Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjavík, Ísland
Even with savestates and whatnot, it is still extremely difficult to get even close to the world record times. You'd need intimate knowledge of the game before even beginning to imagine how to work out a TAS.
To play it as fast as possible can to get very boring soon I think. Maybe there must contain variations. Some can be played as fast as possible others should play as slow as possible and still get the first place. That you fall long behind all others as far as possible and try to reach the first place.
Start later. Get interesting items to make it more entertainment.
Just play as fast as possible sound not good for this game and it can be, that it is to boring this way.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run)
WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB)
Matty
What about doing a 2-player run in GP mode? I think you're more likely to get interesting items in 2-player even if both players in 1st/2nd place, and the game doesn't run slower since it renders as split-screen anyway in 1-player. (It would probably have to be Bowser + DK Junior.)
Sure, it'd be harder, but probably more likely to result in an entertaining movie, and less likely to be criticized as being too similar to non-assisted time trial times.
Some Japanese guy made some TASs for SMK, though I don't have them on my computer anymore since my hard drive crashed. Unfortunately there are no smvs, just mpegs, and they don't show what the times are at the ends of the laps, but they're clearly faster than the WRs.
Some Japanese guy made some TASs for SMK, though I don't have them on my computer anymore since my hard drive crashed. Unfortunately there are no smvs, just mpegs, and they don't show what the times are at the ends of the laps, but they're clearly faster than the WRs.
Where would one find something like that? What do you even search for? I'd like to see.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3518
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Blublu wrote:
Even with savestates and whatnot, it is still extremely difficult to get even close to the world record times. You'd need intimate knowledge of the game before even beginning to imagine how to work out a TAS.
Thats why I would love to see Mr. Fried working on this but so far he's been reluctant.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I'm also thinking of doing a TAS for this game in the next time maybe as I know it pretty well too.
However there is one question: Should we make a exception for this game and use a SRAM save-file ONLY to have the 150cc mode enabled because without one you can only play on 100cc and this is slower and surely not that entertaining and hard.
Here's something for anyone that wants to attempt to TAS or just analyze the game:
Player 1's speed is stored in the 2 bytes at memory address 7E10EA.
Player 2's speed is stored in the 2 bytes at memory address 7E11EA.
So, you can set Snes9x to watch these values and use them as a very accurate speedometer. It goes to 0 when stopped, and the initial maximum speed of Bowser or DKJ is about 1135.
So far, I've been a little surprised to find that:
- Each coin you collect increases your maximum speed
- Turning does not reduce your speed, even if you skid (of course taking short paths is still important)
- Colliding with another character or an obstacle such as a pipe does not reduce your speed at all if you are in the middle of an L/R button jump at the time
- When you do an L/R jump and turn, the behaviour is drastically different depending on whether you tap L/R for 1 frame or hold it for the duration of the jump. You'll keep going along a normal path if you tap it, but you'll swerve in mid-air in the opposite direction of the turning if you hold it. If your speed is above the max speed (from a speed boost) then for some reason this jump-swerving will also prevent your speed from decreasing as fast as it normally would.
- It's possible to get the speed boost at the starting line without waiting until the intended frame to press the accelerator. (But either way doesn't change the boost's speed, it just changes when the sound effects happen.)
- L/R jumping on its own doesn't affect your speed, so you can bounce repeatedly on a straightaway with no speed reduction. When going over sand or rough ground, being in the air prevents your speed from decreasing, but once you touch that ground then jumping more won't help.
Saturn wrote:
I'm also thinking of doing a TAS for this game in the next time maybe as I know it pretty well too.
However there is one question: Should we make a exception for this game and use a SRAM save-file ONLY to have the 150cc mode enabled because without one you can only play on 100cc and this is slower and surely not that entertaining and hard.
I would start from SRAM, with the gold medals necessary to unlock 150cc mode (which I agree would be better to play than 100cc mode). I think if the resulting movie is entertaining enough then an exception would be made for it, and if you're going to make this movie (and I hope someone does) then of course you'd want to make it entertaining anyway.
This is a great idea with the virtual speedometer, thanks nitsuja. Also thanks for the SRAM and the hints.
I'm not sure if I will do a TAS of Mario Kart soon as Super Metroid is currently my main project but as a break I could start one maybe in some weeks.
But if someone want to see a example on how to play Mario Kart in realtime to see some useful tricks and strategies check the Mario Kart Movie on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm in the skill-based section. It's a pure skill-based run in which I won all 4 cups in a row on 100cc pretty clear.
The speed increment from coins only applies upto 10 coins, no?
Andreas
This is written in the Mario Kart Guide at least, however I'm not sure if its true. I think the best way to find out is to use nitsujas speedometer trick.
As I played it for years I know this too about the 10 coins. I always have the feeling that you are faster. Maybe this was only a feeling, but I think it was official said from Nintendo too.
So better collect 10 coins as fast as possible, when you just play it the fastest way.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run)
WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB)
Matty
The speed increment from coins only applies upto 10 coins, no?
Yes, each coin increases your max speed by 5, up to a total of 50 extra speed units.
I wonder, if a 2-player run was done, could one player go for speed and the other for playing around and just barely getting 1st place? The only bad part about that would be the time between when the two players finish the last lap (I'm not sure how big a gap there would be considering the better items the other player is getting).
EDIT: Found another interesting thing: When you hit an obstacle or another player, not only does it not decrease your speed, but it actually stops your speed from decreasing even if it would normally go down. So you can ram into other players on purpose after a boost to maintain boosting speed for longer. Possibly 2 players could jump into each repeatedly to stay at boost speed indefinitely, although that would be really tricky to say the least.
Two players working together to get the fastest possible time would be incredibly exciting. If if that jumping-into-each-other trick doesn't work out, I'm sure there's a ton of ways the players could help each other. Aren't the item tables different for 1st and 2nd place? Then the players could take turns being in 1st place, so that they could get the better items 2nd place gives. Although I'd imagine planning and making this sort of TAS would be very difficult.
Even with savestates and whatnot, it is still extremely difficult to get even close to the world record times. You'd need intimate knowledge of the game before even beginning to imagine how to work out a TAS.
Thats why I would love to see Mr. Fried working on this but so far he's been reluctant.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3518
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I still disagree. Arent you amongst top 20-30 best players? I'd say you are more than qualified.
Edit:
And since when must one "know" about a game to begin working on it? Look at me, I started from zero when I first began working on Mega Man 4. I gradually thought of some routes, tested this and that and did a somewhat "ok" run. Combining what Nitsuja discovered with your Mario Kart ability, you are overqualified.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I'm ranked 24th now, and there's a huge difference between 1st and 24th, and SMK is a complicated game. Even if I was qualified, I don't think I'd have the patience for it since there are too many possibilities to try out at each turn. If anyone tries this, you should get someone in the top 5 to regularly watch the WIPs and give advice.
I'm ranked 24th now, and there's a huge difference between 1st and 24th
I think someone who is good at making tases will get better results than someone who is just good at playing the game, and has a high rank. I think it requires a different kind of skill. I do agree that general knowledge of the game helps, but this can be aquired quite easily (I'm not implying that making a tas of this game is easy).
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3518
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Michael Fried wrote:
I'm ranked 24th now, and there's a huge difference between 1st and 24th, and SMK is a complicated game. Even if I was qualified, I don't think I'd have the patience for it since there are too many possibilities to try out at each turn. If anyone tries this, you should get someone in the top 5 to regularly watch the WIPs and give advice.
You think its possible to convince someone in the top 5 to make a TAS?
Edit: Why are we forgetting Nitsuja? :) He's the one discovering those tricks as he's proven several times before he is a all-round player. No game is too big for him.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I would attempt this again but.. I have a big list already.
I would love to see this done also.
I think this is a job for one of the Ninja's to plan it out. I dont have the kind of skills to plan it.
I'm ranked 24th now, and there's a huge difference between 1st and 24th, and SMK is a complicated game. Even if I was qualified, I don't think I'd have the patience for it since there are too many possibilities to try out at each turn. If anyone tries this, you should get someone in the top 5 to regularly watch the WIPs and give advice.
You think its possible to convince someone in the top 5 to make a TAS?
Edit: Why are we forgetting Nitsuja? :) He's the one discovering those tricks as he's proven several times before he is a all-round player. No game is too big for him.
If you wanna try to talk one of them into it, make a topic about it here:
http://www.mariokart64.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=SMK
Edit: Btw keep in mind that if anyone plans on making a GP TAS, there are some other strategies and shortcuts besides what you'll see in the time trials videos.
