarding Wily's vehicle, finalfighter destroys it with metal blades. You should watch the run if you haven't already!
Joined: 1/13/2006
Posts: 109
stuck94-I can consistently replicate this, though I haven't tried it in hard mode, but it should work. Don't try to shoot the last bomb...instead start holding the B button just before you can normally shoot it again, then run into the final gun. You also have to wait for the right time, normally when you can fire another bomb, but before the explosion ends, before you do this, else it won't work. On the same frame you get hurt, you see the "poof" thing with it. Note-use Frame Advance to take a good long look. The videos will still work okay when you do this. Oh yeah, I destroyed the walls one life earlier...made it easier to do the glitch world tricks without them in my way. Item 3-it doesn't drop STRAIGHT down...it still travels in front of you. The important thing is, normally when you use it, it begins in an upward motion in front of you, but in the tries I am trying to reproduce, is getting it to start out with a downward motion moving out in front of you. I can use Item 2 to get near the left wall, and a screen wrap bug will allow item 3 to grip the left side of the screen. I should have included my pics, but that ZIP file was large as it is, so I'll bring the pics next time to help show these things. If I can get Item 3 to start off downwards and am the right distance from the left side of the screen, I can get on top of it and ride it up to that ladder. Shutter bug-ah, I see what you mean now. So you guys call those gates "shutters"...that clears up a lot of stuff now. Finalfighter's movie-well, I can't view AVIs on these computers-they don't have that codec, and being lab computers, I can't install stuff. Are his Metal blade hits actually quicker? I thought in hard mode, it took a full 28 hits to wreck that thing...are you sure the Crash Bombs aren't faster? One more thing...doing that shutter trick on Bubble Man is relatively easy, too. Although sometimes it may take some time, I have massive success by firing 3 Item 1s at the start and using them and his bubbles to cause lag, then it's easy going through, although it's doable without the lag.
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Did you say Famtasia did or didn't work for you?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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Joined: 10/14/2005
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Here is how I understand that boss fight: Metal blades work on both forms of the Wily machine while crashbombs only work on the first (or maybe it was the second?). Even if using crashbombs are faster to defeat one of them, it takes too much time to switch weapons. By the way I managed to reproduce your crashbomb trick: crashbomb_glitch.fcm (for those of you out there who can actually run FCEU). It actually saves more than just a couple frames since it can be done before the explosion animation has completed. Props to you for finding this glitch. Food's got a point. If Nesticle works well on your computer and FCEU crashes, you're in the reverse situation compared to most of us. Famtasia will probably run okay for you. Perhaps are you running DOS or Windows 95/98/Me?
Joined: 1/13/2006
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Wait, crash bombs work on both, and if you do this trick with level 4, you can have 2 crash bombs left over, so there's not any switching in battle, unless it still isn't fast enough overall. -edit-running 98 SE, though crashes has left it in a less-than-normal operating situation. Like I said, it once worked okay, and I religiously used FCE, but Nesticle has always been my backup.
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
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Oh you're right. Crash bombs do work on the second form. However, when I tried starting with a full tank, I was completely out of crash bombs just after destroying the first form. You might get different results only because you're playing on easy mode. Another plus of finalfighter's route is that he's already switched to metal blades after destroying Flashman. I thought you said you were using lab computers? If those machines are separate from your problematic Windows 98SE computer, you could try running emulators on them (no install required)...
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
Try throwing the crash bomb just below Wily's window while he's moving away from you. Multiple hits, anyone? :) I do this regularly in normal play, actually...it's quite easily possible to take down each form with a single bomb, lol. =P I dunno if this would save enough time though, since you'd have to wait for Wily to back up, which would be a short while...
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hanzou wrote:
By the way I managed to reproduce your crashbomb trick: crashbomb_glitch.fcm (for those of you out there who can actually run FCEU). It actually saves more than just a couple frames since it can be done before the explosion animation has completed. Props to you for finding this glitch.
Interesting. Some defining aspects: The game lags for 1 frame exactly 1 frame after you take damage in this spot. It could have the same cause as the horizontal scrolling trick. Object variables being copied from other object due to lag.
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crashbomb_glitch.fcm is really nice. However, I do not succeed in other places. If Bisqbot etc. are not used, it seems to be severe.