That's what I thought too. Gale Cut is a prety long animation.
But like Catastrophe said, he timed the second part with Sabin until the end and mine eded up quicker. I didn't bother testing but in my mind, Gale Cut seems longer than the Doom Fist and the dialogue Vargas says after it because Sabin needs to charge his ATB anyway.
For those who are interested, I encoded a side-by-side vid of Erim's & Catastrophe's latest WIP. I'm still deciding what format is the easiest for me to use to make these, but this one is wmv. If you need a player, Media Player Classic works great for me.
File Info:
Size: 328 MB
Length: 2:19:07
http://files.filefront.com/FF3_Dual_0503wmv/;5047922;;/fileinfo.html
Mine's 255 MB, H264 video, no audio. No download link right now though.
Yours isn't working for me.
For the record, at the moment of Number 128's death, Erim is ahead by about 3m15s, of which Catastrophe knowingly threw away ~38 seconds to change Locke's clothes. Results of using the sketch bug (?) and Kutan in the World of Ruin remain to be seen.
I'm downloading that now but I will seed it for.. ever. I'll close a couple of the DKC torrents if I have to since those usually take up most of my upload when any of them do. (I've uploaded Sami's DKC any% run over 50 times!)
Thank you Wandering Road for the Osmose correction. The 2 AP means one more battle I can't Smoke Bomb which I guess I'll just have to do. But I've also got a complete plan for the rest of the game that does not use sketch glitch items at all. Giving Terra all those spells to obtain the glitch items might not outweigh the benefit of having them. I'm going to do a test run all the way through Kefka to make sure I'm not wrong about the assumptions I'm making in my path. (The tenacles will be interesting!)
3.25 minutes during the first 120 minutes is alot of time. :( 2.75 minutes is also alot of time. In one sense it is less than three percent of the first half of the run. But that same amount of time is also 7000 frames, give or take. Seven thousand frames is alot even in FF6's scale. Apparently I lost half a second alone in the Esper World because I use turbo A instead of manually hitting each box. I'm going to stop using turbo A right now. I'm really worried because Kutan will never be faster than Celes in the WOR. I want the final difference to be under a minute, not like five minutes or God forbid 10 or 15 minutes. I'm seriously, seriously, seriously, considering going all the way back to the Flan battle before Ifrit, not doing it, and getting out of Vector soooo much faster. My #24 and #128 battles would be faster with the Earrings on Edgar instead, too. Maybe I can make up all the lost time right now.
I hope you at least try to abuse the sketch glitch. The will certainly be interesting and different to watch even if in the end it isn't faster.
I hope someone will combine all FF3 material once complete and make a 'highlight' video with key and interesting sequences (with boss fights, glitchs, tricks). The opera scene is nice but I don't need to see it for the 32th time. Nor do I enjoyl Figaro Castle and Esperworld cutscenes.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Jyzero wrote:
I hope you at least try to abuse the sketch glitch. The will certainly be interesting and different to watch even if in the end it isn't faster.
Jyzero!!! ^_^ One of the nice things about the sketch glitch, besides giving me an excuse for Rasp, is that it gives me "Oh crap" insurance. Can't manipulate a dodge for Edgar during the Tentacles battle? No problem! I've got 30 Paladin Shlds. That'll fix anyone's mblock problem! (Except Kutan.) The same goes for Gogo. I would hate to get my run all the way to one of the tiers, either 2 or 3, and be unable to survive 10 Hits or Calmness. Mblock helps there too. I'll have more Echo Screens, Magicite, and Flame Shlds (Fire 3) than I'll ever be able to use as well.
I still really want a sequence breaker to appear with the sketch glitch. I sketched a random formation on the FC and got a timer that was frozen at 0:00. Now I know that it can 'reach' global flags, wherever that is. Perhaps I could glitch a monster/formation into triggering Kefka's death event? Or Doom Gaze's death event? Maybe just screwing up the camera is enough. If I could 'jump' enough to trigger the statue scene or the final prompt that would be cool too.
As for the highlight video I said in my first post that this game has WICKED music video potential! I'm sure someone will do it.
The side by side movie is AMAZING! I'm seriously biting my nails while watching it. It has it's moments like at 42:50 where we both get in a battle at the exact same time. Watching myself fall behind on the very first battle when there is no reason to kills me though. :( I feel terrible watching myself fall farther and farther behind. For the first half hour we were practically synchronized but Erim was 6 seconds faster. It was so drawn out I can't stand it. And then Erim uses my cursor roulette thing way before I reach Dadaluma so I end up looking like the copycat. I'm at 54 minutes right now and I wish it would end. Erim is right behind me in the Imperial Camp but he has the other two scenarios done while I still have to do Locke's scenario afterward. That's ugly. But then again my side has it's moments too. Despite the fact that my run gets clobbered for the first 80 minutes I still somehow finish the scenarios two seconds earlier. 0_0 So for all those mistakes that I beat myself up over... it's okay? Watching Cyan talk to Kutan/Celes at 1:23 was beautiful. :) So now I love the movie again! Watching Kefka use poison on both Figaro brothers and then watching them both use their limit breaks at the same time was one heckofva moment. Karetaker, thank you so much for encoding this!
It doesn't seem like you copy me. People know in their mind that you went through with it first. It's also funny watching up the Narshe Raid when it's nearly totally synced together.
The side by side movie is AMAZING! I'm seriously biting my nails while watching it. It has it's moments like at 42:50 where we both get in a battle at the exact same time. Watching myself fall behind on the very first battle when there is no reason to kills me though. :( I feel terrible watching myself fall farther and farther behind. For the first half hour we were practically synchronized but Erim was 6 seconds faster. It was so drawn out I can't stand it. And then Erim uses my cursor roulette thing way before I reach Dadaluma so I end up looking like the copycat. I'm at 54 minutes right now and I wish it would end. Erim is right behind me in the Imperial Camp but he has the other two scenarios done while I still have to do Locke's scenario afterward. That's ugly. But then again my side has it's moments too. Despite the fact that my run gets clobbered for the first 80 minutes I still somehow finish the scenarios two seconds earlier. 0_0 So for all those mistakes that I beat myself up over... it's okay? Watching Cyan talk to Kutan/Celes at 1:23 was beautiful. :) So now I love the movie again! Watching Kefka use poison on both Figaro brothers and then watching them both use their limit breaks at the same time was one heckofva moment. Karetaker, thank you so much for encoding this!
Glad you like it. Assuming I have time, I will try to keep the video updated as you two progress. Anyone mind if I keep it as a wmv for now? Any comments are welcome, and great job both of you... Its amazing that this game can go by so fast.
Mblock helps everywhere, as all dodging and such is based off of it. Evade does nothing, nor does blind/dark status.
Having more or less several full sets of Mblock equipment should make kekfas tower a breeze.
In regards to the runs, both have their flaws and awesome moments. But either way they're both good.
In regards to the runs, both have their flaws and awesome moments. But either way they're both good.
I totally agree with that. However, since these are both test runs (right?), combining the strong points of each into a single movie would be totally awesome, wouldn't it? All these time-savers, combined into one movie ... that would be the perfect FF3/6 TAS, in my opinion.
Continue your great work, guys!
I totally agree with that. However, since these are both test runs (right?), combining the strong points of each into a single movie would be totally awesome, wouldn't it? All these time-savers, combined into one movie ... that would be the perfect FF3/6 TAS, in my opinion.
Continue your great work, guys!
For a game this complex, I would expect there to be several generations of TASs. Even DW1 went through quite a few significant improvements.
Keep up the good work, guys!
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Good news! I've discovered something new about the sketch glitch! Master Zed's guide lists the results (per monster formation) of three possible values for $20FF. These three values are the easy ones to obtain: aim at one monster, ditto + previous imp status, and ditto + gained imp status. But one of the many memory addresses corrupted by the sketch glitch can be $20FF if you sketch the right monster. Then if the sktech glitch happens again a new effect will occur!
I've also found a way to escape from some battles that Master Zed marked as inescapable. If Relm selects sketch and then another party member quickly uses a Smoke Bomb then it is possible to use that Smoke Bomb even while the menu is frozen. I'm guessing that whoever tested the sketch glitch 40 million times just used the sketch command, froze the game, and marked the result as 'frozen'.
I've also discovered that the target of the sketch command does not determine which items I get, but it does have some unknown effect. For example I've used the this glitch on the dangerous Harvester + 2xGabbledegak formation. If I target either of the Gabbledegaks I get the normal 'safe' buffer overflow. But if I target the Harvester then the game explodes. (Intangir is another monster who causes his normally safe formation to explode, I think.)
I need to figure out if there are any more good targets besides the Air Force now before I go any further. Relm, like Shadow, does not stick around very long. As soon as she joins after Ultros 3 you walk two screens and trigger a long cut scene. After the cut scene the FC appears and I jump right on. The FC is a one-way ticket to the WOR and no more party members. Relm takes longer than anyone else to get in the WOR, so she's out for good.
Awwww, so you're leaving Relm out of the run? Pooh. She was one of my favorite characters to use in the main party - she's a potent magic user, after all!
But I do agree that you would have to go out of the way just to get Relm, which would add minutes to the speedrun, so...
Poor Relm. :(
Well, here's mine...
Link
MKV format, H.264 video, Vorbis audio. About 320 MB large. Visually the quality is higher.
Is it possible to have the sketch bug modify Kutan to make her more useful? I seem to recall you said you could glitch some Sprint Shoes onto her... any chance of giving her some useful battle commands? (Or a weapon?)
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
DeHackEd wrote:
Is it possible to have the sketch bug modify Kutan to make her more useful? I seem to recall you said you could glitch some Sprint Shoes onto her... any chance of giving her some useful battle commands? (Or a weapon?)
Battle commands won't stick unless I somehow manage to blast memory in the area of $1600. No matter what happens during the overflow I've never seen values that early changed. $1600 is character names, stats, equipment, etc. After $1800 and $1900 is your inventory. At about $1A00 are your character's spells. The corruption usually starts at $2000. The reason the items stick is because changes to your in-battle backpack are copied to your permanent backpack. The same goes for changes to items in a player's left and right hands. Currently I can only put a Phenix Down in Kutan's left hand. But if I keep at it I do think that Sprint Shoes and the Moogle Charm will work no matter which slot they're equipped in.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1123/sketchGlitch3.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1124/sketchGlitch4.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1125/sketchGlitch5.smv
(If a desync occurs use 7E3BFE+F = 0 and 7E1730 = 1. You shouldn't have to though.)
Formation mould number 4 doesn't freeze if you use it against the right monster! Here Relm's battle commands were overwritten with garbage. I'm still trying to find out why, but her second command causes the "advance to next tier" subroutine to load! The formation number that is loaded is formation 4: the Marshal boss battle from the Moggle scene. If I win, I go back to the world map. What I would like instead is to summon formations 335 (Zone Eater), 514 (End Boss), or 463 (Doom Gaze) because those monsters all have effects on death that force a bit of event code to run. If I got sucked into the Zone Eater I don't think I'd loose my airship or all my characters, either. That only happens when you jump from the floating continent...
I finally went and watched both Catastrophe and Erim's runs, and I took some notes. I have not seen a side-by-side, but I am downloading one. Anyway what I wrote down are some possible points. Since I am not nearly as knowledgable about FF6 as the people making the WIPs, I am not claiming that these are actual mistakes. But I think I should say everything I thought of just in case.
First off, my intuition was that the skip Celes trick should be used and the sketch glitch should not. Apparently I am wrong on both counts? I forgot that you would be without sprint shoes for a long time with Kutan, and I probably underestimate what you can do with the sketch glitch.
Anyway, Cat's run first:
+ Narshe cave star thing
+ opera house menu skip
- luck manipulation on fights... I mean how many fights you enter, not luck inside the fights. How many fights you enter looks like how a console run would look, which doesn't seem to me like a good sign.
- too many chests... You probably already realize this by now. I got to thinking though. Some of those chests you picked up, were you following Peter's run on SDA or his speed guide on gamefaqs? Because there were some things I wouldn't do that were in both. Anyway, there's probably even more incentive than the normal RPG to be minimalist, since there's a lot of crazy desperation attack or Joker Doom kind of things you can do.
- too many won fights... I could be missing something, but why beat up all those regular enemies? Is it for the gold? I wouldn't have figured you would have fought any unnecessary fights for EXP or gold.
- A couple fights I didn't understand why you were doing what you did, but I figured you knew what was up. The one I wrote down is that mini-boss fish guy going down the waterfall, where you waited forever on the previous fight and then used the desperation attack on the boss fish. But since Erim did the same thing independently it must be correct. Maybe there's multiple sets of non-boss fish and you have to take all the time anyway? That's the only thing I can think of since it's been a while since I played FF6.
Now for Erim's run. I watched this second and this is in comparison to Cat's run, so I won't say duplicate things:
+ much better luck manipulation in general
+ all the critical hits =)
+ apparently, glitching past the soldier but still getting Celes
- equip more than 1 sprint shoes at a time the first time
- reason for the fights on the mountain?
- also, why waiting before the final guy runs from a fight? Is it to manipulate when the next battle occurred? If so, I couldn't tell. =(
- talking to the guy inside the base to get Genji Glove?
- why not use rod against Tunnel Armor? Maybe there's a better place to use it later, but I doubt it, and by the end of the movie you have Joker Doom.
- worth getting Rhodox rage? I forget exactly what you did by now, but I think you only snared one guy, and it would have been quicker not to get it? I dunno.
One last thing. Does your name come from Lufia? If it does, I bow down before your awesomeness. =) If it doesn't, oh well, you're still awesome. Only not quite as much.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Enhasa wrote:
First off, my intuition was that the skip Celes trick should be used and the sketch glitch should not. Apparently I am wrong on both counts?
It's good to know people are paying attention. :) Skipping Celes can go either way. Nobody knows yet. Skipping her is definitely faster if she can be 'fixed' with the sketch glitch. Skipping her and taking Sabin in the WOR instead is probably also faster. If you look at the side-by-side run Erim is wayyyyyy faster - almost the entirety of Locke's scenario ahead! But then he stops for Celes and I catch right back up. Getting Sabin doesn't take that long. As for the sketch glitch - beats the crap outta me. I'm trying to find a sequence breaker with it that makes it undisputeably better since using it would be popular. (A sequence breaker in FF6 would be HUGE, too.)
- luck manipulation on fights... I mean how many fights you enter, not luck inside the fights. How many fights you enter looks like how a console run would look, which doesn't seem to me like a good sign.
Unpreventable. See Terii Senshi's algorithm FAQ. Notice that Erim and I frequently get into the same battles after the same number of steps even when we take different routes. The best example is in the Magitek Factory. We arrive there at different times and hit all the same random encounters up to Ifrit. I even take extra steps before Ifrit to fight a Flan whereas Erim gets the same Flan formation afterwards. It's very rigged.
- too many chests...
The RunningShoes are almost necessary for Locke to steal items, for the IAF sequence, and to speed up ES/JD or V/D combos against bosses who can't be pre-emptive. That said, I should've picked them up in Zozo. (In Terra's room.) They didn't help on Mt. Koltz or in Sabin's scenario as much as I thought they could. The Hyper Wrist was 'free' with the RunningShoes and the Atlas Armlet raises Edgar's tools damage. I *do* put the Atlas Armlet to use. As for as Earrings/HR go you only need 2, not three. I took the one on the train (fastest), the one in Narshe (2nd fastest), and the one at the Colloseum (not useful). The one in South Figaro would be 2nd fastest if you get Celes. Two Earrings will make a desperation move do 1.5x damage which can either speed up a slow battle or end a deadly battle before you get killed. The Chain Saw is a miracle. For one thing it kills 2 of the four Tentacles. With the Atlas Armlet the Chain Saw also outdamages everything else. Chain Saw + Hero Ring would do even more, but not as much as Aurabolt with two Earrings. (Two is greater than one.) But the bosses I need that damage for have a tendancy to be occasionally immune to pearl-type damage. However, nothing is immune to a Chain Saw. ;)
- too many won fights... I could be missing something, but why beat up all those regular enemies?
Your level is one of the many multipliers for the damage you do. Your level also boosts your HP and your MP. Characters who aren't at least level 8 are totally worthless. LLG players use re-records, sure, but they also go out of they way for hours to power themselves up. Two Earrings is the most I have time to do for my characters. I don't raise gold on the Veldt to buy the best equipment and I don't complete my spell list either. If you enter the Number 128 battle with a level 8 team and no Earrings you will lose. He has 3 parts and you have 3 characters. Level 8 HP gives you just barely enough to survive one hit, maybe. You might have to waste time healing. Erim and I both (independantly) figured out that L10 is the place to be. The only battle I regret was that one lone leafer that I mentioned earlier. Mister "Boss Fish" appears when two conditions have been met: when his friends are dead, and when a minute has passed. Otherwise more friends appear. I pointed this out too.
As for Erim's run, I also equip two Sprint Shoes. Your party splits up later and by equipping several pairs now I can save the trouble of equipping them later. (Saves a couple seconds.) Erim's Returner's Hideout strategy is a secret to him (and me) until he wants to post it. Obviously, he was manipulating something. ;) I guess you missed all the critical hits in my run? I use the Chain Saw and Aurabolt instead of fight whenever possible, since I have them. The only time I pass up a critical hit is in Zozo when I'm fighting Dadaluma. I intentionally take 195 frames longer to punch the boss for exactly 69 damage. :) It's on the first page.
EDIT: fixed omitted words that made my sentences hard to read
equip more than 1 sprint shoes at a time the first time
I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I only equip a pair of shoes on Terra after I buy them, one on Sabin before jumping onto the raft, and one on Locke at the beginning of his scenario. And to Catstrophe: you probably didn't realize, but Locke get's un-equipped as he leaves the party just before the Lete River. Equipping a pair of shoes on him then wasted you time.
And Catastrophe, you could've encountered the Flan battle after Ifrit too, but you chose to encounter it before. Why, I don't know. It's not rigged. If you encounter 5 battles at Mt Koltz, and I encounter 4, I'm bound to encounter the fifth battle eventually on the way to te Hideout, if not, then during one of the scenarios.
