I think Tails+Sonic will definitely be faster than Sonic+Tails, at least on act 1. I got something like 0'36''50 with them, and I know that can go lower.
Here is a video beating act 1 in 0'32''47 (!) using Tails.
Graveworm wrote:
I just wondered, what do the blue speed booster thingies do? I mean they look kinda neat, but what purpose do they serve?
The speed trails increase the maximum speed you can reach while running (or probably also rolling) on the ground by about 50%. They're impossible to get if Sonic isn't one of the two players.
EDIT: Look at 030015d8 in the memory viewer, that value is the character's horizontal speed.
(More specific instructions: choose "Tools->Debug->Memory Viewer...", paste 030015d8 address in the top-right box, click Go and it should be the top-left number, make sure "16-bit" and "decimal display" are enabled. The value after it is vertical speed.)
Nitsuja, have you ever considered time attacking the sonic advance games legitimatly? You've really surprised me with these newly found routes and just how low some of these times can really go!
Sonic Advance 3 isn't that hard to time attack compared to the other two :o
Just a comment. Nicely done!
Glad to see this topic has interest in it again
Did you just figure out that Tails/Sonic is the fastest? And you're recording without previous SRAM?
This team should be obvious for a couple of reasons:
1. Tails doesn't encounter the extra characters, so he goes to the world map immediately, instead of going through a cut scene.
2. The final boss. As far as I can tell, tails can hit the final boss with his tails, instead of waiting for the bosses' hands or whatever. (I'm not sure how you fight the final boss without him)
Did you just figure out that Tails/Sonic is the fastest? And you're recording without previous SRAM?
This team should be obvious for a couple of reasons:
1. Tails doesn't encounter the extra characters, so he goes to the world map immediately, instead of going through a cut scene.
2. The final boss. As far as I can tell, tails can hit the final boss with his tails, instead of waiting for the bosses' hands or whatever. (I'm not sure how you fight the final boss without him)
You're acting as if it's necessary to play through the entire game with the same team. The goal will be in-level time primarily and then real-time (EDIT: with the additional restriction that no level will be played twice), in which case it's probably worth it to switch to Sonic+Tails for certain acts. (Route 99 Act 2 looks like a good candidate for this, but I'm still not 100% sure about it.) Also, I'm not sure yet which of the other characters might be worth getting. I used Tails/Sonic because they were faster at getting through the level; out-of-level time is only a secondary concern. Using SRAM to have the characters already unlocked might be something to consider, though.
NintenDan wrote:
Sonic Advance 3 isn't that hard to time attack compared to the other two :o
It probably takes more strategy, with the different character teams and tag actions to choose from. At least, to TAS it might require playing through each level with multiple teams to see who ends up being fastest.
NintenDan wrote:
Nitsuja, have you ever considered time attacking the sonic advance games legitimatly? You've really surprised me with these newly found routes and just how low some of these times can really go!
No, I'm barely able to follow any route through a level without accidentally taking some different route, much less approach any record times. I could probably do it with enough practice, but I'm content to just make it through the game when playing normally.
You're acting as if it's necessary to play through the entire game with the same team. The goal will be in-level time primarily and then real-time, in which case it's probably worth it to switch to Sonic+Tails for certain acts. (Route 99 Act 2 looks like a good candidate for this, but I'm still not 100% sure about it.) Also, I'm not sure yet which of the other characters might be worth getting. I used Tails/Sonic because they were faster at getting through the level; out-of-level time is only a secondary concern. Using SRAM to have the characters already unlocked might be something to consider, though.
Oh, my bad. I didn't know what the overall goal of this speedrun was. I was just going by the fact that almost every other accepted run goes for overall frame count. I guess going level by level is okay.
Still, I'm not sure if it would be entertaining to go back to the "factory ring" to change out the characters between every level.
Still, I'm not sure if it would be entertaining to go back to the "factory ring" to change out the characters between every level.
Actually in the test I did of it, it was a lot faster to reset the game (soft or hard) and go through the title screen again than it was to switch at the factory.
Also, if you look at the TSC record times for this game, most of them were done using Sonic+Tails and not one of them that I can find was done using Tails+Sonic, so it's not at all obvious that Tails+Sonic would be faster overall if only sticking with that team.
Actually in the test I did of it, it was a lot faster to reset the game (soft or hard) and go through the title screen again than it was to switch at the factory.
Also, if you look at the TSC record times for this game, most of them were done using Sonic+Tails and not one of them that I can find was done using Tails+Sonic, so it's not at all obvious that Tails+Sonic would be faster overall if only sticking with that team.
What I was saying about the Tails/Sonic team is pretty much exclusively based on the assumption that you're going for a pure speed, single segment run. I would say that using this team, then going directly from level to level, would be faster.
But as far as individual levels are concerned, I agree that it would be good to use Sonic/Tails in most of them.
edit: oh, and about which team is faster, it seemed to me that when playing the game casually, the Tails/Sonic team seemed to be much easier for speed, just because you can get such a massive speed boost quickly using Sonic as the second character.
edit2:okay, now that I've seen some of the runs on TSC, I can definitely see why sonic is faster, so never mind about what I was saying.
edit: oh, and about which team is faster, it seemed to me that when playing the game casually, the Tails/Sonic team seemed to be much easier for speed, just because you can get such a massive speed boost quickly using Sonic as the second character.
edit2:okay, now that I've seen some of the runs on TSC, I can definitely see why sonic is faster, so never mind about what I was saying.
Did you watch the test run I did of acts 1 and 3 with Tails/Sonic? They can definitely be faster than Sonic/Tails, especially with the "secret" capabilities that Sonic's tag action boost gives Tails (double jump if you press A when you release R, and an even more massive speed boost than normal if you do that or are holding Down when you release R. The speed gain is further amplified by downhill slopes to speeds much faster than Sonic can ever travel, and flying completely preserves that speed).
EDIT: Hmm, it looks like all cut scenes can be skipped by resetting the game (you still keep the new character and beat the level).
Did you watch the test run I did of acts 1 and 3 with Tails/Sonic? They can definitely be faster than Sonic/Tails, especially with the "secret" capabilities that Sonic's tag action boost gives Tails (double jump if you press A when you release R, and an even more massive speed boost than normal if you do that or are holding Down when you release R. The speed gain is further amplified by downhill slopes to speeds much faster than Sonic can ever travel, and flying completely preserves that speed).
I don't have the rom, so I haven't seen the test run. But now you've peaked my interest. I'll watch it at some point.
Oops, it was nowhere. It's here now. Note that both acts need redoing as they still aren't as fast as possible.
Also, I've noticed that Sonic/Cream is better than Sonic/Tails in several ways, too bad Cream is unlocked so late in the game...
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Nice run Nitsuja. I especially liked when Tails grabbed Sonic in the air at high speed.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
The only advantage I have found that the Sonic/Cream has against Sonic/Tails is the boost forward that you get when you press A while in midair. Also Sonic/Cream has many disadvantages compared to Sonic/Tails such as the upward boost from the tag action not being as high and not being able to fly like you can when you use the tag action in the air with Sonic/Tails. The only level I have found where Sonic/Cream is the best team is Cyber Track 1. This is the team that I used to get my record of 39 seconds that I submitted to soniccenter.
Another team that is only good for one level is using Cream/Amy for Chaos Angel 3. Cream is useful because her flying is faster than tails and amy is useful because if you use the tag action while on the ground and then use it again as soon as possible while in the air you can get more vertical height than tails tag action. If you are interested here is the guide for that level (not written by me): http://www.soniccenter.org/guides/sonic_advance_3/guide39. The only thing that I would add to it would be that you can spindash jump and fly off of the first 2 moving platforms which is faster than just jumping and flying off of them.
No, I meant Sonic/Cream. The upward boost is almost as good as Tails' if you time it right, and it can be done more often, and it doesn't slow you down horizontally, and it has no animation time to wait for, and it gives an absolutely enormous boost on springs. Sonic's air-dash move (like the fire shield from Sonic 3) is somewhat useful too.
There's the obvious disadvantage of not being able to actually fly, but it's likely that Sonic/Cream would be faster on acts where that's not necessary but where Tails/Sonic wouldn't be able to move upward quickly enough. (Maybe a good choice for Chaos Angel 1?)
That said, I hadn't really thought about it but Cream/Sonic seems to be better than Tails/Sonic in every way, making it the team of choice when it's possible to get away with only double-jump + flight instead of a high-jump move. EDIT: Well, not every way - Cream slows down when flying, whereas Tails doesn't slow down at all, and Cream doesn't have any mid-air tricks.
I finally got to see your test run Nitsuja. Excellent work!
I have a question though. You say that the Cream/Sonic team can be faster than the Tails/Sonic team, does this mean that for getting the fastest level times, you would need to go back and do the levels again?
Or are you just getting the fastest time based on what characters you have at the time of playing the levels?
Edit: I'm an idiot, there's no redoing levels. Missed that part.
You're acting as if it's necessary to play through the entire game with the same team. The goal will be in-level time primarily and then real-time (EDIT: with the additional restriction that no level will be played twice), in which case it's probably worth it to switch to Sonic+Tails for certain acts. (Route 99 Act 2 looks like a good candidate for this, but I'm still not 100% sure about it.) Also, I'm not sure yet which of the other characters might be worth getting. I used Tails/Sonic because they were faster at getting through the level; out-of-level time is only a secondary concern. Using SRAM to have the characters already unlocked might be something to consider, though.
Joined: 2/15/2005
Posts: 246
Location: Torquay, England
I got bored, so I played through the first zone on 25% speed for the hell of it.
http://rapidshare.de/files/21531282/Sonic_Advance_3.vbm.html
Not really that good of course, but would I be right in saying that this is the best way to beat the Zone 1 Boss, or have I missed something?
I tested the vertical height differences between using the Sonic/Cream team and the Sonic/Tails team tag action and this is what I found. The height from the Sonic/Tails team is about 1.8 times the height that the Sonic/Cream team gets. This height difference is so significant that I think that it is worth the small times delays associated with using it.
There still could be some levels where you don't need this much height and in that case Sonic/Cream would be faster. The only level I have found like this is Cyber Track 1 but there may be others. I tried using Sonic/Cream on Chaos Angel 1 but found that they wouldn't work in some parts of the route and on other parts of the route they were slower when compared to my Sonic/Tails strategy (which is a soniccenter record). I guess I could try to come up with a new route for them on that level but I doubt it would be faster.
I tested the vertical height differences between using the Sonic/Cream team and the Sonic/Tails team tag action and this is what I found. The height from the Sonic/Tails team is about 1.8 times the height that the Sonic/Cream team gets. This height difference is so significant that I think that it is worth the small times delays associated with using it.
No, it's definitely not 1.8 times higher. I get that Tails only throws you 1.27 times higher than Cream. On an upward slope, I got 0.81 times (Cream went higher), and on a downward slope I got 1.35 times. (For slopes it depends on how fast you're running and how steep the slope is though, like it does for normal jumps.)
Not really that good of course, but would I be right in saying that this is the best way to beat the Zone 1 Boss, or have I missed something?
I would guess that this is the fastest way to beat the zone 1 boss. Which means act 2 should be the first act completed, unless it somehow turns out that the Tails/Sonic team isn't at a disadvantage in that act.
So what determines the height you get when using the Sonic/Cream tag action after jumping off ground that isn't sloped? What I have found is it seems to be determined by your running speed and the height of your jump. To get the most height out of the tag action you want to be at your maximum running speed (I wonder if you go even higher when in boost mode) and release the tag action at the top of the jump.
When testing again to see how much height I could get I did manage to get close to the maximum height with the tag action but instead of getting a 90 degree upward angle the best I could do was a 45 degree angle. This probably has to do with the fact that when you are running at that speed there is so much forward momentum. There must be some way to cancel this forward momentum while not losing any height when using the tag action but I haven't figured it out. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have been testing this only in real time.
