Post by Bladegash

Posted: 1/20/2006 6:12 AM

Post subject: Rockman World 2

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

I didn't see any topic for this game so I made a new thread. I think this game may be considered the black sheep of the GB megaman games for it's lousy controls and music. Anyways I have started to make a movie, my progress can be found here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/720/rockmovie_herooftheday.vbm

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 1/20/2006 6:29 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Hmm, I think it would be best to start with either MetalMan or AirMan, since Metal Blade is so useful in WoodMan and Rush Jet is so useful in ClashMan. I had actually started this once, but I got frustrated in MetalMan because item drop manipulation is much more difficult than in the other four games, and MetalMan makes you take a lot of hits if you don't want to stand around too long. It would be nice if I could get big health refills reliably. But here is a run I started that completes AirMan and part of ClashMan: http://www.filespace.org/BagOfMagicFood/AirMan.vbm

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 1/20/2006 6:37 AM

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ventuz

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Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

Area I see are improveable is frame 3860, you could jump left and jump higher (quicker than climbing, trick seen in most megaman/rockman TAS's), and maybe 4800. 4150, you stopped motion for a sec, I was wondering what was it. This game seem like on completely new game engine, motion looks different, scroll differently at boss checkpoint / boss room, you even can stay climbing when you get hit, etc.. Have you tried mess around with U/D and L/R?

Posted: 1/20/2006 6:41 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

One big difference is that you can't stop a slide at all unless you slip off a ledge. This has a good side, though, as when you hit an enemy while sliding, you can't go into the slow hurt movement until your slide's over. That's why I try to always get right next to an enemy before sliding into it, since the slide uses up the damage time. Another annoying thing is that you can't fire a weapon if you have less energy than it normally uses, and most of the weapon energy use amounts were left unchanged from the NES games even though the total energy bar is shorter. So there isn't even enough energy to beat ClashMan with just the Air Shooter.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 1/20/2006 6:46 AM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

hmm, I considered doing clashman after getting the rushjet. Clashman's weakness is the airshooter, but it only does 2 damage per hit. This makes clashman the best starting robot master because the difference between his weakness and regular shots is only 1 hp. Using leaf shield make the airman battle considerably shorter becuase it does 6 damage per hit. This run is probably just a test run anyways, if it turns out that rushjet saves that much time during clashman's stage, I will do airman first.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 1/20/2006 6:47 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Yeah, it might be good to test the different time savings you can get. I'm just afraid I might give up at MetalMan if I can't take all the hits I want to.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/2/2006 9:35 AM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

I am going to give this run a shot. I have recieved important info from Bag and Nach. Nach is going to help me picking the best route so I owe him a lot. But until Nitsuja or anyone who can fix the problem I mentioned in the VBA thread, I cannot work on this run until the error has been fixed. I also watched Hero Of The Day's testrun and that gave me good perspective what I should be doing/aiming for so thank you Sir :)

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 4/2/2006 6:39 PM

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hero_of_the_day

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Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

Your welcome AngerFist :) I am glad to hear you are picking this game up, I know your movie will be of excellent quality. I was wondering what route you plan to use, there are alot of variables to take into account. Starting with Cloudman does seem to be the best option because the rush jet eliminates any waiting during the clashman stage. Here is the route I was going to use before I gave up on this game.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 5/31/2006 12:23 AM

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Unknown_User

Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716

Before anyone starts, you can get MetalMan stuck in a wall for easy hitting.

Posted: 6/2/2006 10:26 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Dark Ice mewtwo / Frozen Dreams / Omega[RPG] / omniswarrior / Shining Shinryuu / Burning Axel / Malroth wrote:

Before anyone starts, you can get MetalMan stuck in a wall for easy hitting.

I would ask you to explain, but you are banned for now! :(

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 8/1/2006 2:44 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

I was working on a serious run for Mega Man 2 after doing a test run. In the test run I beat Clash Man first, and then Metal Man, Wood Man, and Air Man and did part of Top Man's level. In my serious run I beat Clash Man's level. A couple of great time savers were mentioned by Bag of Magic Food. One was about the slide using up the time of the hurt animation. And an even bigger time saver like beating Air Man or Metal Man first. I wish I would've watched Bags movie first before starting my serious run. Before I watched Bags movie, I wasn't sure whether beating Air Man first would save a significant amount of time. Watching Bag's movie inspired me to test to see whether or not you save any time by doing Air Man's level first. I compared how many more frames it took him to beat Air Man then it took me in my test run where I used Wood Man's power. It took him 477 more frames. I then decided to add on to Bag's movie where he ended in Clash Man's level and compare it to my serious run. Originally I was going to do the whole level in Bag's run until I got to a point where the frames lost in the Air Man battle were already made up and more. See for yourselves. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1505/Clash_Man.vbm http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1503/Addition_to_Clash_Mans_level_in_Bags_Air_Man_movie.vbm I'm confident that it would even be faster to start with Metal Man first because you could save at least 477 frames in Air Man's level using the leaf shield. And I didn't beat Metal Man nearly as fast in my test run using the crash bomber as I did Air Man. So I'm going to do my run over again and start with Metal Man.

Posted: 8/1/2006 5:22 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Okay, I wish you luck with MetalMan's level. That one turned me off to running the game because there are so many enemies to slide through that eventually I'll need to manipulate big energy drops, and that's difficult. (Remember that energy refilling doesn't pause the game like in the rest of the series, so there's no penalty to grabbing a refill besides whatever you have to do to get it.)

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 8/1/2006 6:21 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Hey, have you ever considered not sliding through ALL of the spikes. So far I figured out that avoiding just one of the spikes allows me to conserve enough energy to make it through the whole level. That just might be the quickest way to beat the level if I can't figure out how the manipulation trick works in this game.

Posted: 8/1/2006 6:49 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Okay, if you're sure... I just wouldn't want you to waste time waiting for something you don't have to.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 8/4/2006 12:49 AM

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dezbeast

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Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Just completed metal man's level. I got pretty lucky because I happened to stumble into a sequense of inputs that got me a big energy drop right when I needed it so I didn't have to avoid any of the spikes. Although I had to delay a few frames in order to manipulate this, I think this is about as fast as I can get. I still don't know how to manipulate item drops reliably so hopefully there isn't another level like this where you have to take so much damage. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1526/metal_man.vbm

Posted: 8/4/2006 1:54 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Hey, that's pretty good! I might inspect it later to see if there's anything to improve, but for now I'm impressed.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 8/4/2006 2:13 AM

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Bablo

Player (223)

Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399

I always thought starting with Air Man would be faster. The wip looks well optimized anyways.

<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse

Posted: 8/4/2006 4:21 PM

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dezbeast

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Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

Hey, that's pretty good! I might inspect it later to see if there's anything to improve, but for now I'm impressed.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear this.

Posted: 8/4/2006 4:28 PM

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dezbeast

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Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Bablo wrote:

I always thought starting with Air Man would be faster.

I did some calculations to verify which would be faster. Assuming that 2 things are possible, I calculated that I can save 84 frames doing Air Man first as opposed to Metal man if I use all the strategies that I'm aware of. First it must be possible to manipulate an energy drop at the same spot that I did in my wip. Second, it has to be possible to defeat Metal Man in the same amount of frames as it took me to do 4 bars of damage to him. This calculation is based on the amount of time it took Bag to defeat Air Man. Using the Rush Jet can save a significant amount of frames in Metal Mans level if timed correctly. Since I doubt that I can manipulate the big energy drop again, I'm going to stick with the run I'm doing now.

Posted: 8/4/2006 4:39 PM

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Shinryuu

Experienced player (538)

Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707

if im sure sliding is going to be slower if used.. im not 100% sure i have tried to make TAS for this game long time ago.. gotta check movie file soon ;)

Posted: 8/5/2006 6:32 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Ah, I saw what may be a slight problem with the sliding when I turned on the input display: You're not pressing Right+Down+A or Left+Down+A; you're just pressing Down+A, which causes you to lose a pixel each time. See, the game lets you move or shoot on the same frame that you slide for some reason, so you get the fastest movement by adding a horizontal direction to every slide you make. The only time you wouldn't want to do that is if you need to hit a pixel exactly and the slide's two-pixel movements cause you to be off by one pixel. Oh yeah, and I remember the other reason I dreaded this level: Not only could the Clash Bomb save time on MetalMan, but it might also save time on all those minor enemies you had to stop and shoot. But since Clash Bomb wastes so much energy, you'd have to manipulate refills like crazy.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 8/5/2006 11:30 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Yeah, I realized that after I decided to check what inputs you used in your Airman movie because I couldn't time the slides through the devil horns the way you did. I would always end up getting hit and triggering the annoying hurt animation right as I was jumping off of one of the horns because Megaman would stop flashing just before I could get him high enough. After I saw you pressing Right+Down+A, right away I tested to see if it was faster. When I noticed you gain 1 pixel every time you slide, I went back to see just how many frames I lost in all. I counted about 80 times where I slid using only Down+A so in all, I lost about 80 frames. I did that all through Woodman's level also. I was thinking about redoing just Woodman, but if I do Metalman's level again, I don't think there will be any way for me to manipulate the energy drop again. There's also not nearly as much sliding in Metalman's level as there is in Woodman's.

Posted: 8/6/2006 5:45 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Well I decided to try Metal Man's level again this time fixing my sliding problem. I did this mainly to see if I could get the energy drop again, and low and behold I got it right at the same spot. But the only difference is this time I didn't manipulate it. So I didn't have to delay any frames. I think that this game is programmed so that you have more of a chance of getting the energy drops when you have only 2 bars of energy left. I cleared Metal Man's stage 57 frames faster in this one, so I'm going to continue on with this run instead of the more completed one. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1540/Metal_Man_redone.vbm

Posted: 8/7/2006 5:55 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Great... I guess my only other tip for now is to remember to try jumping down ledges versus just sliding off them.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude