1 2
11 12
Post subject: Kingdom Hearts:Chain of Memories
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 31
Well, I've turned into a huge Kingdom Hearts fan again. Too many hours of my life has been sucked away into this series. Currently I'm working my way through Sora's story, almost at the end on my cart (I've finished 1 and 2 on PS2, with about 180 hours total combined). Thing is, while it's a good tie in, really the best thing about this game is the story (IMHO). Obvesially, it would be skipped. The "second quest" sounds like a really fun part to TAS, not relying on building a great deck since you don't add any cards but boss cards. That would need an SRAM with the game finished however. But before I really start cranking out progress on either quest, the general gameplay is to start the level, use a map cards to make a random rooms until the boss, beat the boss, go up (or down) a floor, then rinse and repeat. Combat would be avoided as much as possible to keep the speed high. Challenging yes, entertaining? Ehhh, I'd love to see it, but if your not a fan I think it would be really boring. =( Should I continue to consider this run or does this fall into the "Game is too boring to TAS" area? I don't know how many people here enjoy the series enough to want to watch the psuedo card game blown through.
Joined: 7/29/2004
Posts: 136
Location: Temple City, CA
I'd watch it simply because I don't have the patience to play through it myself.
"How can you prove you exist? Maybe we don't exist..." -Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy IX)
Post subject: Re: Kingdom Hearts:Chain of Memories
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I'd watch the first quest, but I think the second one is more suited for a regular speedrun than a TAS. With good manipulation of randomness and frame-precise control of attacks (on bosses), I think Sora's quest would definitely not be too long or boring for a TAS.
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 31
Soras is definately more challanging and hense would be more impressive... and dosen't break the SRAM rule. Sounds like a good challange. =) (Or random insanity) So I got to put a few hours into this tonight. So far whats accomplished: From power on to end of FMV intro: about 2 minutes almost frame perfect Dialog lines: very rough 2700... averaged 300 lines in all of floor 1 and 2 Time for text window to fully open, skip text and close: 40 frames Estimated time just on intro and story: 32 minutes (!) I say almost frame perfect as this is my first real attempt at TAS'ing a game I'm getting to know pretty well. I'd estimate that with wait times for animation during the story and skipping as much as I can, the total time is gonna fall in the 1:30 to 3:30 timeframe. For comparison, I'm at 12:30 with 3 worlds to go on my personal copy... but I've done a lot of re-visiting, leveling, deck work and shopping. Still interested? Personally I'd watch it, but I'm biased enough toward the game to not have my opinion matter. I'd like to hear more peoples feedback on if this should be continued. Other things I can add that effects this run: Every level has intro dialog to start, and 3 required rooms you have to go to in order to complete (with more dialog). No sequence breaking that I can find so far. Boss is almost always in the last room, even if not you need to go to all 3 to exit the level... and then you have an outro (with even more dialog!). Repeat for 13 total levels. Pooh's level can be skipped though, just run through. 50% speed, I can read all the dialog quickly, even if multiple lines are said per character. So if you really want to see the story, double the length. Spring Jumps seem to be the fastest travel verticaly in the levels, no difference for x/y. Ladders match that speed, if jumped towards. You can save half a second or so on each and not have to have the "hanging from one hand" animation that takes a little longer. Climbing ladders seems the slowest. There is also a quirk where if you are hanging from your hand on a ledge next to the foreground of the level, you can't jump down - only climb up. Aside from untested movement speed during sleights, dodge rolling is much faster then walking during combat. Almost all combat can be avoided if you have map cards, which means 1 fight per room to progress in the game most likely. But some doors have more then one card needed to pass or even a few cards to total the number (I've seen 30 once or twice)... I hope you can have control of randomness easily, or this might be so long it's unwatchable.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Random: >Estimated time just on intro and story: 32 minutes (!) This is why I can't stand these kinds of games. I've never played this one, but reading this convinced me that I never should.
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
You do know that holding down start for a couple seconds allows you to skip most cutscenes? I was able to save the game at the first save point in under 3 minutes on the cart.
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
I remember being able to do that. I'm sure you can save lots of time with that, and make it much more interesting that way.
Wren
He/Him
Joined: 4/11/2005
Posts: 196
Location: Michigan
I'd watch it, for sure... if only to get my SRAM back so I can play as Riku again. ^_^ Still, it's a fun game, even if I generally dislike card games (aside from Magic The Gathering), and it certainly would be a one-of-a-kind run as far as I know. I'm rather opinionated though... having about 1000 hours into KH1 and 500 in KH2... only about 20 in KHCoM.
<i>A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.</i>
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 31
OOOooooohhhh. Start dosen't work on the delay to start the game, or the opening movie. It *DOES* work on alllll that dialog BS that should be cut from the speedrun anyway. Seems to take roughly 2 seconds to activate... but thats MUCH more acceptable then the minutes it takes to flip through it all. Thank you very very much for pointing that out! And confirming it. As soon as I read it I said "No way" and had to try it out... hehe =) I've been really chewing over doing this even just for myself if it's not up to nesvideo standards. I really want to see it done as fast as inhumanly possible. My standards for this are very high though, so I'm not sure how long it's going to take me. But I'm going to give it a shot. Didn't post yesterday, even though I did put another 4-5 hours into studying the game on my own copy (I'm close to finishing floor 10 now), and on the emu. Here's what I found... --- 1B (Calm Bounty) found in 3-2(Rare needed to find card for 1B3R99+ final story room) Floor determines layout, world determines rewards & treasures. If you make Pooh's world floor 10 (last of 2nd set of world cards) you skip the biggest floor you can. Although it seems like Key to Rewards drops every few fights, and the experience is high. On my cart, I made pooh floor 6 (Doh!). Tests in Randomness: 1-1: First fight always 3 heartless and card Tranquil Darkness(2). Frames, collecting items, swinging keyblade and jumping won't change it. You can't hit doors or leave the room without fighting the frozen heartless. Door takes a 2 so this can't be manipulated and is a required fight. 1-2, things change. First fight always seems to give a 0 card, door takes a 3+ (0 works though - somewhat normal behavior). Interesting. Second Fight is semi-random cards with random numbers on random frames, thats determined at the time of the last strike/death of enemy. Semi-Random since it seems to be drawing from the base Red room pool and Green Meeting Ground, the simplest of the map cards. Reloading a game where I saved right after I hit the attack button but before the enemy got hit and died always yielded the same card. In other words, at the frame you press the attack button to hit and kill, you will always get the same card. However, the save before that where his deathblow would come at different frames would be quite random - but in maybe 10 attempts, I did get G-Meeting Ground(5) about 5 times. I doubt these were on the exact same frame, but possibly all within the second of each other. Does it cycle the map card roughly once a second, or is there just a high probability of getting this card? If you take just the first 0 card and use it, you go to 1-3 with two exits. One is 1+&Beginnings, other is 1+. The first battle in this room also always seems to drop a 0. Upon hitting the Beginnings door, you get another little map tutorial about using key cards. --- All the "Tests in randomness" were done on the same game using a ton of savestates and 50% speed. I plan on revisiting this section with another fresh game just to re-verify it's how I wrote it. I'm also considering even using frame advance and forcing the death blow to happen on the exact frame under different circumstances (different room, different enemy on the map, different lengths in combat) to make sure thats exactly accurate. I'm basically condensing all this into a Game Mechanics FAQ I'm thinking about putting on GameFAQs weither or not I do decide to go all the way with this. There hasen't been any technical documents I've found so far, even with the 6+ walkthroughs posted. I also started a "needed" card list that will have a list of every card I need to advance the fastest through the worlds, as well as my own map for floor 10 since it's not in the FAQ I'm using. Both are still far from complete. (MysticalMoon's FAQ on gameFAQs is the one I'm using. Map is in the same psuedo-3d style his are. I'll post it when I finish labeling it all if anyone is interested.) Thats it so far. Just got home from work, going to play a little bit and work on this some more, but probably not for the hours the last few nights I have been. I have to get up very early tomarrow. =(
Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands
I'd love to see either one of the speedruns. I know the Sora version needs more planning and stuff, but a Riku one would be (iirc) more fluid in playthrough.
http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.
Post subject: Sorry for the lack of updates...
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 31
Well, I've almost finished Sora's compain on DS. Soon I'll be full time working on the TAS. More things with randomness worked out, honestly I wouldn't wish this game on my worst night mare to try to run (hehe) but I'm gonna give it my best shot. More to come, including the first WIP that I deem worthable to start a TAS with.
Post subject: (Thats the 2nd time I've made a new post instead of reply.)
Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 31
DUHHHHHH You'd never now I've been using computers for over 18 years... So a quick update... If anyone wants to give me some competation, feel free. I've gotten a *lot* of games since my last post... at least 15. So slowly working through those has slowed this TAS a bit for me. New SMB is great, btw ;) As well as all the fun stuff you can do on a 2.6 PSP (I had a 1.5, and even upgraded!) Still planning, still working though. Gimmie a few months and you will see a blistering run through =) And well hell, if not... look on SDA, I might do a KH1 or 2 run instead (as they are easier when not frame-perfect) Anyway... enjoy. Thanks for the tip on skipping the texts, again.
Post subject: Please do this video!
Two
Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 3
Location: Lee's Summit
I LOVE this game! I"m not very good at it. I just started over in Sora's quest cause I sold cards I shouldn't have! I wanted 2 do a run of it myself,but I haven't even beaten it yet! I do know that there are lots of things you can do 2 get through it quickly. SInce it's a tool assisted run,you could try 2 get REALLY good cards from the moogle shop and beat these bosses! I have been wanting 2 see a speedrun 4 this game! I registered so I could post here!
English is a language with an objective and no rules. Math is a language with rules and no objectives.
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
This is 4 you 2. Using numbers 2 replace letters looks very stupid. Thank you.
Post subject: Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memeories
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
As the only Kingdom Hearts game avialiable for emulaters.(so far) I'm surprised that no one has TASed the game. Some things that would make the game fun to watch. 1. ahnilating the bosses without so much as lifting a finger in effort. 2. Max level before end of game. I'll do this game when the Wario Land 3 game is completed.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Post subject: Re: Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Joined: 4/11/2006
Posts: 487
Location: North of Russia :[
Rridgway wrote:
You get the idea.
IRC wrote:
00:22:34| <NesVideoAgent> New topic by Rridgway (GBA: Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memeories): http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/5289 00:23:08| <Tompala> Not another topic of Rridgway.. 00:23:12| <moozooh> another one of Rridgway's topics requesting a run? come on. 00:23:21| <Comicalflop> lemme guess: "someone do this game"
Yup, we get the idea ) EDIT: looks like you get the idea too ^_^ that's good.
Chamale
He/Him
Player (178)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada
IIRC, you'll make the Wario Land 3 run after you make your Fire Emblem run, which you'll make after your Winnie the Poo run. Maybe you should make topics as the runs come, not all in one fell swoop.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
That would be a good idea Chamale. Edit: you spelt pooh wrong. Its pooh not poo.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Experienced player (822)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Rridgway wrote:
That would be a good idea Chamale.
However it will only be an idea until it's actually put into practice.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
it is put into practice as of....................................................................................................NOW!!!
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
jaysmad
Other
Experienced player (834)
Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 629
Location: Mom's
Funny... I was just thinking that it would be a good idea to TAS this. BTW, it's memories :)
Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 53
I'll chip in my suggestions on this. Find a way to get some Blizzard cards before attempting Monstro. Those work much better than any other cards or combos I know of at that point in the game (unless you somehow got Reflect Raid, since I don't remember when that becomes available) when it comes to the large Heartless battle. Also, trust me when I say use the Blizzard Raid sleight against Hades in Olympus Coliseum. Just make sure Hades is at the absolute edge of the range of the attack - you can get 3-4 hits that way. Two of that sleight used THAT way could probably take Hades out. Not much else I can say other than good luck.
N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
There's already a topic on this game by the way: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3823 Can somebody merge this?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
well, about reflect raid, you defenitely get it after olimpus coliseum. I think that you get it from a treasure chest.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Joined: 3/22/2013
Posts: 60
I apologize for necroposting in a 6 year old thread. I also go by Ghostwheel on SDA, and a couple others and I have gotten back into breaking down this game. Drazerk and Kyhron have been into single segment, and I've been entertaining the possibility of a segmented run as well. All of us have pitched in some time trying to determine the nature of the RNG, and got about as far, maybe a little farther than Banarak did. About 3 years ago, a TASer asked around on the SDA forums for help, and sadly no one was actively running CoM then. If anyone is still out there working on a TAS, I think we might be able to help each other out. The more people working on solving the RNG, the easier it will be to crack it. I can also provide a lot of segmented strategies and information I've found that would be helpful in the planning of a TAS. That's it for now. Let me know either on here or on the SDA topic if you're interested.
1 2
11 12