Post subject: Free the political prisoners of Finland!
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
At this very moment there are 17 political prisoners sitting in Finnish prisons. In violation to the UN human rights committee's rulings, Finland has not agreed to let go of its backwater traditions. It is still mandatory in Finland for every healthy young man to go into the army to serve for a minimum of 180 days (6 months). If one refuses to go to the army because of a religious or an antimilitaristic conviction, he can choose to perform civil service for the city or government for a period of 395 days (13 months). Because the civil service is unreasonably longer than the minimum service in the army, some people refuse to serve in any way. Many of them also see themselves as being discriminated against because women, Jehova's witnesses and people living in an autonomous area off the coast of Finland do not need to serve. The people who choose not to serve are sentenced to 197 days (6,5 months, half of the civil service) of imprisonment. I am urging anyone who feels that this is wrong to sign a petition to the President of Finland, Tarja Halonen, to free Finland's political prisoners. The petition can be found at http://www.adressit.com/totaalit. For people who are not Finnish: the fields you must fill are from top to bottom: first name, last name, place of residence. Also if you do not want your name seen on the Internet, check "Ei" instead of "Kyllä" from under the last field. Once you have signed, click "Allekirjoita adressi". Thank you for reading my post. Even if you choose not to sign, it is always positive to spread the word that there are people senteced to sit in a prison among criminals because of something they believe.
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Heh i don't sign that. I was in army (6 months) and it's not that bad at all :p
Current Projects: ???
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
It's not about the army being that bad, it's a matter of principle. I do not believe that violence solves anything, which is why I chose civilian service. I didn't have the balls to go to prison and my girlfriend would have killed me but I admire the people who do have the guts to make a stand and go to prison for what they believe in. I feel that it is wrong to punish someone for not wanting to learn how to kill other people.
Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 432
I didn't sign because it feels too weird putting an american address on a finnish petition. I completely agree with you, though.
Post subject: Re: Free the political prisoners of Finland!
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I served 11 months. I do not sign, because I take no interest in the matter.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
If you don't take interest, you will not be very interesting!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
If you don't take interest, you will not be very interesting!
Keep trying, you will reach the funny before the end of the year.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Let me stress that it doesn't matter whether you are Finnish or not. At the moment most of the pressure for Finland to change its laws is actually coming from outside Finland, because Finland is the only EU country where there still are political prisoners. The European comission, the United Nations and Amnesty International have all requested that Finland change its unfair laws so that they are less discriminative against pacifists and antimilitarists. Finland has the longest civil service when compared to the minimum service in the Defense Forces of all Europe. What I'm saying is that the issue is international and it's everybody's responsibility to make this world a better place. And if I wasn't clear about the place of residense you can just write the name of the city or state you live in, you don't have to be more specific.
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 79
We have the same problem. Thankfully I am unwell. Kyrsimys, I will sign that thing with pleasure and a smile on my face. Conscription is evil.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. Every nation should have it's army, especially when there's someone bigger and badder going around and invading countries (if you don't live there you know what country i'm talking about). If it wasn't mandatory then hardly anybody would serve...
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
FODA I almost figured out what country you are talking about, but I was too busy measuring the inches on my fahrenheit thermometer to check the clock that puts the month before the day. Yeah, we suck :(
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Putting the month before the day saves you the trouble of saying the word "of" between them, so it must be the superior way!
Bisqwit wrote:
Keep trying, you will reach the funny before the end of the year.
And then it'll turn out that the funny was inside my back pocket all along! What a goof.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Putting the month before the day saves you the trouble of saying the word "of" between them, so it must be the superior way!
We don't have a word in between the day and the month no matter how you say it, so ours must be the superior way!
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
but there is only 1 July, not 19 Julys
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
JXQ wrote:
FODA I almost figured out what country you are talking about, but I was too busy measuring the inches on my fahrenheit thermometer to check the clock that puts the month before the day. Yeah, we suck :(
Awesome post. Bag, take notes. On topic, In Sweden, The year you turn 18 there's a selection process in which you may or may not get picked to serve. If you do get picked it's mandatory to serve, otherwise you're off the hook. I was very relieved when I was out of there 10 minutes after it started. Checking every "have you had any sort of psychological problems, now or earlier in life?" box sent me to the psychologist right away, and I just repeated that story to her :)
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
This happens in Norway too. Exactly the same, so its no news for me. I did spend 9 months or so in the army, even tho I am a pacifist by principle. The norwegian army is primarily used for Defense, and that is one consolidating point for me, I'd refuse to participate in any army movements outside of Norway, but hey, shooting guns and blowing stuff up is fun. In Norway, and probably Finland, the Army is simply a Kindergarten for teenagers. I dont see anything political about being in the Army. Actually doing your service is probably the least political thing you will ever do. Ironically, once you deny doing your service, YOU invoke the political issue, as you are breaking a given law. If you wish to avoid being a political prisoner, you got 2 alternatives. If you wish to invoke the political alternative. Stop whine. You asked for it. This however, doesn't mean I feel its right to force people into the military or civil service. Quite the contrary. If people do something of free will, they do it better. Until the military learns this, well well well. Kindergarten for teenagers.
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
TNSe wrote:
Ironically, once you deny doing your service, YOU invoke the political issue, as you are breaking a given law.
Oh, so it's like how refusing to take a drug test has worse penalties than failing the test, or something.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Almost everything TNSe writes I feel applies here in Sweden (about the army) too, and his post also echo my thoughts on the matter pretty well. Good post.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Those crazy Scandinavian governments!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Well I think it's a little unfair that women and Jehova's witnesses get a special treatment. What happened to equal rights? Bah. What a stupid system.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Blublu wrote:
Well I think it's a little unfair that women and Jehova's witnesses get a special treatment. What happened to equal rights? Bah. What a stupid system.
yea, the army needs food and clothing, there's a place for women!
JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
FODA wrote:
yea, the army needs food and clothing, there's a place for women!
+25 cool points
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
JXQ wrote:
FODA wrote:
yea, the army needs food and clothing, there's a place for women!
+25 cool points
I tried finding this extremely funny wife joke I read a few days ago to post here, but I couldn't find it :( Anyway, I remember one of the other, slightly less funny ones: Q: Why don't women need watches? A: There's a clock on the stove. Edit: I actually found the joke I was thinking about: Q: How do you fix the dishwasher? A: Slap her.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Isn't Finland an internationally recognized neutral country? The only way the army would ever see battle is if Finland got invaded. So it's not like the Finnish army is a fighting army. Perhaps they teach you how to shoot guns and do physical drills out of tradition, but it's nothing more than tradition. I think a strict environment is good for whipping boys into men. Lord knows I could have used it. To make a long story short I agree that all boys should go to boot camp for a bit after high school. I dunno if it's really necessary for girls. In general they tend to be less of a menace to society, and what if they are pregnant?
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I could sign a petition to end the unconstitutional special treatmen of jehova's witnesses. IMO that special treatment breaks the section 6 of the Finnish constitution: "No one shall, without an acceptable reason, be treated differently from other persons on the ground of sex, age, origin, language, religion, conviction, opinion, health, disability or other reason that concerns his or her person." I do not consider "being a jehova's witness" to be an acceptable reason for special treatment and I consider this special treatment unconstitutional.